Actually it is, do you want me to pull up a thread where someone was warned on doing that? Only, the poor guy was an Indian 
Its cool though, mitti pao 
Spock bro, let the mods do the dirty biznis then 
i dont want my two good friends u n nadz fighting 
please do virtual smiles at each other n make uppā¦ *bummer pleesshh 
nado ji 
Spock gave a smile now its ur turn pokes at nadz with little finger come on
Last post me itni achi smile di thi! Kher, heres another one! :D This one looks more like me
thanks Spock i think apni nado ji has got dc she is also not on msn
mein us ko khench k laati hooon thori deyr mein is thread mein when she gets online again
sigh i better get back to work too
iz this posst abt Ghareeloo Jhagraas.ummm I am ssssssoooooo
saddd.
Please, talk about the main issues. or take It to cafe or msn as you mentioned.
As for giving bad words to dead leader, doesnāt make any sense.
and It just shows ignorance on part of the person using curse word.
take care
**
lolzā¦ acha, since you poked me with your cute little finger, ab tau smile karna hi ho ga Lo ji - hereās my smile ā> And hereās a genuine flower for Spock ā>
Irem, i swear i logged off a little while subsequent to writing my last post in this thread. Itās ~ 7am here now, logging in for the first time. Hence my delayed reply.
Spock i believe every individual follows in their heart what they believe to be true. Aisa bhi ho sakta hai, that i am wrong and you are right. i pray in that case, that Allah shows me the right information eventually. i would never want to believe bad about anyone unless i have to. Please donāt take my comments in this thread personally. Itās a very personal issue for me (but that doesnāt justify anything i have stated). Who knows, you could be right and i could be wrong.
i hope our future conversations on gupshup are, as they should be, informative and respectful InshaāAllah. Take care - Allah Hafiz,
nadia
ps- Irem, Thanks for trying to be the peace-maker i love you Will reply to your pmās laterā¦have to go to uni right now. :~/
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
iz this posst abt Ghareeloo Jhagraas.ummm I am ssssssoooooo
saddd.
[/QUOTE]
in that case rehman pai...plz dont cry :( and if u do...SIRAF ROSE PETAL TISSUE istamal karna :D :p
One cannot pin the blame for '71 debacle solely on ZAB. The Awami League swept elections in 1970 by winning 160 out of 162 seats in Bengal, whereas PPP managed to secure only 81 out of 138 seats in west Pakistan. Yahya Khan should have invited the largest party to form the government, but AL's six points were a thorn in army's eye. AL's six points ensured all provinces full provincial autonomy and envisaged a federal government that would deal with defence and foreign affairs only. It was not acceptable for the power hungry generals of the army of course. The Larkana conspiracy ascertained the disintergration of Pakistan. Without the support of genral Yahya and general Pirzada, ZAB was nowhere in a position to prevent Mujib from becoming the prime minister of Pakistan. It would be better if Mujib had also shown a little flexibility on AL's six points.
Whoa cool down people :)
Nadia: Thanks for your comments, when talking history one should be open and allow people to show their own opinions.. without getting personal. ZAB was far from a saint as i have repeatedly said ( have you read Wolperts book on him?) and if I were around when he was in power I would have opposed his politics but his politics set the tone in pakistan for a generation. Why else would his daughter be received by a million people in lahore in 1986? And if you judge politicians on the basis of enemies alone he is unique in Pakistani history.
Spock: I know of three stories about Bhutto's tactics towards the opposition which were quite horrific, one is about the present leader of the ANP, he was a student in karachi in the 1970's and he was tortured quite horribly by Bhutto's personal security froce the FSF (it is said the torture included pulling out peoples nails). Another is trying to force a politician to come out of hiding by arresting his 7 year old son. And the third is his targetting of the man who created the PPP manifesto and party slogans JA Rahim who after calling Bhutto the Raja of Larkana was beaten up with his son and sent to England. One shouldn't be blind in support of political leaders..they are after all a reflection of us ..imperfect people ...some with more flaws than others.
shahwaiz: One can't pin the whole blame for 1971 on Bhutto, after all Pakistan had a military ruler who was all powerful, however 1971 was a collective failure which Bhutto could have played a positive role in if he had seen past his own ambitions.
Nadia, I did not know you were a mohajir. Mashallah.
I know of Bhlutto's obvious favoritism of Sindhis, so your story does not surprise me. But I still disagree with you on many other things. :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
in that case rehman pai...plz dont cry :( and if u do...SIRAF ROSE PETAL TISSUE istamal karna :D :p
[/QUOTE]
:)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
shahwaiz: One can't pin the whole blame for 1971 on Bhutto, after all Pakistan had a military ruler who was all powerful, however 1971 was a collective failure which Bhutto could have played a positive role in if he had seen past his own ambitions.
[/QUOTE]
Salaams Zakk (How have you been?)
