Your leaders are all homo`s

It is about time this guy was asked very nicely of course to get the hell out of Britain.I have just seen him on tv surounded by young men with their faces masked,talking into 2 way radio`s on the streets of London.When asked by reporter for comments,these young men all answer at the same time,evil-doers,homosexuals,all your leaders are homosexuals.

I cannot believe that this guy has not been kicked out long ago,not by thr British goverment but by muslims who live in Britain.When asked to comment on this guy the majority of British muslims say they would have nothing to do with him,he certainly has not done the muslim community here any favours

04 February 2003

Radical Muslim cleric Abu Hamza, who has called on God to destroy the United States, was dismissed from his position at a London mosque today for “inappropriate political statements.”

The Charity Commission, which suspended Mr Hamza last April as an agent of the Finsbury Park mosque, said it was making the decision permanent after rejecting an appeal from the cleric’s lawyers.

In a statement, the commission said the cleric had continued to preach at the mosque in defiance of the ban.

Officials at the mosque have complained of intimidation from Mr Hamza and a group of militant young men who support him. Those officials accuse him of drawing extremist elements to the north London building, including “shoe–bomber” Richard Reid and fundamentalists who plotted to blow up the US Embassy in Paris.

Last month, anti–terrorist police raided the mosque and seized documents, computers and other items as part of an investigation into the discovery of the deadly poison ricin in a London apartment. Seven North African men were arrested, and one was charged with terrorist offenses.

The Charity Commission said the trustees "had been prevented from governing the charity properly by the activities of Abu Hamza and his supporters.

“It also found that Mr. Hamza had used his position within the charity to make inappropriate political statements.”

The commission said it began investigating al–Masri in October 2001 after he made “extreme comments” about the September 11 terrorist attacks.

An Egyptian–born British citizen who lost his hands and left eye fighting in Afghanistan and Bosnia, Mr Hamzai is wanted in Yemen on terrorist charges and has called Britain the “land of the enemies of Islam.”

On Monday he said the loss of the space shuttle Columbia was “a punishment from God” because it carried Americans, Indian–born Hindu astronaut Kalpana Chawla and Ilan Ramon, the first Israeli in space – a 'trinity of evil".

A spokeswoman for the Charity Commission said the decision had “absolutely no connection at all” with his comments about the shuttle.

Last week, one of the mosque’s trustees vowed that Mr Hamza would never again be allowed to preach there. “We can stop him,” Abdul Kadir Burkatulla, “that is what the trustees are working out at the moment.”
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=375600

For a moment I thought he was talking about the leaders in middel east.

actually we covered that already MiniMe…
http://www.theonion.com/onion3820/sexual_tension.html

Thank god they got rid of that idiot. People like him apint such a bad picture of all of us. Now if they can only exile that idiot from Mohajiroun and maybe get started on some HT head honchos we will be getting somwhere.

The sentiments of mulsims are correct, I personally know ppl who live close to Finsbury but go to other mosques, or those who have to go there because its close to work. All of them cant stand this hate spewing crook.

Sadly thats the situation in a number of places, many muslims students in Uk universities feel threatened by the extreme views and statements of HT, because it messes it up for the entire muslim population.

I think we should crack the whip on hate speech and get morons like him off the streets, same should be done in US. It should encompass other folks as well e.g. that Pat robertson moron.

Mr.Fraudia,i agree with you entirely,it doesn`t matter what religion it is supposed to represent,extreemism is bad for all of us.

Re: Your leaders are all homo`s

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Braveheart: *

I cannot believe that this guy has not been kicked out long ago,not by thr British goverment but by muslims who live in Britain.

[/QUOTE]

Kicked out of where? It is upto the British government to kick him out of the country, no other authority can do that. But it begs the question, why have they not upto now? He has made hugely racist, extremist and hateful statements that would surely violate British hate-crime laws? Why has he not been arrested by the British authorities? Ask yourself that question before pointing the fingers at Muslims?

He does not represent the 99.9% of British Muslims who find his views frankly un-Islamic, and want nothing whatsoever to do with him. In fact as Fraudia has said he and his kind are a menace to other Muslims...and have been roundly condemned by other Muslims whenever the British media has given them the chance to challenge his views and statements. But that begs the second question that you should ask yourself. Why is this man and his hateful talk given such prime coverage by the UK media? Why are the views of mainstream Muslims not given the coverage by the UK media that they deserve, and this man is given such great coverage? Think about this and my first question...

Can I take this opportunity to ask how do most mosques get Maulvi Sahiban? Are they recruited by the founders of the mosque? Or by the people who go to the mosque or those who give chanda there? Or is there a society or council that appoints different people at different mosques?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Can I take this opportunity to ask how do most mosques get Maulvi Sahiban? Are they recruited by the founders of the mosque? Or by the people who go to the mosque or those who give chanda there? Or is there a society or council that appoints different people at different mosques?
[/QUOTE]

It varies from mosque to mosque. Some regions have a council of local Muslim leaders who appoint imams. Other get chosen by the people there, others get appointed by the funders, etc. There's no standard procedure.

