Your ethnic background

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khattana: *
Caste is Gujjar from both mother and father. Gujjars are a large caste ranging from nomadic tribes in Kashmir to Land owning chaudhries in Punjab. I am originally from Dist Gujrat in Punjab from a proud family- our family tree goes back to 1000AD to Hindu ancestors- although I am not sure how accurate it is!! Most famous Gujjars are - Chaudhary Rehmat Ali, the forgotten visionary who named Pakistan & Chaudhary Fazal Elahi the President of Pakistan preceding Gen Zia. These days Gujjars are also linked with violence mainly due to Punjabi films like- Vehshi Gujjar, Kala Gujjar, Gujjar da vair etc etc. !!
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Katthana, I guess CH of gujrats are JATTs? not that I care about them. I think they are different from Gujjars. My family also comes from Gujrat , my father moved to Lahore
I am a rajput!

i dont know what is more hilarious - someone who knows nought on indians making sweeping comments on rajput bravado, or talk of purity of bloodlines from a rajput seeking to curry ethnic favor with pashtuns. :hehe:

Queer, let me share with you my understanding of the rajput bravado...these are the true rajputs, not the ones currently posting on a thread. In February, I did an academic tour of Rajashtan..I wrote this little blurb right after the trip.

Honor

I just returned from a ten day long visit to Rajasthan. Although, I had been there a few times before, it was different this time. The splendor of Rajputana Udaipur and ChittoRghar and Udai SIngh and Rana Pratap Singh brought back memories of stories I read in India in my early youth.

Johar: A ritual of collective sati and fighting till death upon incumbing defeat and the incoming raping and pillage at the hands of invaders. (read: Islamic hordes and in one case Akbar's armies)

It is said that when Akbar was on the verge of victory through Man Singh's shifting of loyaties to his side, the rajput women of chittoRgarh fort committed johar. THeir husbands, brothers, fathers (13000 in all) who were the last line of defense for the fort spread the ashes from the pyre on their foreheads and rode out to meet their enemies and died whle killing upto 50000 of Akbar's men.

Upon learning of what transpired, Akbar gave ChittoRgarh to Man Singh and declared that never again would the Moghul army march towards it. For that he is revered throughout the region, unlike his Grandson Aurengzeb who time upon time committed mass atrocities and defamed temples and other historical sites in the same way the pre-mughal islamic invaders like Ghazni did.

THe spirit of the Rajput still lives among the people of Rajasthan, they will tell you quite proudly that they never subjugated to invaders. They kept fighting the Moghuls and others. In their songs and stories one can be taken back to the 1500's when honor and duty superceded life itself.

Matsui, wait till you see posts from “rajputs” now on how true rajputs were all sauras who founded saurashtra, and some of whom converted to hinduism and buddhism while most waited for islam. morons wouldnt know where saurashtra is on the map. if they knew, they wouldnt mention it - what “rajput” would want to be guju? :hehe:

Kem cho?

said maharana pratap said to his galudio the chetak..

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by RajputFury: *
*

Rajput Bro, i am looking up for a good resource i will also give to you. Well i personally think it might be true coz they are aunique from other typical INDIANS, i didnt know but when i saw it on TV i was just amazed...they wore the same female cloths as ours..and had their TURBANS done like us...and also the lifstyle which matters alot. yeah i have and there is no doubt. the Sythians wer a ARYAN tribe. i also read in a book that when ISLAM ariived in AFGHANISTAN the Rajputs fleed coz they didnt wana convert into ISLAM so thats why they became seperate ethnic like from us. yeah offcourse, i am going this november..inshallah i'll see whati find there.
**

Aryan bro, your 100% correct. If you look at all of India, you will find no other group that is as fearless and war like. But you know what the Rajput problem is? They never unite.

Aryan bro, there are many people who claim to be Rajput but look like dravidians...I am very sad that many of the pure bloodlines have been lost but there are still some remaining.

