I managed to find a few speeches of Bhutto which maybe of interest:
*"I have been summoned by the nation as the authentic voice of the people of Pakistan…. I want the flowering of our society…. I want suffocation to end…. This is not the way civilized countries are run. Civilization means Civil Rule…. We have to build democratic institutions. We have to rebuild hope in the future. We have to rebuild a situation in which the common man, the poor man in the street, can tell me to go to hell. We have to make our government accountable." *
21 December 1971
"They say I drink. Yes I drink! I do drink alcohol, but I do not drink people's blood" (referring to the religious parties!)
Feb 1977
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*Despite these commendable qualities he was also dictatorial and profoundly cruel. He damaged the same constitution he created and victimised friends and foe alike. *
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What good qualities can someone possess if they are allegedly also "dictatorial and profoundly cruel"? It's like saying, although Saddam Hussein was dictatorial and profoundly cruel, he had commendable qualities........ NO. Either you are a cruel dictator and an awful leader, or you are not. There are no two ways about it, it's not grey.
Some Guppies gave their personal reflections of him. Well, i also have a few personal reflections i would like to share. This b@star@d of a "leader" (sorry, forgive my language) represents one of the most shameful periods in Pakistan's history for me. i am sorry to say, i shed no tears over his passing away. The whole family is corrupt...wish they would just move to another continent for the rest of their lives instead of screwing up Pakistan era after repeated era.
What good qualities can someone possess if they are allegedly also "dictatorial and profoundly cruel"? It's like saying, although Saddam Hussein was dictatorial and profoundly cruel, he had commendable qualities........ NO. Either you are a cruel dictator and an awful leader, or you are not. There are no two ways about it, it's not grey.
Some Guppies gave their personal reflections of him. Well, i also have a few personal reflections i would like to share. This b@star@d of a "leader" (sorry, forgive my language) represents one of the most shameful periods in Pakistan's history for me. i am sorry to say, i shed no tears over his passing away. The whole family is corrupt...wish they would just move to another continent for the rest of their lives instead of screwing up Pakistan era after repeated era.
You can find a lot of things bad about Bhutto as a politician, but as a man I respect him for his leadership and being one of the few (if not only) civillian leaders who dared to go up against the army establishment. No one has been able to out the army back in the barracks, where it belongs, after him.
There are ten times many army generals who deserve a hanging then Bhutto did.
*i am sorry to say, i shed no tears over his passing away. *
Nadia I shed no tears over his passing either but I do respect the man's intelligence.. I know of people who suffered under his government (and suffered quite horribly I might add), but his murder was an act of depravity which set Pakistan back several decades. In the end two wrongs do NOT make a right..
He was also a far more representative product of Pakistani society than anything we have had since... His tactics of victimisation and his economic policies were not that different from the Indira Gandhis and Mujeeb ur Rehmans of his time. Let's also not forget how his family suffered, you can criticise Benazir all you like but factually the Bhuttos did suffer enormously during Zia's time (everything from poisoning to being locked in solitary confinement).
As usual your ever-polite reply to my angry words, puts me to shame. i take these political discussions extremely seriously and if i do invest the time in replying to someone's political thread, i usually do it with my personal feelings invested into it. i am sorry for the outburst, albeit i stand by my words as firmly as ever. However, the tone of my post left much to be desired.
i am biased. My personal opinion of ZAB is tainted by the fact that my family has had a negative experience with him. My Nana gave his life, literally, towards working for Pakistan; at the peak of his career, when he was serving as Pakistan's Ambassador to Indonesia, ZAB entered Pakistan's political scene. It was under the personal and direct instruction of ZAB that my Nana was ousted from his position because he was not the 'right' ethnicity (Mohajir). There were other pettier issues that ZAB didn't approve of vis-a-vis Nana's conduct of handling his staff - Nana's pointblank refusal of accepting bribes. These are all personal issues that deserve no merit in an objective political discussion but i desire to bring it up to put my earlier (blunt) words into context. i have a ferocious sense of pride towards my Nana; there are more objective individuals than myself who would be able to give you a better sense of how much he did for Pakistan. Adam Malik (who passed away a few years ago), formerly president of the UN General Assembly during its 26th session, is one such man and was a very close friend and colleague of my Nana's; Begum Shaista Suhrawardy (the first female representative of the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan) was another. Anyways, ZAB's harassment of Nana led to the latter's early death. There is so much i want to write, but now i am treading in a land full of personal biases. i have tried to study ZAB's political career from an objective standpoint, but even then, i am unable to forgive the man for the mess that he left Pakistan in. Did he deserve to die in the manner that he did ? Allah is the best Judge of that. Humans are prone to personal biases.
