Your views on terrorism and jihad

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I’ve recently been doing some research on terrorism and it’s connection to jihad, and found some quite interesting pieces of work. One of the most interesting is the work of Michael Scheuer - a former CIA Intelligence Officer, who was chief of the Bin Laden unit.

I don’t want to come across pro terrorism, but some of the things this guy has said about Bin Laden make him sound a lot less like a terrorist, and more like a truly devoted Muslim who knew his path of choice and followed it with complete determination. Some of his quotes on Bin Laden and terrorism include;

‘Bin Laden is not the caricature that we made of him. Indeed, if I had only 10 qualities to enumerate in drafting a thumbnail biographical sketch of him, they would be; pious, brave, generous, intelligent, charismatic, patient, visionary, stubborn, egalitarian and most of all, realistic - he is a man who has grasped the timeless truth that wars are only won by killing.’
-Through our enemies eyes Michael Scheuer

'It’s always been hard for me to understand how we say people who supports Osama Bin Laden or someone else like him – who are willing to give their lives to destroy the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia – how we can describe those people as people who hated freedom. It seems to me that their definition of freedom might be different than ours, but to oppose a dictatorship, one must want freedom in some kind of way. ’
Al-Jazeera TV on September 11 and 12, 2005
'I think that – you know – we just encountered – America encountered – a brilliant man, and in terms of being a noble cause, it wasn’t that many centuries ago that killing in the name of God, or waging war in the name of God, was a major thing in Christianity. ’
Al-Jazeera TV on September 11 and 12, 2005
I think the 9/11 Commission, report, for example is wrong. The 9/11 Commission report identifies bin Laden and his followers as takfiris, who kill Muslims if they don‘t agree with them. They‘re not takfiris. They‘re just very devout, severe Salafists and Wahhabis.
Hardball with Chris Matthews, November 16 2004
[Bin Laden has] already said publicly that you can have all the oil you want. I can‘t drink it. We‘re going to sell it to you at a marketplace.
Hardball with Chris Matthews, November 16 2004
I don’t consider Osama Bin Laden to be a terrorist. I consider him to be a resistance fighter
. Roundtable discussion on PBS regarding Islam–April 14th 2006, answering a question posed by Ray Suarez.
His motive—his motive is to change our policies, sir. Notwithstanding what the president or Mr. Kerry said during the campaign, he really doesn’t give a darn about our democracy or our society. He is after a change in policies which he views as lethal to Muslims.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

This is coming from a guy who truly hates Islam, and has worked behind the scenes

So what do you think? Osama Bin Laden- terrorist or devout muslim?

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

My view? Terrorism and Jihad do not go together. Jihad is fight against terrorism, oppression, and injustice. At a personal level Jihad is one that each person does with his/her own desires, to overcome the desires that lead to do wrong, to overcome committing evil, and to overcome doing injustice to others is greatest of Jihad at individual level.

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Always fighting for interest of west is true jihad..and that can bring prosperity and respect to muslim communities...remember days of afghan jihad even rambo was on their side...

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

So Osama Bin Laden- was he a terrorist or jihadist?

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

In his name there has been a lot of bloodshed. Too much smokescreen to see the truth, so I'm not sure. I don't know enough about him, except what the mainstream media has brought to light. I'm cautious of things that I myself have not verified, so I can't pass a judgement.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

True, I guess nobody knows for sure, but I'd trust individuals that knew him and studied about him more than mainstream media, Michael Scheuer's books for example are really insightful

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

he's a naive tool that got used, and destroyed by his original masters. the exact ideologies used to brainwash a tool are unimportant. and if evil amreeka had no business being in afghanistan, neither did arab mercenaries like bin laden and co. they are the same coin, just two sides.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Im not sure, but I heard it all actually kicked off with the war between Palestine and Israel, with America on Israel's side and Al Qaeda fighting for Palestine

If you hear some of the interviews Bin Laden has given, you can't help agree with him on some points, I do believe he went about solving the problem wrong, but that doesn't actually deny that there was a problem, does it?

