You Sunnis don't know much about Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

It amazes me how the sunni community thinks of themselves as the “correct sect” who are the only ones that follow the holy prophet’s (pbuh) ways.

Well let me open your eyes to some facts - you all are way off the true Islam.

What do you guys think - that praying 5 times a day and praying only to Allah Almighty makes you the high and mighty.

Have you prayed more than Iblis (shaitan) did before he dis-obeyed his creator. Not only are you supposed to believe in the oneness (uniqueness and not oneness in terms of single as a number) but you are also supposed to obey his orders. Iblis did not obey Allah’s command to bow to prophet Adam and so he was banished. Why did all his prayers to Allah not help him ? Why was he ordered to bow to Adam (as), to someone other than Allah (swt)? You obey exactly what your creator tells you to do and do not question it.

Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Quran “obey Allah and his Apostle” and " whoever obeys the Apostle, obeys me" and “whosoever angers Allah’s Apostle takes on Allah’s wrath”.

So I would like to ask the great Sunni community, who never fail to mention that they are the MAJORITY sect of Islam. By the way, the Quran explicitly states “And the believers are in the minority”. Food for your thoughts my sunni brothers.

Let’s move on. You sunnis don’t even know how to do wuzu correctly. Hence, your prayers are wrong even before you have started. Ayat 6:6 states “And wash your hands and faces, and wipe your head and feet”. Do you all see the difference - wash your faces and hands BUT only wip or rub your head and feet. I see you Sunnis washing away at your feet and heads or some you just take a shower and calling that wuzu. Others still just wash their feet while still wearing socks. Try and understand the Qur’an before critizing. If the Christians knew of all your faults, you would not stand a chance against them in debates.

But how could you understand the deep meanings of the Qur’an when you chose to follow certain munafiqeens, labelling them sahabas while leaving behind the holy prophet’s (pbuh) glorious and sinless family, who are the true possessors of knowledge.

Go to your tirmidis amd Bukharis and see what the mightiest messenger of Allah (swt) has said of his family"

“And I leave behind two weighty things, the Quran and my Ahl-bait (family). Cling on to both of them and they will lead you to the fountains of Kauser”. Leave any one of them and you are doomed. Does the hadith say anything about Sahabahs or sunnah - which your sunni molvis have cleverly substitued for Ahl Bait (holy family).

Read your hadiths and see what the holy prophet of Allah (may my life be sacrified for him) has said of his holy daughter, Fatima Zahra (the Lady of Light):

“Fatima is the leader of the women of paradise” and " Whosoever angers Fatima, angers me and whosoever angers me, angers Allah"

So I would like to ask my Sunni brothers why is it that you force your selves to follow the likes of Aisha, who did nothing but work against Islam, was a jealous women, who hated the Ahl-Bait and all of the prophet’s wives, who was ill-mannered and angered the prophet of Allah (may we be saved from such a calamity as to anger the prophet (pbuh)). Aisha led an army in the battle of Jamal (the battle of Camel) against the first holy Imam, Imam Ali (as) where she was humiliated and defeated. The battle is famous for the fact that Aisha was riding a camel during the battle and fell into a pile of camel dung. Is this what you would call “the mother of believers” ? If you sunnis want to continue to follow such characters, be my guest, but I assure you that you are headed for doom.

And please, don’t take my word, but check these events out for yourselves. Its all in your books which you deliberately choose not to analyze so as to suit you feeble beliefs.

So we hear aboy Abu Baker, and how great he was. I would like my brothers to tell me what great feats did he achieve ? Was he a great warrior ? Did he have great knowledge of Islam and the holy Qur’an ? Was he successful in converting tribesmen to Islam ?
What exactly did this great Abu Baker do ?

Let me tell you.

