Fanatic, huh? Well, that's a new one for me
:)
We all used to believe in the caste system before but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't reject it now that we know better.
BTW, if there is actually any Hindu who believes in Hinduism on this forum I would like to hear from you, and I will be the first to demand that your religious beliefs be protected from slander and abuse. Let's hear from you.
Xtreme, those are very kind words!
My forefathers were Hindus; so that makes me related to the Hindus and them to me.
Regards,
Abdul Malick
My forefathers were always muslims because I am a SYED and decendent of the family of prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Anyway it doesn't matter what you were before now you are muslims!
Naila
Given the response, it seems that entire Pakistan is of the people who came from Arabia with no local ancestors. It is interesting that no Hindu found Islam interesting enough to convert despite armed raids.
ZZ,
Stating statement with a high tone of sarcasm doesn't yield that history agrees with your opinion. The fact remains same,
"Not all the pakistanis were hindus before (period)"
A small trip down to local library's history section would be more than enough to invalidate your opinion.
Mr. ZZ what is a big deal about ancestors. If they were Kafirs, they are bound to Hell fire. Let's think about ourselves, before we die. Its only one chance, live as a Muslim, and more importantly DIE AS A MUSLIM.
Think about it. Study Islam, its the only way of SALVATION ( in this world and in hereafter)
Regards
I can't believe you guys are so much hung up on this topic....
Who cares what was your forefathers' religious orientation??? Even more, why does it matter what your religious affliation was/is/will be???
Aren't we supposed to be individual human beings first??? and beyond that it's none of anybody's business whether you worship one God or a dozen.... whether you want to go to heaven after death or by riding a commet.
Jesus, guys, don't you have anything bit more productive to talk about?
Imranz – could you please tell us about your ancestors: Where they are from and How they arrived to the Indian sub-continent ? We are very interested!
Niluhussain – there are literally thousands of people with your kind of claims; Everybody has got an ancestor who came from Arabia or Central Asia.
I suggest: you, Imranz and others to please read the following:
Islam in the India-Pakistan subcontinent was much more disruptive than British colonial rule. There probably has been no imperialism like that of Islam and the Arabs.
Islam seeks, as an article of the faith, to erase the past; the believers in the end honour Arabia alone, they have nothing to return to; like Salman, a Pakistani journalist who states:
"We have nearly all, subcontinental Muslims, invented Arab ancestors for ourselves. Most of us are Sayeds, descendants of Mohammed through his daughter Fatima and cousin and son-in-law Ali.
There are others--like my family--who have invented a man called Salim al-Rai. And yet others who have invented a man called Qutub Shah. Everybody has got an ancestor who came from Arabia or Central Asia."
Allama Iqbal came from a recently converted Hindu family; and perhaps only someone who felt himself a new convert could have spoken as he did...Iqbal said in an involved way that – "Muslims can live only with other Muslims."
Iqbal's background is detailed in Ram Nath Kak's Autumn Leaves (New Delhi: Vitasta, 1995, ISBN: 81-86588-01-9):
His grandfather, Sahaj Ram Sapru, a revenue collector, [allegedly] embezzled funds and when discovered, the Afghan governor, Azim Khan, gave him the choice of death or conversion to Islam. Sahaj Ram chose life, and assuming new names, he and his family moved to Sialkot in the Punjab.
Iqbal never acknowledged his native Kashmiri and Indian tradition that his grandfather had been forced to renounce.
Mr Roman I don't know what UR beliefs are, but being as a muslim, and in Ummah of my beloved Mastes SAW, its my duty to educate humanity about Islam, let them know, in advance, what we all will face after death, and prepare , and encourage others to prepare for death and life after death.
I agree with you, that it does not matter who your ancestors were. All it matters that how do you behave in this world, you will be rewarded accordingly.
Regards
abrar - Not to speak of in the context of this thread, but as a general scenario to your point:
[quote]
...as a muslim, and in Ummah of my beloved Mastes SAW, its my duty to educate humanity about Islam, let them know, in advance, what we all will face after death, and prepare , and encourage others to prepare for death and life after death
[/quote]
True, and you have the complete right to abide by the above, same as the people who have the complete right to choose NOT to talk about the things mentioned above.
It's only reasonble if the person you are talking to is listening or wants to know.
Many times I have faced situations where religious people in a gathering start talking to me about the kind of stuff you mentioned above. The problem is that by talking to me, they were using my time and attention. If I don't want to listen to it, hey, nobody can force me to.
But the worst part is when people starts judging others based on if they do or don't want to talk about religion.
This is where one needs to be careful in judging the ones who believe that religious beliefs are personal matters. If I am a Hindu or a Sikh or a Jew, or an Athiest or whatever my religious affliation is, If I don't want to disclose it to anybody or don't want to discuss it, it is my proragative and absolute right. Any judgement based on such restraint from a religious conversation would be inaccurate, ignorant, and completely impertinent.
If your religion asks you to preach you to humanity, fine, but there are also people in this world who believe that they don't want to be preached and they have the same proragative to want that as you.
Mr. Roman
I beleive this forum is meant to discuss, talk anything about religion. So I did. It's upto the reader to read it or ignore it. There are people who are interested in religious discussion, that is why they are here, oterwise they wouldn't be here. I don't know about you!
Regards
Abrar Sahib,
As a liberal muslim I do not appreciate this rascist belief of yours - that everybody, other than you, is a kafir and doomed to eternal hell; and that salvation lies in Sunni Islam.
Sir, if you are adamant in preaching this extremist view, then I suggest you also be ready to take the criticism that will surely follow.
abrar - I was not talking about this forum, that's why I said
[quote]
Not to speak of in the context of this thread, but as a general scenario...
[/quote]
It's the attitude which I pointed out, wherever that may exist.
Roman,
I agree that this issue is of very little or no significance, Yet, when people state their perspective out loud(in public forums such as this one), making it sound like a factual statement, others have the right to judge as well as express their opinion.
AM,
For your message, I would only refer you back to my post in this thread that I posted in your reply. Mere production of few paragraphs from an article with an example of a known pakistani artist neither invalidates my point of view nor does it support yours
Indoz:
Why did you change your Knick?
[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 23, 1999).]
Mr AM I beg you pardon. Can you prove what you have just said about my reply. In my post nowhere I claimed, what you have said. Neither I mentioned about Sunnis. Please stop twisting the posts. I plainly said, Kafirs ( if they die as a kafir) are bound to hell... If they accept Islam before the Die, they are not Kafirs anymore... Do you have any doubts or can you prove it wrong ( I need proofs from Quran and Hadith).
Regards
[This message has been edited by abrar (edited June 23, 1999).]
Br Abrar:
This person does not understand the polite language. He has blamed me also with same kinds of accusations. His problem is that he can not write from his own. All he can do is copy and paste from other web sites. When ever he writes from his own all the words he can write are as
Adbulmalick
[quote]
Life is a bitch....then you marry one
[/quote]
He wrote this in the general forum (First time he wrote this, they snipped his post, then he posted the same words again and they snipped his post again)
Adbulmalick
[quote]
You filthy Kafir
[/quote]
He wrote this about a Muslim brother in this religious forum
So, please do not mind if this person blame you about something falsely.......
An other thing I would like to tell you folks out there that this person is always eager to start a conflict between the shia and sunnis.
Does not matter what ever you talk, he would try to divert your attention and would try his best to start the shia sunni conflict.
So be careful about this kind of people who are kind to the non-Muslims and are prompt to start fight among the Muslims.
Imranz: Of course people have the liberty to express their opinion, as long as it remains impersonal.