**
Yes well indeed it is, for me it was very interesting coz most of our history has been hidden and lost. Same here bro our ANCESTORS left us PROUD. bro that is same saying in our language and we have another similar... goes like this: "The Shamla (TURBAN) of a Afghan / Pakhtun is only lowered when praying to GOD"..it goes smthing like this...but yeah see the similarities...
nways i'll try to find some more info on this for u...okz...till then keep well.

Da Allah Pa Aman **

^

I like the way you think, bro. The only people who lie about there ancestors, are those who weak and feel shameful about them. We should be proud of what our forefathers did and NEVER let them down. In my tribe, if I would do something wrong, I would be insulting my ancestors. Without ghairat, there is point in living.

Keep up the good work :)

Khuda Da Mal Sha.
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Beautiful Bro, yeah that is true. the are GHAIRATI but they wuld've been twice as if they had become MUSLIMS. nways that was GODs will. That is the same thing here with, though i fighting matters we UNITE like a single sword.

That is also the prob here, most ppl claim Pashto ancestory and they neva have know any Pashtuns. i am thankful to god for giving us such a adventurous history with full victories.

THanx bro jan. yes we know who they are, they call themselves by our name and do bad things and giv our ethnic a bad name. WITHOUT HONOR LIFE IS NOTHING, this is in one of Khushal Babas poem.

Yep you too bro, peace be with u..

heh good Pashto. Allah De Mal Sha

Queer, who is talking about India? I am referring to Pakistan based Rajputs, many of whom have made these claims despite being of a dravidian stock. I respect anyone who comes out says who they are. It’s the liars who I have trouble with. Don’t preach to me about currying any favors..It is not my fault if many people decide to “upgrade” their background…I say upgrade, because why the hell would you lie about it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Queer, let me share with you my understanding of the rajput bravado...these are the true rajputs, not the ones currently posting on a thread. In February, I did an academic tour of Rajashtan..I wrote this little blurb right after the trip.

[/QUOTE]

^

Example of a coward...Come out and say it son, if your calling me me fake...come out and say to my face :D Don't hide behind the keyboard...You want to talk about honor let me face you straight up.

You can do all your "academic" BS and write your Blurbs...but when I meet my Rajput bros its all putting it up front. If you have a problem with I said say it straight out...yes Rajput blood has been diluted, ask any true Rajasthani Rajputs...while your doing that, bring up the Bhattis...What makes you think that I am not proud of Rajputs who are Sikhs or Hindus? Your doing nothing but supporting what I have said.

^

Another coward..Say it Straight straight up beta. Read up on Gujus, Rajputs, Sauras and Scythians (Sakas). Ever hear of Guju-Sakas? Your a brainy South Indian, don’t disappoint me by not being EDUCATED on what you talk about. Before Hinduism, Buddhism there were indegious/animistic beliefs..something that the Scythians followed. If they converted to Hinduism, Buddhism and later Islam it doesn’t mean that came without a belief system and were ignorant until the Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims “educated” them. If you call me a moron, better be ready to

You Indians by your cowardly, side swiping comments really drive my point home. I have had arguments with many Indian Rajputs, but true to their race they have come out and said it up from-- Something that ya’ll cant do. Want some Rajputfury? Your gonna get it.

according to darwin everyone's background is.... ape

Matty and Queer..Ready for this? Unlike you I won’t go underhandedly. See it’s like this: For you all it’s all about narrowminded Indianness…For me it goes beyond that…Hey I even got you an Indian source, so you won’t discredit it Read up:

Source: AKAI123 : Platform Mobile Untuk Login ke Akai 123 Anti Lelet Terbaru
Origin of the Saka Races