He stole the caliphate away from Imam Ali (as) against the direct order of the holy apostle (pbuh). After the apostle’s (pbuh) last pilgramage, the holy prophet (pbuh) stopped the people in a place called Gadir Khum where Allah (swt) strictly commanded the holy messenger (as stated in the Qur’an) the following " And tell them, for if you do not tell them, it will be as if you did not do anything for my mission. And be not afraid of the people, for Allah will protect you"

Go read the holy Qur’an and see why this commandment was given. What was so serious that the messenger of Allah is being threathened by his Creator ?

It is after this ayat that the holy and sinless messenger (pbuh) commanded the people " And of whosoever I am the maula (leader, Imam), Ali is his Maula".

The holy apostle (pbuh), under the commandment of Allah (swt), had declared his successor after him. And remember, the holy prophet (swt) says nothing of himself, but relays only that which Allah (swt) commands. Check out your Bukharis and tirmidhis and ask youselves where you are heading.

So my sunni brothers, do you follow Imam Ali (as) as the true successor. Are you obeying the commandments of Allah and his messenger. Ofcourse not, for you choose to follow the munafiqs who have taught you the greatness of Abu Baker, Umar, and Usman.

Where were these 3 so called companions when the holy prophet (pbuh) departed from this world to his heavenly abose. The holy apostle (pbuh) had not even been buried when these 3 stooges ran to a place called Saqifah and schemed over how to take control of the Caliphate.

Could they not have waited till our beloved prophet (pbuh) was buried ? Who gave Ghusl and buried the holy prophet ? It was Imam Ali (as) and the holy Ahl Bait.

You ask the sunnis for an explanation and they say that it was in the interest of Islam that the 3 went to set-up the caliphate.

Do you sunnis actually believe this rubbish ?

  1. The successor was Imam Ali (as) and there was no need to select anyone.

  2. Would the world have come to an end to wait for the prophet’s burial rather than leave immediately on the news of the prophet’s death ?

  3. Were the holy and sinless progeny of the prophet the only ones who had the responsibility to take care of the prophet of Allah (pbuh).

What do you sunnis expect from the likes of Abu baker, Umar, and Usman, who were cowards. Their deeds include running away from battles. Umar called the holy prophet delirious and crazy at the holy messenger’s death bed when the messenger of Allah (pbuh) asked to be given a piece of paper for him to write something down. ITS IN YOU HADITHS - Bukhari and all so go read it and ponder over where you all are heading.

Abu Baker spent most of his life a kafir and only converted in his latter life to Islam, and only so because of the threat Islam was posing to him and his clan.

Abu Baker stole the land of Fadak from The Lady of Light, Fatima, the holy and sinless daughter of the holy messenger, claiming that he had heard a false hadith from the prophet stating that the prophet did not leave behind anything. This piece of land, called Fadak, was a gift given to Fatima from her father after the battle of Khaiber. Abu baker indiscriminately confisticated the land because of its immense value such the The holy Lady of Light said that she would curse Abu Baker till the day she died. So, this Baker took on himself the wrath of the prophet of Allah, and his creator and you sunnis follow him and make him your first caliph. Soon you will all be rewarded with what you have earned.

Yazid bin Muwayih (Allah’s curse be on him) slaughtered Imam Hussain (as) in the battle of Khaiber and you sunnis don’t even shed a tear. In fact you go on to call Abu Sufyan and his cursed son sahabahs ! May you all be saved from the fire.

Do you know who Imam Hussain (as) was ? See what the prophet of Allah (swt) says :

“And I am from Hussain and Hussain is from me. Whosoever hurts Hussain has hurt me”. And “Hasan and Hussain are my sons”.

Oh my prophet, they killed your Hussain yet your so called Ummat thinks that they will seek thy blessing while following and praising your grandson’s murderers, and those who stole the caliphate from your holy household, and hurt your daughter and your rightful successor - the commander of the faithful and the Imam of the time, Ali Haq Imam.

And amongst your ummat, there are Wahabis who say that no blessings should be sent on you O prophet of Allah, and who destroyed your holy daughter’s and her progeny’s tomb in Medina.

