Statue is often not allowed here so we will have to choose a photo. Can you guide which photo ? Uniformed or other dress ?
Also print out Lanati Altaf Hussein BHAI ka photo, Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto, Mush, Shahbaz..............
Also print out Lanati Altaf Hussein BHAI ka photo, Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto, Mush, Shahbaz..............
Nice . Than we have to built a wall out side every Public L....
But Zia and his Family is not only Altaf,Nawaz Sharif,Sh..baz and 'Gujrati's.
Their are many others and Mullahs.
So better leave him alone.
Re: Ziaul Haq to be deleted as president from history
^^ CP and AP.
With your approach based on
An eye for an eye,
Will make the whole of Pakistan blind.
If you kill, maim, destroy ALL of our leaders and generals, then we will end up importing USA and NATO troops in our country.
Because Afghans were too tribal to sit down and resolve their differences amongst each other.
The result was the utter loss of Afghanistan to gora boots.
Sometimes it is good to look at the bad apples in the neighborhood, and learn some lesson from their hashar nashar.
Learn to tolerate your leaders as much as you can. Because Allah swt says, the leaders come from amongst you.
Punish only those who become extremists like Talibots.
If we continue creating anarchy,
Then allah he hafiz.
Na rahay ga baans, aur na bajay gi bansary.
Punish only those who become extremists like Talibots.
and the other EXTREME is accepted by you? The extreme where our leaders accept the kuffar way of life, bend over for them, let them enter our countries, kill our citizens. Yes Poshy loves that extreme.
He didn't remove the thug/ruler, he simply 'replaced' him by himself. ZAB destroyed country in other sense while Ziaul Haq laid the destructive foundation of which we are seeing results today.
That's not entirely true. The policy of Strategic Depth, afaik, was a BB policy, not a ZuH policy.
The party in power has much to answer for with respect to the Taliban.
That's not entirely true. The policy of Strategic Depth, afaik, was a BB policy, not a ZuH policy.
The party in power has much to answer for with respect to the Taliban.
Pics,
bro!
our defense polices aren't made by any modern day lowly politiko. They are too immature to think beyond their own nose.
Afghan/India policies have been set in place since the time of Jinnah, Liaqat, Suhrawardy etc. And then they have been faithfully followed by the GHQ.
Zulfi, BB, Zardari, Mians, and chaudries never had brains to figure out the situation on our borders.
And thus they should not be associated with any Af-Pak policy.
Even now, Zardari/Gilani totally failed to comprehend the finer aspects of Pak-Af, and the Hillary-gang had to go back to GHQ with their heads bowed.
And btw we should not be ashamed of any policy towards Afghanis or Indians or Iranians.
None of these neighbors have offered us even few grains in a plate.
Awghans from day 1 have tried their bloody best to destabilize 20 times larger neighbor aka Pakistan, even when we never had any dispute with them.
Big Sirdars and Khans sitting in Kabul do not deserve our sympathy.
If they fit in our strategy, then great. Otherwise sorry.
p.s. Afghan awam on the other hand deserve all the love and care from Pakistanis. I wish we could start a program like peace corps where our youth could go to Afghanistan to volunteer and help poor Afghani masses with whatever we have.
The same goes for helping our own Awam, brothers and sisters in Balochistan, interior Sindh, and FATA.
I have a few comments to make. It seems some posters are blinded by their hatred for Zia
Firstly calling people who are dead, monster etc. is distasteful and improper
Secondly the only two Pak leaders I admire are Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan. They were men with integrity. They were honest and sincere to our country. Rumour is LAK's widow did not have a house of her own to move into after her husband's assassination. And Liaqat Ali Khan hailed from a Nawab family and was the Prime Minister of the country!
Those that followed them, be it blood-sucking feudal politicians (who treat politics like family business) or self-seeking military dictators, they were all dishonest and corrupt.