I don't think blaming Yahya does any good. He conducted one of the fairest elections in the history of Pakistan, and had no intentions of holding on to power (as evidenced by his step down). His political ambitions nullify the leading role..it was between Mujib and ZAB. Mujib, the rightful future PM, did not have the support of the largely W.Pakistani military. It was ZAB who manipulated an already biased West Pakistani establishment in creating this situation.
The funny thing is that PPP did not even win all of W. Pakistan only Sindh and Punjab. Later on, ZAB would crush Baluchistan and dismiss the democratically elected Frontier govt. In the past I have outlined the case against ZAB here on gupshup and I don't intend to repeat the same points. However the man has developed a cult following in Sindh and Punjab...to this day PPP preaches a Sindhi nationalist message in one province and a Pro-Pakistani one in another.
Salam
I am not focusing on Yahya Khan alone but a dictator (civilian or Military)who is all powerful has less of an excuse for his governments mistakes compared to a Democratic ones.
At the same time ZAB did not order the Army to brutally crackdown with all guns blazing in East pakistan.
Just another point I do not believe ZAB was racist towards urdu speakers or any other ethnic group he was vindictive and targetted anyone who he felt ignored him before he became PM the fact that most of the people were urdu speakers and pathans(not pakhtuns) was a reflection of those two ethnic groups dominance in the 1960's.
Interestingly in the first local government elections held during Zia's Martial law the PPP won the mayorship of karachi quite decisively. One can't say the same for the balochistan though.
p.s RF: Long time no see (I e mailed you just the other day!)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
:)
[/QUOTE]
:)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Salam
I am not focusing on Yahya Khan alone but a dictator (civilian or Military)who is all powerful has less of an excuse for his governments mistakes compared to a Democratic ones.
At the same time ZAB did not order the Army to brutally crackdown with all guns blazing in East pakistan.
Just another point I do not believe ZAB was racist towards urdu speakers or any other ethnic group he was vindictive and targetted anyone who he felt ignored him before he became PM the fact that most of the people were urdu speakers and pathans(not pakhtuns) was a reflection of those two ethnic groups dominance in the 1960's.
Interestingly in the first local government elections held during Zia's Martial law the PPP won the mayorship of karachi quite decisively. One can't say the same for the balochistan though.
p.s RF: Long time no see (I e mailed you just the other day!)
[/QUOTE]
Wa'Salaams Zakk,
There is no doubt that the army fed into the lies of ZAB, as they too distrusted E. Pakistanis. The question remains: Who was the manipulator in chief? It was not Yahya or some other W. Pakistani.
We are all aware of Tikka Khans disasterous Operation Searchlight crackdown, which history will never forget. However, we win not forget the "Butcher of Bengal" (* A PPP Stalwart mind you) being exonerated in HRC and playing such a strong role in ZAB's govt. There is strong complicity in these affairs, especially considering how Yahya was ousted and treated after '71.
ZAB may not have been a racist but his actions sure caused misery for the residents of Baluchistan, NWFP much less the separation of E.Pakistan. ZAB was no doubt a genius, an evil genius.
Well everybody knows i consider Bhutto and his kin scum. They did alot of things that have destoryed pakistan. Firstly he created the situation that deterioated into the country being spilt. Irrespective of what he did afterwards. He destroyed and split the country. Not a good thing for a nation. Though i personally think that it was a bad idea to have the two as one country. The destruction of a nation is pathetic and a blight on our past. He created that. He helped maintain it.
Plus his economic policies were pathetic. I mean they helped lay the foundations for the corruption that took place in the 90s.
Plus lets not forget that Bhutto acted more like a dictator than a elected leader. He routinely had people tortured and killed.
RF said the rest i wanted to say.
Edit: Thought i would add this link:
Just one last point, Bhutto's last act as Prime Minister was to compromise with the opposition and agree to fresh elections. Essentially it was the act of a democrat, Zia's martial law was imposed despite the fact that the problem had resolved. Also as we discussed his role in East Pakistan was a consequence of him being elected by the majority of Pakistanis. He neither was responsible for the atrocities that happened nor did he influence Yahya Khans fateful decision to postpone the Assembly meeting in Dhaka. Ultimately as Cm said a state in two "wings" was probably unviable but I think most writers agree the tensions between the two wings were the consequence of protracted semi-military rule in the 1960's.
The Nationalisation argument i agree with, it effectively destroyed a thriving private sector. Oddly most of the people who benefitted from his nationalisation programme because of the sudden vacuum in many sectors, Pakistan's new class of business people(the Sharifs, Haq cronies and others of this world) ended up being anti PPP. Another group that benefitted from his rule was the Armed forces, they were almost ruined in the eyes of the average Pakistani in 1972, he enlarged the Army equipment wise and expanded recruitment in Pakistan's traditional Martial belt. He also introduced women seats in Parliament and and appointed Pakistan's first female governor..
I guess the biggest mistake he made was getting Zia up there. Zia sold out to the americans, got Bhutto out when the time was bad for ZAB. And then Zia would solemnly pledge to the nation about holding fresh elections and do what he does best, hang on to the seat and put the country on self destruct.