One of the healthiest indicators of a friendship is that, despite how much i may disagree with you, i will always respect your (right to your) opinions. That remains, and Insha'Allah will always remain, unchanged.
I suggest some individuals here keep the personal remarks to themselves, and mind their languages please.
As for ZAB, summing up, hes the best politician we have had to date, no question about it! I heard he was very harsh and swift on firing corrupt officials, thats what we need today!
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Spock: *
**I suggest some individuals here keep the personal remarks to themselves, and mind their languages please. *
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Spock, If you have a problem with my language and my personal remarks, why don't you just please say it directly to me in this thread instead of mincing the words. Thanks in advance.
[quote] I heard he was very harsh and swift on firing corrupt officials, thats what we need today!
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I demand to know what this means. Are you implying something about my Nana? Unless you knew him personally, which is factually impossible because he passed away probably before you were even born, please don't talk about him that way. Since i have not brought in speculations about your family members, you have no right to do the same towards mine.
Spock, If you have a problem with my language and my personal remarks, why don't you just please say it directly to me in this thread instead of mincing the words. Thanks in advance.
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I can say whatever I want. I was actually anticipating people to start commenting about his personal life, but to my surprise, that didnt happen until you came along with your comments about Bhutto being a 'b@stard', I hate some leaders, but I never get to their personal lives, or call them 'b@stards'.
The funny part is - had your response been more along Zakk's lines, i would have been more willing to listen to you.
Anyways. Before either of us states something we will regret down the road, let's just agree to disagree for the sake of the thread's longevity and mutual friendship.
Spock bro, I don’t wana see u guys fighting Nadia didn’t say something to you personally did she bro? Why you saying all that stuff to her??
Many people in the Pakistani public will give gaalis to politicians if you talk to them. People have called Benazir such bad words on this board too even despite her being female.
Nadia obviously has a personal reason, her family was personally harmed by Bhutto. Mine wasnt and maybe yours wasnt alhamdulillah do we dont know how it feels. Some people whose companies were nationalised by Bhutto, talk to them, and see what they have to say. i had friends like that in school who used to hate the bhutto family and give gaalis to them.
Nadia has a right to her opinion right if she feels wronged by him? :S
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Like i said... before my temper really erupts, i think it will be best for both of us if we stop this pointless, futile conversation.
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I dont care about your temper, all you did was trash talk, and got personal, and all I did was remind you not to do that.
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To you, your opinions. To me, mine. Allah Hafiz.
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Yeah, but lets leave the personal insults out. You can convey your points more effectively be leaving them out, dont u think?
I studied with Kasuri’s grandson (assuming you guys know who Kasuri was, and what the whole thing about his family and Bhutto ), and even his grandson never got personal, and this was grade 10. Do you think opinions can be voiced properly by calling someone a b*****d of a leader?
Spock bro how do u know what he said in his personal gatherings or the feelings inhis heart? i studied with some politicians children too…and have heard some guys give bad gaalis to politicians…benazir was an ex grammarian, i was in grammar school for two yrs, and there this topic used to come up and some ppl gave her bad gaalis…and the chief minister…and altaf hussain…everyone used to give gaalis to them…
khayr Spock bro i really dont wana argue with u but i dont think u should have gone off on Nadia like that bro honestly… she has a right to say what she wants on this forum, ppl have gone personal on this forum before init, its not against forum rules to give gaalis to leaders is it?
hmm…i see ur point too Spock bro…i do see it… but i think we dont understand what Nadia might feel… so we shudnt be saying anything to her…if something is against forum rules, mods can edit it i think…
Nadia didn’t say something to you personally did she bro? Why you saying all that stuff to her?? 
but i dont think u should have gone off on Nadia like that bro honestly…