Zarqawi - Muslim view

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Please dont merge this thread with the general one about his death, Im interested in a specific question and only from a specific audience.

At various points in his career and in his death, news of Zarqawi has either begotten horror and condemnation or allegations on the western media of blackening the image of a noble Muslim man who just wanted to do jihad and be happy. I have no problem with the latter view and Im sure elements of western media are fed by untrustworthy sources for a specific aim, but the problem I see is that the main sources in his case are supposedly “islamic” websites, which are also responsible for the aspects of his persona that are appealing to Muslims, such as fighting america.

In the thread on his death I saw divergent views. Lajawab for instance mourned his death as a death of a Muslim, and derided the negative stuff about him such as inciting war against shia snakes and blowing up regular non american people as western BS. Sharabi on the other hand called him rehmatulllah alaih and regarded his struggle against aforementioned snakes as praiseworthy and the unfortunate iraqis killed as more or less collaborators with the regime. So we have contrary views here, one where news about him is rejected with a certain defensiveness, and another where its accepted with pride. It is interesting for me that these two highly contradictory views never seem to clash.

What do you think about him, Im interested in knowing the views of the more, say, non-mod Muslims here. Im not sure which category I fall in (or if according to some folks here I should merely be a dhimmi) but I think he was a convenient villain.

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It's like Bin Laden in Pakistan, they say the Jews took down the WTC but then a moment later they celebrate Bin Laden and his Jihadic successes against the west.

Somehow in these minds they are able to blame another party for such terror attacks and yet give credit to Bin Laden at the same time.

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Ravage sahib,

what is this thing called 'non-mod Muslims'? can u pls elaborate....

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utd that is true, which is why I want to know from non-mod Muslim posters (no restriction on captain1) what exactly we know about Zarqawi, and what that information is based on.

fg if you know what mod Muslim is, then you know what a non-mod Muslim is. If you dont know what a mod Muslim is your probably it.

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utd maybe its cuz the ppl who are celebrating his successes are not the same as those who are conspiacy theorists who are not the same as those who could not be bothered either way unless it directly affects them who are not the same as those who dont like the bloke

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and just an FYI, I dont consider myself a mod muslim or a non mod muslim or whatever, just a muslim :) (oh yea and not supporting any specific sect either )

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Fraudz I dont want to go into specifics but I know people and even people on this board who simultaneously believe Osama didnt do it and Osama is a great bastion of resistance. However that diverts the thread, and Im interested in Zarqawi.

Folks lets not get too much into whos mod and whos non-mod, i was feeling jokey i guess. Everyone is ofcourse welcome to post.

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Re: Zarqawi - Muslim view

I haven't watched the slaughtering videos or any other videos (claiming to attack, kidnapped persons, vowing to attack "all American" interests) for that matter. As for my own understanding from reading other articles/news it seems that he was a patriotic "insurgent" who might have gone astray (extremism) in defending his land. The news/propaganda makes it difficult for me to distinguish truth from lies, hence I leave upto Allah swt to judge his deeds. I can't make him a clearcut hero or villain.

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Aap ki height kya hai?
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Re: Zarqawi - Muslim view

Zarqawi was a media personality, not a warrior.

He had no known victories to his credit, nor where his tactics anything to speak about. As for his intentions, could they be any worse than the evil marines who massacre civilians? Well, I digress. I don't want to make excuses for Zarqawi if indeed he is responsible for the atrocities attributed to him.

Him, bin-laden, and all of those types are nobody. They dont' do the fighting, yet they try to control the agenda.

They were not there when Groznyy fell, and tens of thousands of Chechen civilians where brutally massacred. That was the local (SUFI) Chechen fighters who rose to defend the honor of their people. When did this scum show up? Beslan...Dagestan...

Their ilk usurp Islamist causes for power. And they do this through a cult of personality. A state can in fact be an Islamic state, it can uphold Shariah, it can do whatever Islamic states should do...they will always find an excuse to fight against it unless THEY are in control.

Zarqawi was no different. He was a mouth without a body. What were his accomplishments? Every freedom fighter should at least have one tale of a battle fought. Certainly the Afghans who fought the Soviets did...what was his? I eagerly await an answer to that.

So why all the hype about him? As you say, he played the role of villan very good.

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thank you captain1 and picoico, interesting perspectives, i dont disagree too much with either of you, though I probably am less ambivalent than captain1.

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:k:

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Re: Zarqawi - Muslim view

ravage sahib, frankly I do not believe in these labels, they are coined to stereotype ppl, generalize ideas and make things easier to undderstand even though they may not be true.

One observation from my side on the stated question, why is it that Muslims are quick to judge others (non-muslims) and leave muslim atrocities for Allah to judge? Why do we (Muslims) not stand up against muslim atrocities as the case of East Pakistan, Indonesia, Saddam, Syria, Saudi etc etc. It is reluctance to criticize one's own as a defensive mechanism and not allow opponents (mostly imaginary) the pleasure of being right. This attitude is all pervasive and leads to obfuscations in our thoughts and actions. As soon as we start to put our house in order, the sooner we will have the moral authority to judge and be judged.

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right, but I dont know of anyone who believes that osama did not do it and that osama did it as a part of his ‘resistance’. That would just signal multiple personality disorder. But yo are right, thats a diff topic, diff thread

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Zarqawi was a propaganda tool, designed to give a face to the Iraqi resitance to a brutal and unjust occupation of their country.