And these people openly accuse false charges against your faithful momins, your Shias, saying that the Shias have another Qur’an (may Allah curse such false propagators), that Shias say that Imam Ali (as) is God (may Allah curse such liers), that you, our holy prophet, the mightiest messenger of Allah and the seal of His line of prophethood are lesser in rank than the holy imams (may Allah curse such munafiqs who want to create dissent amongst the people).

You sunnis and your sahabahs like Umar, Usman, Abu baker, and Aisha, are the ones who called the prophet illitrate, who called him crazy, who at certain times during his apostleship doubted his prophethood (look back at all that which Umar had said), who say that the prophet needed a black box operation to have his heart cleaned out, who doubted on the completeness of the Qur’an, and all the other garbages that you now attribute to the Shiahs.

You still follow the laws of Yazid and Muwayih, and the cursed Ummayad and Abbasid leaders, who taught you and your ancestors to curse the holy prophet’s family after every Jummah prayer, and to bring don their holy status.

You all tried and failed because whereever you go, the name of the holy prophet and his sinless family, all of them Allah’s (swt) noor, is being praised and the tragedy of Imam Hussain being recounted with sorrow.

If your mothers and fathers die, you would be weeping and wailing but not a tear do you shed for his holy prophet’s family. But then again, what can be expected from you all who replicate those companions that had no love for the holy prophet and his family.

Look ate Ayat Tathir in the Qur’an where Allah (swt) says to the holy prophet and his ahl bait (family):

“And certainly, Allah wishes to remove all belmish from you, the Ahl Bait, and to give you a thorough clensing”. This ayat guarantees the holy family’s sinlessness and you compare the ordinary likes of Usman, Umar, and all with such holy personalities. Where have all your common senses gone ?

And see what the Quran says of the prophet of Allah who said to his Ummat " And I ask you nothing for my mission (towards propagation of Islam) except the love of mu ahl bait"

Love the prophet of Allah and his sinless progeny and only them will you secure paradise.

Even the murderers of Imam Hussain made sure to pray the Jummah prayers with the holy Imam’s blood stains on their bodies.

I have provided some points for you sunnis to ponder upon.

We are all muslims and must all stride for the truth. May Allah (swt) guide the righteous).

Wa Salam.

2

Oh you're in trouble now....

Insulting Abu Bakr (RA) & his daughter...& the remaining 3 Khalifas.....
I don't even know where to begin.

3

Start whereever you want my brother. No insults were intended. Just the truth which lie in the books.

I can only write what I read.

4

yea some sunni from indonesia said that Hassan died at Karbala.

5

Dear a11shah,

Let not non-muslisms make fun of us. Try to be a muslsim not a Shia or Sunny. Don't try to be significant because you are Shia, try to be significant because you are a MUSLISM. Sunnies respects all the Khalifah the same, rather it be Ali or Abu Bakr. If Allah or his prophet distinguishes between them that is the matter between them. But we all should have the same love and respect for all the caliphs and Sahabahs. If a person does not respect Fatima (may Allah be Pleased with her), I don't consider her a muslim. But if a person disgraces Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her), I don't think he is a muslim either, because she is the most loving wife of our Prophet (PBUH). You should watch before you say a word about the family of Prophet (PBUH). May Allah guide us all

6

Answer some simple question(s) in Yes or No. In the time of the prophet, were there any sects in Islam ?
Did Allah reveal more than one sect to our beloved Prophet Mohammed(SAW) ?

Today there are about 73 to 74 different sects in Islam, that were conjured up by people who were power hungry. Surely, if these sects were intended, then Prophet (SAW) would have mentioned about it and Allah (SWT) would have revealed in such a manner. Be a muslim, thats it, let Allah be the judge and I guarantee all these useless pondering are taking time away from your prayers.

