Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
The first is is an allegation of outside interference, but its not substantiated...
The second report, more credible, but still will need to be further substantiated. If they are involved, and their is solid evidence, then put it out there and let the world know it.
At this point, no one believes the TTP are funded by RAW...
pakistan's claim and stance will never be enough and credible for some people, no worries. time will tell.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
pakistan's claim and stance will never be enough and credible for some people, no worries. time will tell.
Believe what you like, but at the end of the day, the Taliban are the ones committing these atrocities, and your to busy speculating on who may or may not be supporting them even as they are continuously murdering people across the country. Instead of wasting your time on RAW, why dont you focus on the actual enemy, who is boasting of his "accomplishments" right in front of your nose!
Its insane! if someone is slapping you across the face repeatedly, instead of defending yourself against the immediate assault, you would speculate on who's instructing him too slap you even as he's slapping you!
Lets defend ourselves against the immediate threat, and then figure out whose behind them. Pakistanis would do themselves a favor by not distracting themselves from the actual fight with useless speculation. Conspiracy theories only play into the hands of the TTP, who are free to murder and main whom ever they like, while the fools are off concocting crazy conspiracies to explain it all away and live in denial.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
pakistan's claim and stance will never be enough and credible for some people, no worries. time will tell.
That is because of the spineless and corrupt politicians and so-called leaders who are on the payroll of one foreign power or another at any time.
The so-called 'security' and 'intelligence' agencies are obviously either completely incompetent or corrupt because they have always failed in doing anything useful to protect the interest and integrity of Pakistan.
The dilemma of Pakistan seems to be that there are too many traitors who are ready to be sold to the highest bidder.
And as long as there are traitors available for sale, the enemies of any country, hell-bent on destroying it would keep winning their game.
This was true in the past and will be in the future.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
You think its tit vs tat?
No wonder this issue is not solved for you yet. you cant decide yet which direction to go.
I can quote 50 more cases against one by you but then we would get no where.
Focus on problem at hand, i am only a well wisher coming from a country which knows how terrorism can disturb your lives.
I don't see it as tit for tat. But I am sure hawks and "security" agencies in both countries see it that way.
I agree that the disproportionate numbers of such incidents in the two countries are self-evident.
I am happy that there is largely peace and security in India and wish her continued peace and security. After all it is home to billion-strong humanity. Hopefully the Kashmiris too, will feel secure soon.
But India is not a war-zone. Pakistan and Afghanistan are - Pakistan being the center of a global conspiracy beyond doubt where most, if not all, terror attacks are false flag.
Most Pakistanis rightfully believe that, notwithstanding some naysayers who are ever-ready with the tired and old conspiracy theory accusations.
False flag attacks have been the favourite tool for imperial powers since eternity and will continue to be so and have been amply documented in history. It would be naive to believe otherwise.
Be it blow-back 30 years later, for being a tool in America's bid to defeat the USSR in Afghanistan, Pakistan is paying the price today. Pakistanis need to get their house in order soon by curbing extremism and militancy and at the same time forcefully exposing the international conspiracies against it. That is easier said than done but hopefully it will be done soon.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
My canceled trip to Pakistan’s Fairy Meadow is the least of it
My canceled trip to Pakistan’s Fairy Meadow is the least of it
By Umema Aimen, Published: June 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm
LAHORE, Pakistan – It was just a days ago that my dad and I were excitedly planning our family vacation to Fairy Meadow. The lush green meadows are just a little over a mile’s hike away from the base camp in the western end of the Himalayan range where the majestic Nanga Parbat, ninth highest mountain in the world, has attracted mountaineers from across the world. Its exceedingly difficult climb earned it the nickname “Killer Mountain.”
For the longest time, I have longed to lose myself in the exotic meadow where fairies are said to live. But I won’t be going now, of course, after the recent attack in which terrorists stormed into a hotel at the base camp and murdered 10 people, nine of them foreign tourists.
The Taliban — Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, or TTP — has, as usual, taken responsibility for the attack that killed Ukranian, Chinese and American visitors to my country. The area has been sealed, and the army is on a manhunt to find those responsible. While the attack has proven once again how unsafe Pakistan is for foreign nationals, for us, the Pakistanis, it is just another tragedy.