Blaming all of today's islamic extremism on Zia is just convenient. The truth is Pakistanis are a closed society when compared with countries like Morrocco, Tunisia, Malaysia and Indonesia. Most Pakistanis hold very rigid and intolerant views when it comes to religion. Most of us pray or fast out of fear because that is how we are conditioned by the society from a very young age.... yeh nahin karo gey to woh ho jayega....woh nahin karo ge to yeh ho jaye! Many of us are still not comfortable with the idea of women wearing trousers, jeans skirts etc. It is not what you wear but how you wear it that is important. Infact I find some of British-born Pakistanis more 'ghoomey huey' than Pakistanis like myself born and brought up in Pakistan - hence the 2005 London bombings and failed bomb attack at Glasgow airport. So let's not kid ourselves by pretending that we are a progressive society because we are not. Most Pakistanis are deeply conservative. Zia or no Zia, we would have still seen this rise of religious extremism post 9/11 because some of us are just looking for an excuse to exploit Islam. Infact some of us act like thekedars of Islam more than the Arabs themselves
True Zia had his weak points and he used Islamism for his own interests, to strengthen his grip on power etc. but there was no Taliban-style compulsion on anyone to pray or fast. People were still free to do whatever they wanted to in their private lives. PTV had some of the best and most enlightened programmes in our history incl. Fifty Fifty, Ankahi, Tanhayian, Show Time, Waris, Andhera Ujala etc. Nazia-Zoheb were a regular feature on PTV esp. during the (hoax) 1985 referendum and despite some voices being raised from religious quarters about brother and sister singing together, Zia did not ban them. Those were also some of Pak sports best years. We were the world champions in hockey and Squash simultaneously for almost a decade and our cricket rose thanks to stalwarts Imran Khan and Miandad. Now it may all be purely down to good fortune but Zia did appoint the right people in administrative posts such as Nur Khan. And look at Pak sports right now. We finished last in the hockey world cup, are ranked 7th out of 8 established cricketing nations and we are no longer a force in world squash! PIA was in much better shape then than it is now.
And compare how Zia handled the post soviet-invasion scenario with how Musharraf tackled the fall out of 9/11. While Zia dealt with the Americans intelligently and tactfully, Musharraf literally dropped his pants and merely took dictation from them. He turned our country into a warzone. Suicide bombings and beheadings were previously unheard of. Musharraf and Zardari are probably the two biggest US boot-lickers in our history. And probably no leader in modern history (other than Mush) is guilty of selling his own people for money. Yes we must root out extremists but we should be fighting this war on our own terms. Pak army should be in charge of drones etc. The rise of Taliban extremism happened during MMA's 5-year government (in Musharraf's time) who literally turned a blind eye to whatever these nutcases were doing in FATA.
Ousting and hanging of an elected PM was a crime but what ZAB did is an even bigger crime IMO. True our system was partly to blame and the Bengalis felt discriminated against but ZAB was the single biggest reason why we lost East Pakistan. It was not Mujeeb or the COAS of the time but 'tum udhar hum idhar' slogan was raised by none other than ZAB himself. Mujeeb was the chosen leader and ZAB should have had the commonsense and decency to transfer power to the elected PM. He realised he could not become PM as long as East Pakistanis/Bengalis were part of Pakistan. Hence he exploited the whole Bengali situation in order to come to power. I am often amused by how posters here conveniently ignore the important fact that ZAB broke Pakistan! Infact that is just how most of us are. If we like someone we are prepared to ignore their failings and wrongdoings and if we hate someone we are not even willing to admit that although the person was bad overall, he did do certain things better than others, did get a few things right etc.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Yes support for these jihadi outfits was a mistake by Zia but I do believe that they were the need of the hour. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that without these mujahideen, the soviets would have just marched into Pakistan. And really there was no problem from these jihadi outfits until 9/11 happened. I give Zia credit for keeping the soviets at bay and keeping Pakistan safe during the soviet occupation of Afghanistan. We should not be so thankless. And despite the constant troubles on our western borders, there was stability in Pakistan during Zia's 11-year rule, Rupee was 25-32 to a pound. Inflation was under control and there was generally peace in Pakistan, no sectarian or ethnic killings etc. And even though I do not admire Musharraf I thought he ruled Pakistan well from 1999 to 2002/3 but then kursi became more important and the rest as they say is history. Likewise I give ZAB and NS credit for initiating Pakistan's nuclear programme and building Lahore-Islamabad motorway (one of the best projects in our country's history) respectively
(ps. blindly hating someone is bad!)
Re: Ziaul Haq to be deleted as president from history
Great.
Zia created MQM, KK culture. Killing culture. Jehadi culture. Heroen Culture and thousand other thing like this,
Yes you are right
He did this very tactfully.
He did not create them apart from MQM. All those other things were a direct result of what was going on in Afghanistan. Just like we saw a rise of taliban extremism after 9/11 and esp. after invasion of FATA. You have to see things in perspective. When you have close to 4 million uninvited guests in your country such things will and can happen. We inherited the kalashnikov and drug culture from immigrant Afghanis, not the other way around. Even if a progressive leader like Jinnah had been the leader we might have still seen this kalashnikov culture. It is another matter that he might have dealt with it differently.