Be good

7

Shah,

Although I don't like to get into Shia/Sunni issues. I really would rather not put on a show for the non-muslims here to enjoy. It is what they want. I would request you also to talk with respect and don't dare degrade our beloved sahabas and khalifa's RA, we don't degrade anyone, so why the hell would you? Better concentrate our efforts elsewhere. So lets talk with respect shall we? Nabeel is correct, if you respect family of Prophet S.A.W. so much, you wouldnt degrade Aisha (RA) now would you, she was also family!

That aside, forgive me if I am being to simple, but lets just get into basics before we get complicated, I really am not a scholar. Ok, One thing I do know is that all shiah's acknowledge the fact that Ali (RA) at the end did accept the khalifate of Abu Bakr (RA) as the first khalifa, this is correct isn't it? All reasons aside, the great Ali (RA) accepted it, he was too great and too powerful, if he truly wanted, he could have gone against it but he didn't did he??
He accepted it, thats the bottom line, if he did, who are you Shia's and who is anyone on this earth to go against what Ali (RA) did??
Are you more great then he is??
just think about this before you talk about respect and obedience. You should accept what Ali (RA) accepted period! for whatever reason he did. By not accpeting it, just remember you are going against what he accepted for the entire muslim ummah.
Take care brother
Salaam

8

how do we know this guy is a shia? so lets not make assumptions here. anyone can come up with junk off any website and paste.
good points strongman and zman,

while we dont agree with some acts performed by sunnies… like “taveez ganda”, preaching on graaves etc. we also dont agree with some acts performed by shias like cursing sahabah and beating urself in streets.

so we probably dont fit in the sunni or shia categories. and thats why we are just Muslims and would want to stay like that.

a1shah, tell us more about them sunnies…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

9

Salam,
well I've been reading all U guys have written and it's pretty much the same, we sunni's don't know much about shia's, what they are, who they are, what they believe in. U know I was ashamed to know that they and not us (eventhough we carrry the name ahl_e_sunnah) follow the holy progeny of the holy prophet. Look u know how in the quran it says search for the truth and we will guide U, or something like that, but U'll get my point right. I mean it's all up to us to find out what's right and what's wrong. That's y I've been studying my religion cuz U can't just take what URe parents give to U, U guys I assume are baligh, and U R solely responsible for URe actions. Having said that, I would like to present you guys with some points that have fell upon me like a ton of bricks.
Firstly, and foremost I would like to direct URe attention to the time of the Prophet's(pbuh) passing(known as the dreaded thursday). on this day, people were worried who would lead the muslimeen, so Imam Umer(RA), Imam Abu Bakr(RA), and other were present in the room where the Prophet(pbuh) lay. He asked for a bone and ink to write who would be his successor, everyone present knew that it would be Imam Ali(RA) because people had previously been asked to pledge allegiance to him. OK moving on, when our pyarai nabi(pbuh) asked for the bone and ink, Imam umer said no, he's under the stress of his illness(tauba tauba). As if this was not enough, they started shouting and arguing amoung themselves at which the Prophet got soo angry that he had to ask two people to carry him out(that's how sick he was) on to his pulpit where he addressed the people. He asked them "Y have U people been doubting what i say, Y do U keep back from what I do, and keep back from what I say." (that may not be the exact quote but U get the point)...anywayz. Now I would like to direct U to something from the quran which will help. In the quran it has been said to the muslimeen, "oh people, whatever muhammad gives U, take, whatever he tells U to keep from, keep back." Keeping this quote in mind, can't U see that our Imam Umer(RA) greatly faultered, how dare he say that, this isn't any guy, this our great Prophet(pbuh), he would not have been under the stress of his illness. And this has been recorded in the great book sahih tirmidi, and sahih bukhari, look under the tragedy of thursday. ok another occasion where the people kept back from what the Prophet did. At the time when the the treaty of hudaibiyyah was being signed, Imam Umer(RA) asked our Prophet(pbuh) what he thought he was doing signing the treaty, then he went to Imam Abu BAkr(RA) and asked him if this man was their prophet(PBUH). now U tell me what's up with that...no don't even try cuz the sunni historians have been trying to cover this up. Look U can again refer to our reverred sahih's and look under the treaty of hudaibeya. anywayz...moving on...what else is there...oh yeah, in the time Imam Umer(RA) was the imam, during this time yazid's dad was the kind of the arabs(like it had been before the Prphoet(pbuh) came). so Imam Umer(RA) was approached by the towns people and they complained to him that the king wore gold, and silk, and Imam Umer(RA) said "let him be for he is the kiza(king of the arabs)". Now U tell me, didn't he do this for fear of losing his Caliphate?! anywayz...moving on what else...
another thing I would like to direct URe direction to is in the quran it has been said to the muslims that they have been chosen by allah(swt) as the one's, but we should not ben mistaken and think that we can do as we wish as those before us did(christians, jews), it does not matter to him, he can choose anyone he wants. soo after the christains, he chose the bani israel, then he chose us the muslimeen, but where did the religion fall, in arabia. The arabs have fauletered miserably, (Yazid's dad and all) so god chose the turks, they faultered, then he chose the mughals, they too faultered, now he has chosen the iranis, this isn't something i've made up it's been said by a leading scholar, U all probably know him ahmed deedat.
Look I don't want to shove a ton of info down Ure throats so I think it's better if U found out for ureself, cuz god leads those who go in search. and I've been reading that this following is only a saying, it's not, it's been said by the Holy Prophet(pbuh), he said that "the christians had 71 sects, the jews 72, the muslims will have 73, and all but one will go to hell" so this line makes it absolutely important to find out what's going on here. Umm the books U should read are of course the two sahih's, so U can compare whatever U read in the shia books(mind U they aren't shia books, it's The Nahj ul Balagha, the sunnah, for who would better know the way of the prophet(pbuh), than his holy progeny) and another book U should read is called "then I was guided". This book is by a sunni cum shia scholar, when I say scholar, he's extremely learned, and it's how he was guided, the above things about Imam Umer(RA) are from this book. Another book U should read is Peshawer nights, it's question's & answer's which actually took place.
and umm a11shah, I think U should be more smoother in preaching, yeah I know it pisses the hell out of U when people say things like that...inshallah I can depend on U for more help in this matter.
laterz people,
waslam