Just last week, militants first attacked a women’s university in Quetta and then stormed into the hospital where the injured were taken. Twenty-five people, including four nurses and the deputy commissioner, lost their lives in that brutal assault. On May 21, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a mosque during Friday prayers, killing at least 15 people and injuring dozens more in Peshawar. These horrific attacks by the Taliban always send ripples of fear and shock across the world, and rightly so.
It is so easy to blame the Taliban for all this bloodshed — and again, quite correctly. Their actions and ideology should be condemned without any hesitation or equivocation. Any arguments justifying or approving harm and death of innocent civilians are inhumane and morally bankrupt.
Yet we’re also keenly aware that U.S. drone strikes that target militants do kill innocent civilians in the process. The death of civilians naturally breeds anger and resentment in areas where drone strikes are carried out, making them a recruiting ground for the Taliban. And while the Obama administration and the Pakistani government are both working against the TTP, they often interfere and disrupt each other’s strategies out of mutual distrust.
Somehow, despite the attacks, we managed to elect a democratic government on May 11, and the new government promptly announced its interest in trying to start a dialogue with the TTP to find a political solution. I understand the argument that it is reprehensible to negotiate with a group of morally depraved people who have caused so much death and destruction.
But our counter-insurgency operations have not succeeded, despite the deaths of thousands in our military, making political dialogue a necessity. When a U.S. drone strike killed TTP’s second-in-command, Waliur Rahman, on May 29, the enraged Taliban withdrew its offer for peace talks and vowed revenge on the Pakistani state. Even though he was killed in a U.S. drone strike, the TTP alleges the strike was carried out in cooperation with the Pakistani government, and my country has been attacked mercilessly ever since.
The new government did condemn the drone strikes in Pakistan, which our officials see as a breach of our sovereignty. And every time a senior Taliban leader is killed, a new one steps forward. Since the TTP is itself divided, each new leader takes the negotiation process back to square one, too.
Whether peace talks with Rehman might have succeeded is an irrelevant question now. The new TTP leadership is too enraged for any peace talks, and it’s innocent civilians and tourists who once more pay the price. As long as that’s the case, who knows when the fairies will return to their meadow — or when my family will get to visit them.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
Believe what you like, but at the end of the day, the Taliban are the ones committing these atrocities, and your to busy speculating on who may or may not be supporting them even as they are continuously murdering people across the country. Instead of wasting your time on RAW, why dont you focus on the actual enemy, who is boasting of his "accomplishments" right in front of your nose!
Its insane! if someone is slapping you across the face repeatedly, instead of defending yourself against the immediate assault, you would speculate on who's instructing him too slap you even as he's slapping you!
Lets defend ourselves against the immediate threat, and then figure out whose behind them. Pakistanis would do themselves a favor by not distracting themselves from the actual fight with useless speculation. Conspiracy theories only play into the hands of the TTP, who are free to murder and main whom ever they like, while the fools are off concocting crazy conspiracies to explain it all away and live in denial.
for your kind information, its gorilla war, insurgency, not a conventional war where you take your enemy head-on and defeat them with firepower. In this war, identifying the supporters of insurgency, exposing them, and eliminating their links are more vital than actually using the firepower against the gorillas, who hit and run.
as soon as the supply lines dry, supporters' funding and replenishment of arms exposed, these killers will soon start dying down, a fierce military operation in that case will be more fruitful.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
That is because of the spineless and corrupt politicians and so-called leaders who are on the payroll of one foreign power or another at any time.
The so-called 'security' and 'intelligence' agencies are obviously either completely incompetent or corrupt because they have always failed in doing anything useful to protect the interest and integrity of Pakistan.
The dilemma of Pakistan seems to be that there are too many traitors who are ready to be sold to the highest bidder.
And as long as there are traitors available for sale, the enemies of any country, hell-bent on destroying it would keep winning their game. This was true in the past and will be in the future.
that's one of the main reasons none of our policies (if any) work the way intended, we have too many traitors, they are everywhere, in military, intelligence agencies, politics, media. on top of that, our general public is also not a very honest one at that, we all are part of it and we make it what it is today
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
I posted this in another thread, probably relevant here as well
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
for your kind information, its gorilla war, insurgency, not a conventional war where you take your enemy head-on and defeat them with firepower. In this war, identifying the supporters of insurgency, exposing them, and eliminating their links are more vital than actually using the firepower against the gorillas, who hit and run.
as soon as the supply lines dry, supporters' funding and replenishment of arms exposed, these killers will soon start dying down, a fierce military operation in that case will be more fruitful.
If they could clear Swat of these a-holes and clear South Waziristan of these same sobs and maintain control over these areas, and not to mention clearing out other areas of the FATA, then the excuse that a conventional army cannot fight this war is complete nonsense.
And even if it is a sort of front in which conventional tactics dont work, its the role of the Army to adapt. Armies across the world adapt to the environment they are in. If Pakistans army is so rigid, then its an Army just waiting to fail.
At the very least, the Army should deprive these terrorists of a safe haven from where they can easily operate... In North Waziristan, these sobs are free and easy.. Not a care in the world other then the drones. Force the terrorists into hiding like Fazlullah of Swat. The Army is NOT attacking their base of operation, that is the problem. If you keep these scum on their toes, constantly on the move, then planning attacks across the country becomes that much more difficult, they cannot easily train legions of suicide bombers if they arent allowed any safe haven from which to do such training...
And since when are guns and money hard to come by? Pakistan is awash in weapons, there is extortion going on, kidnapping, bank robbery, there is from what i hear even money coming from rich arabs...
Calling it a guerilla war which our Army of 180 million men, eating up the lions share of GDP at the expense of all other sectors, cannot fight, is a convenient excuse for inaction. If the Army cant do the job it exists to do, then whats the point of even having an army? We should disband such an army, save the money thats spent on them and spend it on building hospitals, training doctors to treat the victims of terrorists, and industrial strength water hoses to wash the blood of the streets after every suicide bombing.
Seriously man, no drones, no fighting the terrorists ourselves, what the hell do you want to do? The backers you claim exist, arent going away, so your idea of id'ing them and stopping the flow hasnt worked, meanwhile people are being killed and the country is going down the tube.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
Army of 180 million men ?
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
If they could clear Swat of these a-holes and clear South Waziristan of these same sobs and maintain control over these areas, and not to mention clearing out other areas of the FATA, then the excuse that a conventional army cannot fight this war is complete nonsense.
I believe in Swat or N Waziristan they were out in the open "ruling" the area with visible occupancy so it was relatively easier to target them, but otherwise if they are hidden then you can't shoot in the dark with civilian population around them.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
If they could clear Swat of these a-holes and clear South Waziristan of these same sobs and maintain control over these areas, and not to mention clearing out other areas of the FATA, then the excuse that a conventional army cannot fight this war is complete nonsense.
And even if it is a sort of front in which conventional tactics dont work, its the role of the Army to adapt. Armies across the world adapt to the environment they are in. If Pakistans army is so rigid, then its an Army just waiting to fail.
At the very least, the Army should deprive these terrorists of a safe haven from where they can easily operate... In North Waziristan, these sobs are free and easy.. Not a care in the world other then the drones. Force the terrorists into hiding like Fazlullah of Swat. The Army is NOT attacking their base of operation, that is the problem. If you keep these scum on their toes, constantly on the move, then planning attacks across the country becomes that much more difficult, they cannot easily train legions of suicide bombers if they arent allowed any safe haven from which to do such training...
And since when are guns and money hard to come by? Pakistan is awash in weapons, there is extortion going on, kidnapping, bank robbery, there is from what i hear even money coming from rich arabs...
Calling it a guerilla war which our Army of 180 million men, eating up the lions share of GDP at the expense of all other sectors, cannot fight, is a convenient excuse for inaction. If the Army cant do the job it exists to do, then whats the point of even having an army?
Is that why world's most powerful nation with oh so superior army could not isolate (let alone eliminate, ha!) bunch of tribal rag tags? They clearly did adapt to the situation right, didn't they?
Americans such as yourself should start off by disbanding and tomato chucking the yankee Army who are not just set for a failing but have already failed, massively.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
If they could clear Swat of these a-holes and clear South Waziristan of these same sobs and maintain control over these areas, and not to mention clearing out other areas of the FATA, then the excuse that a conventional army cannot fight this war is complete nonsense.
And even if it is a sort of front in which conventional tactics dont work, its the role of the Army to adapt. Armies across the world adapt to the environment they are in. If Pakistans army is so rigid, then its an Army just waiting to fail.
At the very least, the Army should deprive these terrorists of a safe haven from where they can easily operate... In North Waziristan, these sobs are free and easy.. Not a care in the world other then the drones. Force the terrorists into hiding like Fazlullah of Swat. The Army is NOT attacking their base of operation, that is the problem. If you keep these scum on their toes, constantly on the move, then planning attacks across the country becomes that much more difficult, they cannot easily train legions of suicide bombers if they arent allowed any safe haven from which to do such training...
And since when are guns and money hard to come by? Pakistan is awash in weapons, there is extortion going on, kidnapping, bank robbery, there is from what i hear even money coming from rich arabs...
Calling it a guerilla war which our Army of 180 million men, eating up the lions share of GDP at the expense of all other sectors, cannot fight, is a convenient excuse for inaction. If the Army cant do the job it exists to do, then whats the point of even having an army? We should disband such an army, save the money thats spent on them and spend it on building hospitals, training doctors to treat the victims of terrorists, and industrial strength water hoses to wash the blood of the streets after every suicide bombing.
Seriously man, no drones, no fighting the terrorists ourselves, what the hell do you want to do? The backers you claim exist, arent going away, so your idea of id'ing them and stopping the flow hasnt worked, meanwhile people are being killed and the country is going down the tube.
you can write good fiction, but the story you have written here is very far from reality, nothing much to answer.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
Is that why world's most powerful nation with oh so superior army could not isolate (let alone eliminate, ha!) bunch of tribal rag tags? They clearly did adapt to the situation right, didn't they?
Good point, Angelina.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
tourism will end in GB now...sad for the locals, but what can be done when there's no writ of the government.
Thats ok tourists can go to Raiwind farms safari and enjoy the animals inside and pet the domesticated ones as well. They can also enjoy lahore flyover rollercoaster rides in the theme park called Noraland.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
^raiwand k qareeb bhataknay ki ijazat Nhi hai tourists can enjoy metro and peeli taxis
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
Read somewhere on TV that 25 new tourists/mountaineers have arrived in Pakistan to show support and carry on with mountain-climbing.
Can someone confirm ?
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
Is that why world's most powerful nation with oh so superior army could not isolate (let alone eliminate, ha!) bunch of tribal rag tags? They clearly did adapt to the situation right, didn't they?
Americans such as yourself should start off by disbanding and tomato chucking the yankee Army who are not just set for a failing but have already failed, massively.
the yanks and the rest of nato have zero need or desire to enforce their sovereignty for anything more than closing the osama chapter with the least risk to their men. soon they will make their exit through the path of least resistance to the other side of the planet.
that is the difference. it is not their land, nor do their civil society have to live with these jangali janwars. for pakistani army, the stakes are a lot higher. can they really afford to not fight?
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
the yanks and the rest of nato have zero need or desire to enforce their sovereignty for anything more than closing the osama chapter with the least risk to their men. soon they will make their exit through the path of least resistance to the other side of the planet.
that is the difference. it is not their land, nor do their civil society have to live with these jangali janwars. for pakistani army, the stakes are a lot higher. can they really afford to not fight?
But thats not what they or their supporters told us?
One can come with all sorts of excuses and redundant explanations why the Yanks failed but thats not the point, the point is America was at war with Taliban for 12 long years, they pledged to defeat them, they were considered a serious threat and undisputed enemy number one, yet they with all the man power and technical might and world wide support they couldn't even suppress a tribal resistance in a God's forgotten land.
The stakes are higher for Pakistan therefore they must think of reasonable and effective strategy to deal with the problem. Unlike the yanks, Pak army cannot really afford to roam around the country firing guns for another 12 years. Surely the events of 71, the issue of Balochistan and the operations against MQM should've provided a learning lesson.
Re: 10 tourists assassinated in Fairy Meadows (Gilgit)
they did defeat the taliban regime in days. which is why pakistan handed over even the taliban ambassador mullah zaeef to the US as a prisoner.
what US hasn't managed to do is bring stability and peace in afghanistan. but whose loss is that really?