Collapse of the Brahminist Empire

By Khshatrapa Gandasa

The Sakas
The Scythians inhabiting Central Asia at the time of Herodotus (5th century B.C.) consisted of 4 main branches known as the MassaGatae, Sacae, Alani, and Sarmatians, sharing a common language, ethnicity and culture. Ancient Greek (e.g. Herodotus, Pliny, Plotemy, Arrian) and Persian sources (Darius’s historians) from the 5th century place the MassaGatea as the most southerly group in the Central Asian steppe. The earliest Scythians who entered the northern regions of South Asia were from this group. Historians derive “Jat” fom “Gatae”, “Ahir” from “Avar”, “Saka” from “Scythii”, “Gujjar” from “Khazar”, “Thakur” from “Tukharian”, “Saurashtra” from “Saura Matii” or “Sarmatians”, “Sessodia” (a Rajput clan) from “Sassanian”, “Madra” from “Medes”, “Trigartta” from “Tyri Getae” and “Sulika” from “Seleucids”. “Massa” means “grand” or “big” in old Iranian - the language of the Scythians.

The early Sakas or Scythians are remembered by Greek (e.g. Herodotus, Megatheses, Pliny, Ptolemy) and Persian historians of antiquity as tall, large framed and fierce warriors who were unrivalled on the horse. Herodotus from the 5th century BC writes in an eye-witness account of the Scythians: “they were the most manly and law-abiding of the Thracian tribes. If they could combine under one ruler, they would be the most powerful nation on earth.” According to their origin myth recorded by Herodotus, the Sakas arose when three things fell from the sky: the i) plough, ii) sword and iii) cup. The progenitor of the Sakas picked them up and hence the Saka race began its long history of conquering lands, releasing its bounties and enjoying the fruits of their labor (the cup has a ceremonial-spiritual-festive symbolism). The relevance of these symbols and codes of life and culture to the traditional Punjabi and northwest society are tantalizingly obvious. A branch of the Sakas kown as the Alani reached regions of Europe, Asia Minor and the Middle East. They have been connected to the Goths of France/Spain, Saxons and the Juts of Denmark.

Entry into India
Some of these Saka tribes entered northwest India through the Khyber pass, others through the more southerly Bolan pass which opens into Dera Ismail Khan in Sindh – an entry point into Gujarat and Rajasthan. From here some invading groups went north (Punjab), others went south (Maharasthra), and others further east (UP, MP). This explains why some Jat, Gujjar and Rajput clans claim descent from Rajasthan (Chauhan, Powar, Rathi, Sial etc.) while others from Afghanistan (e.g. Mann, Her, Bhullar, Gill, Bajwa, Sandhu, etc.). This is supported by the fact that the oldest Rajput geneologies (10th centuries) do not extend into the northwest’s Gandharan Buddhist period (400 B.C. - 900 AD).

Sir Cunningham (former Director General of Indian Archeological survey) writes:

"the different races of the Scythians which succesively appeared as conquerors in the border provinces of Persian and India are the following in the order of arrival: Sakas or Sacae (the Su or Sai of the Chinese - B.C. ?), Kushans (the great Yue-Chi (Yuti) of the Chinese - B.C. 163), Kiddarite or later Kushans (the little Yue-chi of the Chinese - A.D. 450) and Epthalites or White Huns (the Yetha of the Chinese - 470 A.D.).

Cunningham further notes that

". . . the successive Scythian invasions of the Sakas, the Kushans, and the White Huns, were followed by permanent settlements of large bodies of their countrymen . . ".

Cunningham and Tod regard the Huns to be the last Scythian wave to have entered India.

Herodotus reveals that the Scythians as far back as the 5th century B.C. had political control over Central Asia and the northern subcontinent up to the river Ganges. Later Indo-Scythic clans and dynasties (e.g. Mauryas, Rajputs) extended their control to other tracts of the northern subcontinent. The largest Saka imperial dynasties of Sakasthan include the Satraps (204 BC to 78 AD), Kushanas (50 AD - 380), Virkas (420 AD - 640) while others like the Mauryas (324 - 232 BC) and Dharan-Guptas (320 AD - 515) expanded their empires towards the east.