Personally, I believe that Osama not being the leader of the Al Qaeda us just a rumor spread by Saudi's who don't want to accept any responsiblity for him, as he is originally Saudi born and educated, otherwise his family that have given interviews would confirm this, at least to help protect him, but I've never heard any of them comment on that, on the contrary, his own mother says that he was always worried about the state of Palestine, and the young Muslims not taking any responsiblity for it
He was from a highly influential family, and even had connections with the royal Saudi family, I can't understand the commitment and thoughts behind giving up a life of such luxuries for war and ultimately death

The Al Qaeda doesn't actually consist of illiterate AfghanI individuals as we've assumed, but rather a lot of highly educated, influential people, who believe that what Osama was doing is religiously correct. Being a Muslim who doesn't believe in violence, im not sure what to think of that. Should we praise Osama for his devotion and determination or hate him for the violence and hate he spread?

How would you look at this from an Islamic prospective?

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Peace Sanaya123

I would say that what you wrote says more about Michael Scheuer than it does about bin Laden ... Michael states ... "he (bin laden) is a man who has grasped the timeless truth that wars are only won by killing" ...

You see that sneaky statement! This is the writers own opinion ... The writer believes that wars are only won by killing and he is telling us that bin Laden shares this belief with him.

Wars are to be avoided ... This is the mantra for the true jihadi. No war can be won, because when it breaks out, both sides have already lost. Thereafter, material victory may lie in the hands of one or the other as God deems it to be so ... But neither a material loss nor a material win speaks of which as being more virtuous.

The greatest war to win is one where no killing takes place, but wins over the hearts of people. The battle of opinion ... But only where it is being to elevate truth. If propaganda is a form of warfare then the elements that are in play that make it seem the good is bad and the bad is good are winning the war ... But ultimately losing sight of universal truth and hence they in fact lose out in the long run ...

Fighting for material power is a myopia ... Killing people and thinking it to be necessary is a myopia ... Removing oppression is what a jihadi does ... Even it means putting his own life at risk. A jihadi upholds and represents the truth and will operate through the confines of justice.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

If a tyrant can be stopped of his tyranny without having his seat taken then this is best ... Instead if our actions create more tyranny then our notion of jihad producing that extra tyranny is counterproductive ... And the true jihadi always gives regard to the bigger picture. In some cases the best option is to walk away.

The defiance in the fasting/eating strike done by Ghandi is more a result of jihadi thought process than anything that seems to be surfacing today in the popular media.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

The OBL idea was a tool, yes ... Those who believe he was in real life as he was depicted to be in the media were naive ones.

We use the term brainwashing too randomly ... For sure the media bombarding our minds of their slant constantly is just what brainwashing really is ...

The question to answer is does the US ever get involved in matters where a direct material gain is not present? If no ... then know they are in it for the money.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Jihaad is obligatory on you if you and/or your religion is under an imminent/actual [NOT perceived] threat and you come out and fight in defense if and only if you fight for the sake of Allah and you do NOT transgress because Allah does NOT love/like transgressors.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

i remember you used to go around saying there is no al qaeda or TTP. so this is not surprising..

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Just a little disclaimer> Please be very careful what you say on this particular topic on this site or anywhere online. You should be pretty sure that this site is monitored and anything you say can be twisted and used against you at anytime. I don't have to tell you guys that again. We are living in different times and you can be certain that someone will be reading your "views" and can easily knit pick parts of what you say....that being said..If you are not doing anything wrong, you should not be saying anything wrong either..and we are all peace loving muslims here anyway. (note to BIG BROTHER).

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Peace notthatguy

Thanks for your concern ... May Allah (SWT) reward you. I follow a very open approach in life i.e. I have no secrets in my belief, and I make it very clear what my actual ideas and beliefs are.

The clarity of Islam is paramount ... the media are trying their hardest to make it murky ... So it is necessary to counter that attempt with clarification. Being afraid of ones own safety is okay ... but to speak out for truth is the jihad today. There are ways to be sublime and nice and truthful ... Never should we get angry or let others affect our state. We should not act in haste nor in isolation to the ummah and these are good rules to follow. Some people who are not vocal enough may have been arrested wrongly and no one else knows why ... some people may be rightly arrested ...

The fact that they were solitary and virtually unknown people makes them easy to pick out ... You know what the wolf does to stray sheep or to sheep that stray too far from his flock ... He picks him out ... So it is recommended for every Muslims to stay openly vocal with good ideas and never stray too far from his group of people who can defend him and stand up for him ... for any injustice they are able to provide proof that supports him ... We need to increase our companionship with one another and be extra vocal in various media outlets so that we secure a muttawatir chain about ourselves and our true views.