Do Imam's apply or is it like a hear & see resume? It seems, it goes like the Baptist Churches down here, where people are looking for one and so they ask around & from a gruop of available Imams they pick one?

ahmadjee it comes as no surprise to me that he must have been one of the many available 'worthy' candidates for the job.. how different do you think are the views of other 'Imams'?

jissay kahtay hain naa.. avaay ka avaa hee bigrRa hooa hay..

yeah but many times ppl "picking" an imam have no clue about his beliefs, they look at his "resume" and some references. Its only after the guy has started that they figure out what a looney he really is, and then it becomes a pure game of politics. Kinda like hiring someone who you cant fire easily because it has some serious repurcussions.

I know people who have in the past resigned from committees that run masjids because they dont like how the place is being run but the politics are way too much for them to solve the problem. I also know ppl for whom being on the board is like a popularity contect and once theya re there, not only are they not qualified to run the place but they dont have the basic skills to figure out who is right and who is not to be a preacher there or how things get done.

This dude is an extreme case. I have been to many masajid and have found most imams to be decent ppl. In some cases they were way too political and thats all theyw ere concerned with. But then again they dont really have annual performance reviews or some sort of feedback mechanisms for the congregation to complain that they dont like the way some imamas are. Once they have teh foot in the door its like a fiefdom for them, they attract ppl like themselves and anyone who opposes them has to face thw wrath of their supporters.

In these cases ppl just leave and start attending another masjid. The viewpoint was, I dont have the time or pateince ot change this, so I might as well go somewhere else and not deal with this.

Re: Re: Your leaders are all homo`s

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

Kicked out of where? It is upto the British government to kick him out of the country, no other authority can do that. But it begs the question, why have they not upto now? He has made hugely racist, extremist and hateful statements that would surely violate British hate-crime laws? Why has he not been arrested by the British authorities? Ask yourself that question before pointing the fingers at Muslims?

He does not represent the 99.9% of British Muslims who find his views frankly un-Islamic, and want nothing whatsoever to do with him. In fact as Fraudia has said he and his kind are a menace to other Muslims...and have been roundly condemned by other Muslims whenever the British media has given them the chance to challenge his views and statements. But that begs the second question that you should ask yourself. Why is this man and his hateful talk given such prime coverage by the UK media? Why are the views of mainstream Muslims not given the coverage by the UK media that they deserve, and this man is given such great coverage? Think about this and my first question...
[/QUOTE]

Well unfortunatly the British goverment doesn`t see things as clearly as i do,i would have had him out in a heartbeat but we have the situation where he is afforded certain protection by the law,he has a lawyer fighting his case,so we shall have to wait until that process is complete.You see there is such a thing as free speech in this country.

Now as to your question,i was not pointing any finger of blame on anyone,i was merely stating that it would not have surprised me if muslims had,on their own,got rid of him,considering the way that 99.99% of them dont agree with him and to be honest he and his like are causing a lot of bad feeling toward the muslims.There are a lot of people as you well know,who do not follow the news as closely as you and i,who would take one look at them and instantly put all muslims in the same category.I cannot speak for the press or their actions regarding him but you know what they are like,remember how much coverage the likes of Peter Sutcliffe(Yorkshire ripper) got.However,whenever i have seen him on the news,they have always had someone from the muslim community there to respond and they have always responded the same way,we dont agree with this guy.

Braveheart

I understand what you are tring to say, and Malik took it as a question or complaint when it was not. Let me try to give you some answers for questions you have not asked :) but may be in the back of your mind.

Yeah they would have moved them out if they were not threatened by his goons. ask any muslim college student how they feel about the vicious HT ppl parading around.

See the things ppl like him take advantage of are their proected status in UK, had he said something that the govt in another country, lets say Saudi Arabia did not like, he would be hung upside down and getting slapped around by old rubber sandals for breakfast lunch teattime and dinner. they take advantage of the protection and laws of the same countries which they incite hatred against.

The other factor ppl like him take advantage of is apathy. Its been a curse, People view it as, its not my problem, i just go to this mosque to pray, if i get too fed up I will just go to another place because I am not here to change the world. Pretty standard approach, you may disagree may say a thing or two but when you realize that its not making a change you just change where you go for prayers.

I have done that, for all my talk about how the preachers need to be real scholars and educated visionary leaders, I have stopped going to mosques where i felt that the imaam was always harping on politics and that i did not learn anything and did not find the khutba (sermon) enriching, rewarding or educational.

I recall as a teenager, i despised such screaming political types. I told my mum that i dont want to go to a certain place because I dont want to be associated with those ppl, she had said, if you are not going to show the ppl that not everyone is like this guy and his cronies, they will set your image in the eyes of many. I loolk back and think, how true her words were.