According to Ethnographers and historians like Cunningham, Todd, Ibbetson, Elliot, Ephilstone, Dahiya, Dhillon, Banerjea, etc., the agrarian and artisan communities (e.g. Jats, Gujars, Ahirs, Rajputs, Lohars, Tarkhans etc.) of the entire west are derived from the war-like Scythians who settled north-western and western South Asia in successive waves between 500 B.C. to 500 AD. Down to this day, the very name of the **region Gujarat' is derived from the name Khazar’, whilst Saurashtra' denotes Sun-worshipper’, a common term for the Scythians. The Gujarat-Rajasthan region continues to be the most Scythic region in the world. **

The oldest Rajputs clans found in southern and western Rajasthan arose much later from earlier Scythic groups; or are of Hun origin (5-6th century AD); and many are no doubt of mixed Scythic-Hun origin. Virtually all are of Scythic descent.

Sakastan : The Saka States
Uptil the advent of Mohammed Ghori in the 13th century, the west and northwest was politically unified with the subcontinent for only 92 years under the Mauryas since the start of Saptha Sindhva’s Vedic period (1500 BC). For most of its independant history it was under the rule of Saka kings. The west was also independant from the rest of India, existing under its Saka dynasties for virtually the entire period of history. The term `Sakastan’ which is found on coins, was applied to the Rajasthan-Gujarat core region, and at its greatest extent included Punjab, UP and Haryana as well.

The largest Saka imperial dynasties of Sakasthana include the Satraps (204 BC to 78 AD), Kushanas (50 AD - 380), Virkas (420 AD - 640) while others like the Mauryas (324 - 232 BC) and Dharan-Guptas (320 AD - 515) expanded their empires towards the east. A brief selected list of Saka rulers of Punjab and the northwest spanning 16 centuries includes Porus (4th century BC), Mauryas (3rd century BC), Rudradaman, Azes, Maues, Soter Megas (2nd century BC), Azilises, Wima Kadphises (1st century AD), Kanishka I, Haviska (2nd century), Vasudeva (3rd century), Vyaghra rata and Yasovardhana.

Mauryas
The Mauryas were themselves perhaps of Scythic origin. D.B. Spooner who evacuated Pataliputra was struck by his findings and writes in his article “The Zoroastrian Period of Indian History” as follows:

“For Chandragupta’ s times, the evidences are more numerous and more detailed, and indicate a following of Persian customs all along the line - in public works, in ceremonial, in penal institutions, everything”.

The theory of a Scythic descent of the Mauryas is supported by the following pieces of evidence :

Mauryan coins have the symbol of the sun, a branch, a humped bull and mountain (Dehiya, p.155). All these are pre-eminently Scythian MassaGetae icons who were Sun worshippers with the high mount symbolizing earth and the irregular curving lines alongside it symbolizing water. The tree branch is a symbol of productivity of the earth - agriculture and soldiering were the traditional noble occupations of Sakas. The historians of Darius record that when he attempted to attack the Scythian MassaGetae (an old-Iranian culture of Central Asia) along the Black sea in the 5th century BC, “the Saka kings swore by the sun god and refused to surrender earth and water”.

The clan name of Toramana and Mahirgula, viz Jauvla, is still available among Indian Jats who are now called Jauhl.

Jat/Gujar clans and villages named Maur and Dharan exist even today in Punjab, Haryana, Bihar and western MP.

The Puranas do not even refer to the largest imperial dynasties of the north such as the Mauryas (324 - 232 BC) and Dharan Guptas (320 AD - 515) as “Kshatriyas”. Regarding the Mauryas, Dehiya [p.147] states “Another indication of the foreign origin ie. Saka ] of these people is . . . The Vishnu Purana calls them Gupta rulers ] Sudras. The Markandeya Purana brands the Mauryas as Asura. The Yuga Purana called them `utterly irreligious, though posing as religious’. The Mudra Rakshasa calls these people as Mlecchas and Chandragupta himself is called ‘Kulahina’, an upstart of unknown family”.

It has also been suggested that this Scythic influence was occasioned by the immigration of Iranic Scyhtians fleeing the Greek conquest. Be that as it may, the fact remains that the main civilizing impetus behind the Mauryan empire was Scythic.