Also, from a religious point of view we ought to be more of a community and know each other very well then when we see members going slightly one way we can support them and pull them back. A lot of aggression and dismay in some Muslims comes from them being alone ... that is our responsibility to deal with.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

I never entirely denied their existence ... However, I do hold that anything said with the Al-Qaeda or the TTP name tag cannot be questioned because getting proof for it either way is very difficult.

Al-Qaeda is a convenient name tag to put on some people. It goes wrong sometimes to do that ... I do believe al-Qaeda have survived and some of the groups that were collectively called mujahideen are now referred to as al-Qaeda ... I also know that groups are allying with the al-Qaeda groups. Such as Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria and TTP in Pakistan. But I also know there are a lot of mini-battalions in both Pakistan and Syria who are not affiliated with al-Qaeda and are stand alone fighters with very different beliefs.

For the sake of keeping the western forces acions in good light all of these groups are painted with the same brush by our western media ... However, in reality some groups are truly fighting for a good and noble cause and many things (not all things) by the western forces are criminal and individuals within their ranks are terrorists just as there are terrorists in other groups too.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Would it be right to call Al-Qaeda an ideology rather than an organization?

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

My views on terrorism and Jihad … and that if OBL was a terrorist or a Jihadist:

A Jihadist represents Muslim state in war (regardless of ruler is just or unjust). Jihad represts fighting for just cause under the banner of state (call of Jihad is always given by one ruling or head of state).

Individuals involved in Jihad: It is also jihad for individuals who fight to safeguard their own legitimate interest or fight against persecution (their own persecution by state, other individuals, or group).

Terrorist do not represent state nor fight for state, nor fight to safeguard own legitimate interest or persecution … rather terrorist represent himself, fight to supress others, fight for his own cause or to impose his beleifs, and in process victimise others who are mostly innocent civilians (though could be state machenary too).

OBL was not representing any state, was fighting to spread his cause and enforce his own beleifs, was victimising many innocent civilians not willing to be part of his cause or follow his beleifs, and thus OBL falls into third category (was terrorist). Actually, OBL was terrorst of high quality.

Meaning of Jihad is struggle, and in Islam, it is of two types.

Jihad of Nafs (Jihad): Here a person struggles to keep oneself away from sin, persuade one self to do Ibadah, and control ‘desires and wishes’ one have so that one stays content (and happy) with what one is given by Allah (be mutmayeen). This jihad is Fard-e-Ain and thus is obligatory on Muslim all the time.

Jihad of sword (Qattal): Fight others without personal reasons or personal beliefs, in circumstances where fighting others become obligatory on that person. This jihad is Fard-e-Kafaia, and is obligatory on Muslim if rulers call for it.

Jihad of sword (Qattal) is defencive jihad and it becomes obligatory on rulers and is also allowed to people who are direct victim of oppression (as they can fight against oppression on them). Rulers can call Muslims to join him in ‘Just war (that is jihad)’ and his call makes jihad obligatory on those Muslims whoever he calls … if and only if ruler’s call for jihad is just … that is, against outer aggression, against oppression, for retribution, for liberation, etc.

[Ruler could be just or unjust, but his call for ‘Qattal’ becomes obligatory if the cause ruler called for ’Qattal’ is just]

War: There could be fighting between kingdoms for wealth, land, or whatever. Such wars are not Jihad neither it is terrorism. Though, terrorism could be part of war between kingdoms.

Terrorism is ‘fitna and fisad’: A terrorist do not represent any state (kingdom, rule, dominion) but work as individual or in group to terrorise people and could even terrorise state (if a group is fighting for independence, than that is not terrorism). Terrorist's victims could be civilians, military, men, women, children, young or old, as it does not matter to terrorist who they victimise (or kill). Terrorist makes anyone their target who do not agree with them (their personal beliefs and values) or whoever come in their path. Terrorists could even terrorise people for wealth, land, ego, power, etc.

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Re: Your views on terrorism and jihad

Agreed, so therefore, would the situation in Palestine count as a threat to Muslims worthy of jihad or could it possibly have been solved in other ways?