When ppl like I stop going to a mosque because the imaam there is clearly more political than a religious or spiritual guide. He starts attracting ppl who think like him there, soon ppl of thatmidset become a very aggressive and very vocal minority. Not the type of people you want to mess with. In this moron's case his supporters congregated at Finsbury and drove away the others from there, except those who just wanted to go pray and leave.

The challenge i think is to the people, and to the managing committees of such mosques to sort the problem. The challenge is that mosques unliek churches are independent with no real hierarchy, so if some psycho takes on the position of my mosque and the committe is unwilling or unable to do anything about it, orthe committe becomes filled with his supporters, or enough to keep others quiet, the battle is lost, I cant do jack.

It pisses me off that ppl like him are allowed to be in such positions, and I personally have a lot of questions not just for authorities who let him spew his hatred for such a long time, but also for the managing committee of that mosque..why did they not take any steps to oust him, after all its UK. They are talking about being initimidated by him and his militant thugs but did they complain to the police, did the take any action. Saying that he is not wanted because its private property and they have a right to refuse his entry would ahve been a good enough reason.

They shoukld be questioned too, so in future, officials of a mosque either become more proactive and keep it as a decent place of worshipa nd not allow vermin liek him to pollute the place, or be held accountable. Hopefully it will reduce the number of people who treat such positions as some popularity contest as well as decrease apathy in resolving problems.

Thank you Fraudz,you are right,i was not having a go at muslims at all,except for Abu Hamza and his cronies.I tell you it made my blood boil listening to hi and his goons,especially when ,if they where not in a country that enjoys free speech,they couldn`t spew their hate like that.

I have to ask though,how did this guy get into this position,i am not one to call another stupid but his intelligence has to be questioned when refers to all western leaders as homosexual,maybe some of them are but thats not the point,his goons dont seem to have a mind of their own either,they just repeat his speeches(i was going to say sermons,but somehow it doesn`t fit)word for word.

Braveheart

Thats my exact question, how did the officials of the mosque allow him to be in power. Even if we give them the beenfit of the doubt that they did not know the real him when they hired him, or he looked real good on paper.

At what point should they have moved to kick him out? why did they not think he should be ousted, if they did why did they not act upon it, and if they acted and it failed, how and why.

Then they will cry that the government is putting them under a microscope. But really this should be investigated and it should be made clear that if you are among the officials of a mosque and u have hired an idiot like him, and he is causing a ruckus, u have the ability to get rid of him, law enforcement will help you with it. whether its a restraining order or whatever but ppl like him can be kicked out. The other message that needs to go out is that the officials need to be responsible for what their facilities are being used for, if they are being used for hate speech by someone they appointed/selected etc either they have to get rid of him or they may face legal actions since they are the managers of teh facility.

call me harsh, I am sure someone will, but this is the only way to let officials know that if they need help to stop some of this lameness, the help is there, and if they chose apathy, then they may face the consequences.

guv, you questioning his intelligence? I am sure he is a very intelligent man otherwise he would not have been able to build a following, but its intelligence fueling his pure hatred and prejudice.

Yep that is a real problem for the goverment,i mean they are damned if they do and they are damned if they dont crack down on his likes,which means that the UK govt.starts to make tougher immigration laws,which makes muslims and others feel persecuted and on and on.The damage this kind of guy causes everybody is unbelievable.

Good ridance :k:

The same commitee who appointed him in the masjid, is also the same comittee that kicked his behind out.

Hamza spewed so much hatred and yet he claimed benefits etc.. from the very goverment he ridicules, where is the logic in that!

Just a couple of questions Dai-sista,as i had not heard that he was living on state benefits.Do immans not get paid to be in this position? That would make me even more angry,if we are paying to keep this guy and he is spewing hate against us because if he is on benefit and working then surely he would be liable for prosecution for that.
Also do immans have any formal training of any sort like priests do?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dai_sista: *

Hamza spewed so much hatred and yet he claimed benefits etc.. from the very goverment he ridicules, where is the logic in that!
[/QUOTE]

Here's some more logic. Salman Rushdie also spewed hatred against the very same government which spent £1million a year to protect his ass and yet he didn't get prosecuted.

For the same reason I guess Hamza hasn't been prosecuted either. Freedom of speech is a tricky business. The government is right not to be too hasty in cracking down on it without considering all sides.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Braveheart: *

Just a couple of questions Dai-sista,as i had not heard that he was living on state benefits.Do immans not get paid to be in this position? That would make me even more angry,if we are paying to keep this guy and he is spewing hate against us because if he is on benefit and working then surely he would be liable for prosecution for that.
Also do immans have any formal training of any sort like priests do?
[/QUOTE]

yes, he was living on state benefits and i m glad he has been stopped. finally a good step in the right direction.

Generally, Imams get paid by the mosque donations but I think the guy was milking the system or maybe he wasn't get paid. I think the guy should be sent to Syria or wherever he comes from