Most importantly doing such superficial things as deleting someone's name from history (something which could still be challenged in/by the supreme court) will not amount to anything until and unless our elected leaders learn from their past mistakes and address the core issues.
After forced resignation of Gen (r) Jahangir Karamat, NS mistakenly thought he was untouchable now. It took Karamat's successor barely a few months to dethrone him. The fact is both ZAB and NS were acting more like civilian dictators themselves.
If it is not Kayani's successor it might be his successor's successor. The cycle w'd continue till such time the elected representatives mend their ways and provide good governance to the people. I am just sick and tired of seeing the same corrupt faces get elected again and again.
True Zia had his weak points and he used Islamism for his own interests, to strengthen his grip on power etc. but there was no Taliban-style compulsion on anyone to pray or fast. People were still free to do whatever they wanted to in their private lives. PTV had some of the best and most enlightened programmes in our history incl. Fifty Fifty, Ankahi, Tanhayian, Show Time, Waris, Andhera Ujala etc. Nazia-Zoheb were a regular feature on PTV esp. during the (hoax) 1985 referendum and despite some voices being raised from religious quarters about brother and sister singing together, Zia did not ban them. Those were also some of Pak sports best years. We were the world champions in hockey and Squash simultaneously for almost a decade and our cricket rose thanks to stalwarts Imran Khan and Miandad. Now it may all be purely down to good fortune but Zia did appoint the right people in administrative posts such as Nur Khan. And look at Pak sports right now. We finished last in the hockey world cup, are ranked 7th out of 8 established cricketing nations and we are no longer a force in world squash! PIA was in much better shape then than it is now.
Do you remember when Zia issued ordinance of women anchors/news-readers to wear dupatta? I wonder why he did that? Please, don't give credit to Zia for producing stalwards like Imran Khan and Miandad. They were greats already before Zia took over.
And compare how Zia handled the post soviet-invasion scenario with how Musharraf tackled the fall out of 9/11. While Zia dealt with the Americans intelligently and tactfully, Musharraf literally dropped his pants and merely took dictation from them.
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was VERY different from 9/11. Soviet invaded Afghanistan and Pakistan was considered as next Soviet target, hence US didn't need to threaten (or show an intent) Pakistan to support US against Soviet. These are two entirely different situations.
Do you remember when Zia issued ordinance of women anchors/news-readers to wear dupatta? I wonder why he did that? Please, don't give credit to Zia for producing stalwards like Imran Khan and Miandad. They were greats already before Zia took over.
Read carefully. Where did I say that we produced Imran and Miandad because of Zia but I do give him credit for appointing better administrators in various sports organisations. Nur Khan is a shining example of that. Both PCB and PHF were run better as organisations during his time
Zia did overplay islamism initially but you pretty much had the same freedoms back then as you have today. I lived thru those times in Pakistan (primary schooling etc.) so I know what I am talking about. He was no Khomeini or Mullah Omer. There is just gross misrepresentation of him by some people. He did not ban indian films etc.
Read carefully. Where did I say that we produced Imran and Miandad because of Zia but I do give him credit for appointing better administrators in various sports organisations. Nur Khan is a shining example of that. Both PCB and PHF were run better as organisations during his time
Nur Khan probably was good or better administrator, do you believe Ziaul Haq conducted some kind of examination to judge who would turn out to be a good administrator for those sports you mentioned? Did he put any system in place to ensure that? Answer is big fat NO. We were lucky to have them.
Zia did overplay islamism initially but you pretty much had the same freedoms back then as you have today. I lived thru those times in Pakistan (primary schooling etc.) so I know what I am talking about. He was no Khomeini or Mullah Omer. There is just gross misrepresentation of him by some people. He did not ban indian films etc.
Do you agree or disagree that Zia issued an ordinance that women announcers/newscasters will have to cover with dupatta on TV?
Read carefully. Where did I say that we produced Imran and Miandad because of Zia but I do give him credit for appointing better administrators in various sports organisations. Nur Khan is a shining example of that. Both PCB and PHF were run better as organisations during his time
Zia did overplay islamism initially but you pretty much had the same freedoms back then as you have today. I lived thru those times in Pakistan (primary schooling etc.) so I know what I am talking about. He was no Khomeini or Mullah Omer. There is just gross misrepresentation of him by some people. He did not ban indian films etc.
err... he had people flogged publicly. journalists were tortured. an elected prime minister was hanged. political opponents were jailed. others were exiled. armywallas would be appointed to go sit in newspaper offices who would censor the dailies. he sowed the seeds of Pakistan's destruction which today we're reaping. Kalashnikov culture, drug culture are all his gifts. Fazlullah, Sufi Mohd, Baitullah Mehsud, Hakeemullah Mehsud, etc are the garbage he left behind for us. and you think he wasn't a monster?