Dateless revisionist Brahmanist monkey tales with reincarnating imaginary devtas may lie BUT inscriptions/coins texts do not - unless read by crooked and bigoted Brahmin and Bania historians like Majumdar and Bhevelkar turning “Jarta” (Sanskrit for “Jata”) into “Guptas” and “Gartas” into “Guha” (cave)! Only unbiased non-Brahminist research can help uncover the true past of the Scythians of India.

Queer, I am going to make you eat your words buddy. Lets talk Saurasthra:

Source: http://www.mewarindia.com/ency/sat.html

Saurashtra (Kathiawar), (country of the Sauras or Sun-worshippers), the peninsula that forms a major part of Gujarat. It was settled by nomadic Rajputs (ca 2nd century AD). One of its capitals was the city of VALLABHI, thought to be the ancestral home of Rawal GUHIL, founder of the GUHILOT Dynasty (forerunner of the Mewar Dynasty).

Now Matty, I can understand why you would want to make Rajputs under the Brahmin fold:

Source: http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/hindumanyraces.htm

Rajputs are Scythian - The Rajputs are descendants of Scythic (East Iranic) immigrants who entered India much after the Aryans. Although false genealogies were invented by the Aryan Brahmins in order to subvert the Rajput religion of Solarism (`Saura’) and convert them to the 6 astika schools of Brahmanism, a detailed analysis shows that the Rajputs are Scythics.

Great and very informative. Bro if they don't still agree with us on the CLAIMING ANCESTRY then they are liers and .......

And Bro, there is still a Afghan Tribe with the name of SAKA.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
Great and very informative. Bro if they don't still agree with us on the CLAIMING ANCESTRY then they are liers and .......

And Bro, there is still a Afghan Tribe with the name of SAKA.
[/QUOTE]

Aryan bro, you see this? I mean just now you were telling me about how the Rajputs seem different from Indians, well this is the proof. And you know what? The funny thing is that these are all non Muslim sources too...So these guys can't tell me that I am making things up. I have tons more books and sources but they are not online unfortunately.

We do not need to CLAIM anything, our actions can show the world who we are ;)

Salaam to you.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
And Bro, there is still a Afghan Tribe with the name of SAKA.
[/QUOTE]

Very interesting. I am glad that Afghans have kept the old names, if you can find any more info, please do post it here. I am very impressed by your knowledge. I think that we all benefit from these exchanges because they help us in understanding who we are and where we stand.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *

Aryan bro, you see this? I mean just now you were telling me about how the Rajputs seem different from Indians, well this is the proof. And you know what? The funny thing is that these are all non Muslim sources too...So these guys can't tell me that I am making things up. I have tons more books and sources but they are not online unfortunately.

We do not need to CLAIM anything, our actions can show the world who we are ;)

Salaam to you.
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RajPut Bro, man this is how liers react to the TRUTH. They are scared and emabarssed by their childish comments about our ancestries. Yeah and the interesting point is that its not written by any RAJPUT in which case they would never have believed it. Bro i too have heaps of books, though scanning them for online purpose would take me ages and cant be bothered.

Bro very intellectual. its them who try to create connection with us not US.

[QUOTE]
Very interesting. I am glad that Afghans have kept the old names, if you can find any more info, please do post it here. I am very impressed by your knowledge. I think that we all benefit from these exchanges because they help us in understanding who we are and where we stand.
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Offcourse they have some date back thousands of years. There are heaps of similar names though our HISTORY is been ignored miserably by the so called foreign scholars. THANX broda, i have leart from you too and this has benifited us very positvely we both learn the similarities and know more about other people.

OK so wait and see what those stupid reply with again.

Till then take care and God be with you.

Khudai De Mal Sha

What about Brahmins and Chooras then where do they fit into all this?

THREAD LOCKED.:nahnah:

I’ve actually heard that before too. It kinda makes you wonder, doesn’t it. :slight_smile: