i was watching Alim online and this guy called to say he has been living with this girl and now they want to get married. both shia and sunni molvis said that if you had sex with the person before marrying them, you can never marry them
now i was thinkin that how many muslim couples go out before shadi and some even lose their virginity at the spur of the moment..they probably don’t even realize that according to Islam, their partner is haram for them
so young guys and gals…if u are in love and wanna marry the person..please don’t hit the home run before shadi..but if u dont care bout islam at all phir jitnay maarnay hain maartay raho i guess
and they based this on which hadith and Quran's Ayah. If they dont have any then its just their opinion and word, no holy importance should be attached to these fatwas.
and the big question is....
if those guys and gals had any concern for what Islam says why wud they being doing it in the first place....
a man and woman wre caught making love in a car....
the case was postponed till after two months and they bot got married....
hence their lawyer argued that they r now a married couple and shud not be punished....
the judge fined the man 50 dinars (roughly 130 dollars) and the woman 100 dinars for obscene acts in public....
thats in a muslim country (bahrain).... imagine that!!!!
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*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
that if you had sex with the person before marrying them, you can never marry them
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This is the first time I have heard such a thing. With no back-up, I can't comment more.
However, isn't there a prediction in Islam that for 'chaste' men, there are 'chaste' women, and for 'impure' men there are 'impure' women. Interestingly the molvis of Aalim Online are saying that the man can have any other 'impure' woman, but not the one he got 'impured' with. Strange... but.. I dunno...
kaleem, i don't think they gave any references but i will try to find it
armughal, some people make mistakes but they still care about their religion..i am just not sure if they realize the true punishment for this kind of mistake in islam
will have to go home and look it up in the bukhari to see if any hadith is available....
and i dont have any other hadith book (in print) so cant check others....
Me too. I've heard any such thing for the first time. Infact, I read somewhere long time ago that if you do "sin" with your "to-be" and marry, it's considered less sinful. Well, I wacthed a few episodes of Alim online in FEB and liked but this thing has made me doubtful about it.
Did they refer to any ayahs from Quran to support it???
It is reported that Marthad ibn Abu Marthad asked the Prophet's permission to marry a prostitute named 'Anaq with whom he had relations during the pre-Islamic period. The Prophet (peace be on him) did not give him an answer until Allah revealed, The fornicator shall not marry anyone except a fornicatress or an idolatress, and the fornicatress shall not marry anyone but a fornicator or an idolater, and that (marrying them) is haram for the Believers. (24:3)
The Prophet (peace be on him) then recited this verse to Marthad and said, "Do not marry her." *(This story is reported by Abu Daoud, al-Nisai, and al-Tirmidhi.) *
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
It is reported that Marthad ibn Abu Marthad asked the Prophet's permission to marry a prostitute named 'Anaq with whom he had relations during the pre-Islamic period.
The Prophet (peace be on him) then recited this verse to Marthad and said, "Do not marry her."
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Since Quran says "The fornicator shall not marry anyone except a fornicatress or an idolatress, and the fornicatress shall not marry anyone but a fornicator or an idolater, and that (marrying them) is haram for the Believers", so I am assuming Marthad did not had sexual relations with that woman.
So thats why he was asked to not marry her (even if he did had sexual relations, that would be pre-Islamic time and not carried on after he embraced Islam - all gunah ma'af). Otherwise Quran is clear that for fornicators should marry fornicatress.
In this case, isn't the guy pretty much admitting to be a fornicator?
Seems to me that there is a logic error, somewhere. Either in my understanding or that of the two molvis on Aaalim Online. If an admitted fornicator wants to marry an admitted fornicatress, whats to stop them?
How is it relevant to the situation described above?? We are not talking about prostitutes here. Two people who plan to marry and commit sin with each other. Alim online says they cannot marry is they did.
The question is very simple and straight. Why are you confusing it by bringing in such hadeed related to "prostitution"?? And remember we are looking for a reference from QURAN!!!
Are there any ayahs from Quran to support what Alim online said???
he sinned before accepting Islam....
after accepting Islam, he's supposed to be clear from the sins he had done....
the woman, still being a prostitute, was not 'pure' and hence, i think, the Prophet (saw) disapproved of the marriage....
was the closest thing i got to disapproval of marriage with someone who u have had illegal sexual relation....
But it's talking about marrying a prostitute. Not a couple who have relation with each other only.
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
he sinned before accepting Islam....
after accepting Islam, he's supposed to be clear from the sins he had done....
the woman, still being a prostitute, was not 'pure' and hence, i think, the Prophet (saw) disapproved of the marriage....
was the closest thing i got to disapproval of marriage with someone who u have had illegal sexual relation....
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The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable.
Islam is not a religion of confusion or un-necessary hardship. If both parties sincerely repent and do Taubah, then I don't think that anyone can stop them marrying, because part of the Taubah would be Nikah in line with the third and fifth ayat of this Surah!
Zinah is a major sin in Islam, but it is not en par with Shirk which is unforgiveable.
Sheraz it might be a good idea to send an e-mail to Alim Online at geo and reference the surah Sholay has posted so they can make the correction. I had watched Alim online once a couple of weeks ago and they just say things w/out referencing any surah or hadeeth and it really really bothered me that people believed blindly what these two so called 'alims' were saying without researching it on their own.
The topic I had watched was about doing istikhara vs. obeying your parents. The lady asked if istikhara said one thing and parents said another thing, who should she obey? And the 'alims' said the parents. I have my doubts about their responses.
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*Originally posted by Rukhsarbibi: *
The lady asked if istikhara said one thing and parents said another thing, who should she obey? And the 'alims' said the parents. I have my doubts about their responses.
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u cud have misunderstood istikhara....
but a parents' command is definitely wajib to be followed....
u cant disobey them....
Two queries:
a) If A had sex with B before marriage, both are now 'fornicators'. And, if a fornicator is for a fornicatoress, what stops A & B from getting married?
b) If C has had sex with his first wife, is it okay then for him to take a virgin as his second wife? If a pure man is for a pure woman, is there a conflict?
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*Originally posted by sholay: *
3. Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable.
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I've always understood this to mean as follows: Suppose you have avoided sex before marriage, then get married, and later your wife / husband admits that she / he has had sex before marriage with someone else. Does this mean that you rmarriage to her / him is invalidated, since you would be a person of purity and your spouse would be one of impurity?
Similarly, if you know a person who has fornicated unlawfully, and you know that person is getting married to someone who is pure, are you obliged to reveal the person's sin publically to try and stop the marriage?