I don't care about Khomeni, etc. but in the context of our history, he was the worst thing to happen to us. he needs to be put on trial posthumously if our beghairat jarnails would give us bloody civilians the permission.
but yes, he did one great thing and that was he gave us Indian filams... after all how can a momin be a momin and a mard-e-mujahid be a mard-e-mujahid if he doesn't enjoy some Bollywood thumkas. Naara-e-takbeer... Allah-o-akbar... Pakistan ka matlab kiya... Laillahaillallah... Pakistan ka matlab kiya... Bollywood filmaan on VCR.
err... he had people flogged publicly. journalists were tortured. an elected prime minister was hanged. political opponents were jailed. others were exiled. armywallas would be appointed to go sit in newspaper offices who would censor the dailies. he sowed the seeds of Pakistan's destruction which today we're reaping. Kalashnikov culture, drug culture are all his gifts. Fazlullah, Sufi Mohd, Baitullah Mehsud, Hakeemullah Mehsud, etc are the garbage he left behind for us. and you think he wasn't a monster?
I don't care about Khomeni, etc. but in the context of our history, he was the worst thing to happen to us. he needs to be put on trial posthumously if our beghairat jarnails would give us bloody civilians the permission.
but yes, he did one great thing and that was he gave us Indian filams... after all how can a momin be a momin and a mard-e-mujahid be a mard-e-mujahid if he doesn't enjoy some Bollywood thumkas. Naara-e-takbeer... Allah-o-akbar... Pakistan ka matlab kiya... Laillahaillallah... Pakistan ka matlab kiya... Bollywood filmaan on VCR.
Samb hate Zia as much as you want for hanging Bhutto (though he was no saint IMO for reasons that I have already mentioned above) but all the other things people keep accusing him of notably promoting drug and Kalashnikov culture are nothing but an eyewash. Those things would have happened regardless of who would have been in power then. What do you really expect when you have 4 million 'uninvited' refugees - most of them not known for any special skills other than drugs and arms - suddenly invading your western borders!
Do you agree or disagree that Zia issued an ordinance that women announcers/newscasters will have to cover with dupatta on TV?
I think even worse was having to wear khaki shalwar suit in schools!
Samb hate Zia as much as you want for hanging Bhutto (though he was no saint IMO for reasons that I have already mentioned above) but all the other things people keep accusing him of notably promoting drug and Kalashnikov culture is nothing but an eyewash. Those things would have happened regardless of who would have been in power then.
did Zia have people flogged publicly or not?
Bhutto might have been a million things... but he did not deserve a judicial murder. if anyone deserved to be murdered 10 times over, it was that bashtard Zia.
still hope that his rotten remains are dragged out of his grave and hanged. when his illegitimate children like Fazlullah can do that to dead Swatis... then why should the same not be done to Zia? after all Zia is where Fazlullah and other related animals get their motivation and inspiration from.
[quote]
What do you really expect when you have 4 million 'uninvited' refugees - most of them not known for any special skills other than drugs and arms - suddenly invading your western borders!
!
[/QUOTE]
err... they certainly weren't uninvited. we opened our borders for our Afghan brothers because we're oh so Muslim and hazrat Zia was the ameer-ul-momineen. an ameer-ul-momineen who liked some Bollywood masala on the side. you know because all Muslims are brothers and united in our love for Bollywood filmaan.
did Zia have people flogged publicly or not?
Bhutto might have been a million things... but he did not deserve a judicial murder. if anyone deserved to be murdered 10 times over, it was that bashtard Zia.
still hope that his rotten remains are dragged out of his grave and hanged. when his illegitimate children like Fazlullah can do that to dead Swatis... then why should the same not be done to Zia? after all Zia is where Fazlullah and other related animals get their motivation and inspiration from.
err... they certainly weren't uninvited. we opened our borders for our Afghan brothers because we're oh so Muslim and hazrat Zia was the ameer-ul-momineen. an ameer-ul-momineen who liked some Bollywood masala on the side. you know because all Muslims are brothers and united in our love for Bollywood filmaan.
Yes he did but who is condoning or defending that? He did resort to austere measures during his initial 1-2 years but you essentially had the same freedoms back then as you have today.
And yes we did invite the Afghan refugees but that border is porous and quite a significant number I believe w'd have still got in despite our best efforts.
- Bijli milna shuro hogai?
- Pani aana shuro hogaya ?