Anyone who cared to dig deeper into real 'news' and not the propaganda JEWS shove down your throat in the drive by media would understand that much.

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Well Ill be Islamic about my opinion...

A good bunch of us dont know for real what he really did in his life. Exagerations or false charges by the westren media and all. So, if he didnt do all that people claim hes done, than fine. If he has beheaded children or bred fights between sects, than hes a *******. As a muslim, if you dont know something, then you shouldnt speak about it cause it might not be true, so praising Zarqawi or condemning him should both be avoided. So I have generally no opinion about him as a muslim.

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I am assuming you mean the whole "Islamic land" kinda patriotic, because Zarqawi was not an Iraqi, rather he was originally from Jordan and had fought in Afghanistan, before coming over to Iraq after the fall of Talibaan regime. Surprisingly he never became famous to fight the dictatorship in his "homeland" of Jordan, but thats a separate topic. Zarqawi was the face of Iraqi insurgency, partly by his own propaganda mechanism, and partly because of American government/media's insistance to personalize any given conflict and give it a face. A face is important to enrage the viewers and demonize the opponent. Zarqawi fit the mold perfectly. If slaughtering the hostages on television was not enough, we had his rhetorical speeches to keep the air waves busy.

Having said that I don't think Zarqawi was so much focused on defending the homeland, as much as he was to ensure that the future Iraq government does not "fall" to shias and to maximize the loss for the invading American military. Al Qaida, over all, is a very narrow-minded organization with little or no tolerance to other sects/groups/opinions. If you don't agree 100% with their view of the world, then you are an infidel or brainwashed idiot. Some gentlemen on this forum subscribe to the same narrow-minded mentality as well and resort to name-calling at the drop of a hat. The whole rhetoric surrounding "mod-muslim" is also a result of the same "I-am-right-and-you-are-brainwashed" mindset.

Regarding Zarqawi's conflict with the US forces in Iraq and the damage he and his group inflicted upon them. These would largely seem justified because the group is defending their land, while no one disputes that Americans are invaders and occupiers in Iraq. That they had hordes of Iraqi men joining them to fight against Americans are there to show that his cause was largely deemed praiseworthy at least in those parts of Iraq where he was operating and was effective (Sunni triangle and areas surrounding Baghdad). This is the same logic with which American media glorifies as freedom fighters the French who fought against Nazi occupation, or even how the US forefathers rebelled agains British Crown to gain independence. So from that angle alone, he would be in a lofty status. Thats where Sharaabi's and others' praise for Zarqawi is derived from.

However, as part of his struggle to stop, or delay, the formation of a shia majority government in Iraq and to inflict loss to anyone associated with government or collaborating with the invading US military, Zarqawi and his group killed many many muslims in Iraq over the last few years. Assuming the media reports are even 5% correct, question is, does it justify these deaths as collateral damage? May be, may be not. You will have multiple views on this, even from a purely Islamic stand point. So, depending upon how you feel about this collateral damage of muslim lives, you will form your opinion about Zarqawi. Anyone who washes the whole thing away as a media hogwash propagated by brain-washed mod-muslims is living in a la-la land.

Personally I don't think I, or many of us, have any real knowlege about the facts on the ground, to be in any position of trying to act as a judge in this matter. Especially trying to be the judge on someone who is already dead.

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what I would like to know is where the hell did he get that m-249 light machine gun (made by fnh usa) which he nearly fumbled in a recorded video. I mean, have the good old russian ak47's gone out of fashion? Kind of makes you wonder, who is really benefiting from the war on terrorism. US military industrial complex

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Really?

You havent watched al-jazeera which showed dead Iraqis in the street after zarqawi's handy work?

or when his men caused the death of 1,000 shia pilgrims in a stampede?

or when he killed 180 iraqi children by using an oil tanker to attack american troops who were handing out candy...

What a great Islamic Hero.....

Funny, I thought Zarqawi was from Jordan

And Zarqawi is the bloodiest Terrorist in history, he killed around 30,000-100,000 Iraqis in the matter of 3 years.........

Look at Jordan for example, they lionized Zarqawi for his heroic struggle against the Americans and accepted that Iraqi casualties are a collateral damage but once Zarqawi attacked Jordan, almost all Jordanians turned against him.

You mean you cant seperate the truth from the lies?

Well thats easy. What makes common sense is the truth and what makes absolutley no sense is a lie.

For example, Zarqawi is a blood thirsty arab terrorist who killed iraqis because they were cooperating with the americans. Thats a truth

Jews were responsible for 9/11. Thats a lie....

Just because he is an Arab and Muslim does not excuse his killings

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Is it true that "Fateha" was read in Pakistani Parliament for Zarqawi? I heard it from one of my friend but have not been able to confirm it yet...

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I don’t subscribe to such media outlets, just follow the news to some extent on different sites as I believe most of such outlets are very biased and only show one side of stories.

Yes my error of saying “his homeland” which was already highlighted/corrected by Faisal’s following comments.

That is just what happens everywhere, Pakistan/Bengladesh, USSR/Afghanistan and everywhere else in the world. You will change your opinion about US/Canada lets say God forbid their intelligence agency shoots “by accident” a family member of yours or does something similar to the pair in UK (recently).

:hehe: I hope you were being sarcastic here.