- Aaata milna shuro howa?
- Cheeni sasti hogai ?
- Petrol sasta hogaya ?
- Heath care ka problem solve howa?
- Education sab ko mil gai?
- Transport ka masla solve howa?
- Air Pollution thora kamm howa?
- Are people getting jobs?
- Are people smiling again?
- Did we solve the issue of Kashmir?
- Are we able to start talking to India again?
- Are we able to start production and export ?
- Is there any law and order on the streets? and ...
Ask those baygairat hukumraan to give at least 5 answers in YES, and go ahead to delete anything in the history, else tell them kay chullo bhar paani main doob maro if they have a bit of gairat baqi!
where was all this biatching when the country was going to hell in Musharraf's 9 years. then, everyone was sucking on their choosnis. but now everyone's got teeth.
[LIST=1] [li]Bijli milna shuro hogai?[/li]
do electricity crises start in vacuums all by themselves. this govt inherited the mess from Musharraf. the present govt hasn't done a good job of containing it. but they did not create this problem.
[quote]
Pani aana shuro hogaya ?
[/quote]
what is the problem with water? the situation is hardly ideal. but how is it any different from Musharraf's time?
[quote]
Aaata milna shuro howa?
[/quote]
mohtarram, the flour went missing in uncle Mushy's time if you remember correctly. remember elections? remember the caretaker govt? and as far as I've heard, aata is available now.
[quote]
Cheeni sasti hogai ?
[/quote]
what is this obssession with cheeni. you won't die if you don't drink five cups of chair per day each with three tablespoons of sugar. learn to live without sugar. you won't die. trust me.
[quote]
Petrol sasta hogaya ?
[/quote]
should the govt pump petrol out of its behind? we have to buy it from other countries. if the international rates are low, you will get it cheap. if international rates are high, you will pay more for it.
[quote]
Heath care ka problem solve howa?
[/quote]
why? was Musharraf trying to implement a healthcare system like the one Tommy Douglas gave to Canada.
like I said, in Mushy's time, where was the bloody healthcare. then everyone was sucking on their choosnis. now we want universal healthcare a la Canada and US.
[quote]
Education sab ko mil gai?
[/quote]
why did Mushrraf and Zia give education to everyone?
[quote]
Transport ka masla solve howa?
[/quote]
what transport ka masla did Musharraf and Zia solve for you? were they giving away free khotas to everyone?
[quote]
Air Pollution thora kamm howa?
[/quote]
haye Allah... main qurbaan jaawaan twaadi sensitivity tay... what magic pills did Musharraf and Zia have planned to cure air pollution.
[quote]
Are people getting jobs?
[/quote]
no worse than uncle Mushy's time.
[quote]
Are people smiling again?
[/quote]
yeah, I'm sure the people of Swat were smiling when the Taliban were cutting open their throats in Mushy's time.
I mean seriously what utter bakwaas. "are people smiling again?". how old are you?
[quote]
Did we solve the issue of Kashmir?
[/quote]
yeah a problem that no one has been able to solve in 60 years should be solved by the current govt in 2 years.
[quote]
Are we able to start talking to India again?
[/quote]
err... we will try to... as soon as Zia's rotten remains stop launching terrorist attacks in India.
[quote]
Are we able to start production and export ?
[/quote]
well you sound like a proper business tycoon. why don't you explain when it stopped.
[quote]
Is there any law and order on the streets? and ...
[/quote]
when Taliban were butchering people in Swat and marching up and down in the streets in Musharraf's time and declaring their own state, how was the law and order then? when Karachi was ransacked many times in Mushy's time, how was the situation then? what happened on May 12th? what happened during the judicial crisis? how many heads were cracked open, how many people bled in Islamabad? who killed Hammad Raza? who raped Dr. Shazia and who covered up for him without even doing a proper inquiry? who killed Bugti? in whose time was Benazir murdered?
how was the law and order on the streets then?
[quote]
Ask those baygairat hukumraan to give at least 5 answers in YES, and go ahead to delete anything in the history, else tell them kay chullo bhar paani main doob maro if they have a bit of gairat baqi!
[/QUOTE]
and the biggest beghairat are the hypocrites who suck on their choosnis when dictators take over and rule for decades. then, sabb acha hay. water crisis. no problem. terrorism. no problem. violence. no problem. we will bear it all.
but when a democratic govt takes over, if it doesn't wave its magic wand and fix the mess that was created over the past several decades of which more than half were under dictators, then we will be very angry...
duur fittay munh.
Re: Ziaul Haq to be deleted as president from history