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

10

Lets us not try to fall in the trap set by shaitan...for he is the true enemy of the believers...he wants to divide us...
In shias he finds ppl only too willing to insult Abu-Bakr(RA) who was the first adult male muslim and gave his daughter Aisha(RA) in wedlock to the holy prophet(PBUH), and Aisha who was amongst the ahle-bait (how can they deny it!), and Umar(RA) for whom the prophet prayed to become muslim...whose accepting Islam gave muslims courage to preach openly and was named Farooq ,and Uthman(RA) who married two (not one but two) of holy prophets daughters so was also part of ahle bait...
Then there are sunnis who go after the ahle bait, Ali(RA)the first muslim male, who married the holy prophets daughter, Husnain(RA) the beloved grand sons of the holy prophet, who try to show karbala never occured, who shower praise for wicked Yazid....
no my brothers in faith no, we must not fall in the trap set by shaitan....we love all sahaba and ahle-bait are the most loved ppl.
let us denounce those who try to create rift in islam...may allah give hidaya to all muslims (amen)

11

Divide and Rule,

I have read a huge number of posts talking about MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD and UMAH.

It seems all the proponents of the so called MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD and UMAH should read this thread for the reality of islamic factions fighting amongst themselves.

All the best to both sunni and shia muslims ...

12

a11shah,

Religion has taught us enough to hate but ,not enough to love one another. Views as u have till now, u may change thats the essence that human differ from other species, are typical of what a person develops when he/she is raised in staunch shia family or environment. The same is true for a person raised in a sunni family. These type of persons take religion from a very acute angle and r not willing or respect others views. I dont like views of Maulana Jhangavi but those are very similar to yours in venom.
About Khilafat my views are that this worldly thing had no significance for Hazrat Ali. He was not a coward to build hatred in heart like a munafiq. Islam is truth and if something was against Islam I am sure he would had stood up against it. I think people after 300 years created those fabricated stories for their political gain. Can u answer why Ali named his 2 sons Abu Bakr And Usman and shia people dont do it. Some rational shias have started naming these and thats a positive step.
The most important thing for me in Islam is equality. I dont believe in being even prophets family can help u in front of God. Its your deeds. Thats why Last Prophet had no son so that there may not be a legacy since Muhammad legacy is its umma not his family. Am I at disadvantage that I am not previledged. That would shake my whole faith.You are discrediting the great deeds that Hazrat Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain by implying some special hand of God upon them.They earned hard their worth they didnt received it from anybody. Even Prophet Muhammad used to pray all night.
You said something about a minority being the right sect then whats your worry ,U dont want to become majority then ironically u wont be in the true sect!!
You r neglecting the great services by Sahabs and putting few instances and trying to prove that these point to their lack of faith. Abu Bakr, Usman, Umar, Ali, Fatima...were human beings and humans make mistakes in wordly affairs. Your example of some piece of land is laughable as Hazrat Fatima and Abu Bakr might have some wordly problems but according to u whoever have a slightest problem with those people is munafiq or inferior.
Did u ever drop a single for Hazrat Usman when he gave his life while Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Imam Hussain were protecting his life. Why did they do it. Do u have more knowledge that they had.
Greatest problems of muslims today is that they r trying to prove that they r better muslims than other. At least follow Hazrat Ali and dont go for writers who write venom. You may be wrong! Only God has knowledge of what in hearts dont try to take his work. May God bless us all in making this world that is less of hatred. Dont believe in a narrow circle.

13

umm strong man I got one thing to ask U...Ure like the shia's should accept what Imam Ali(RA) did. well then what about Imam Umer(RA), NOT accepting what the Prophet(pbuh) had said, going against him, what about that?! This is a part of our history, U can read it in our sahih's, our great sunni scholar's have noted it, then Y can U not accept it?!
Imam Umer like I've mentioned in my previous post, said that the Prophet was under the stress of his illness when he asked for a pen to write who was to be his successor.
The following I have taken from the great sunni scholar's books:
the Prophet(pbuh) said,
"Loving Ali is believing, and hating him is hypocrisy" sahih muslim vol 1 p61

"whoever accepted me as his master, then he should also accept Ali as his master. O allah be friendly with his friends, and be enemy to his enemy." sahih muslim vol 2 p362

"Fatimah is part of me, he who angers her angers me" sahih bukhari vol 2 p206

"Fatimah asid to Abu Bakr and Umar" I ask you in the name of Allah-the MOst High-did you not hear the Messenger of allah(saw) saying, "the satisfaction of Fatimah is my satisfaction, and the anger of Fatimah is my anger, he who loves my daughter fatimah loves me, and he who satisfies fatimah satisfies me, and he who angers fatimah angers me?" They said, "Yes, we heard it from the Messenger of Allah(saw)." Then she said, "Therefore, I testify before Allah and the angels that you have angered me and did not please me, and if I meet the Prophet I will complain to him abuot you."
al Imamah Was Siyasah, Ibn Qutaybah, vol 1 p20
Now I would like to direct my attention to aysha(ra). She started the civil war against Imam Ali(RA). When she was told that Imam Uthman(RA) was killed, she was delighted, but when she learnt that people had voted for Ali to succed him she became very angry and said, "I wish the sky would collapse on the earth before Ibn Abi Tlib succeds to the caliphate." then she said, "Take me back."
Al Tabari, Ibn al Athir and other historians who wrote about the events in the year 36 ah

Furthermore, when aysha(RA) went to basra, Imam Ali(RA) sent Ammar ibn Yasir and al-Hasan ibn Ali to al-Kufah. On their arrival, they went to the mosque and adressed the congregation, and we heard ammar saying, "aysha had gone to basrah...and by allah she is the wife of your Prophet in this life and life hereafter, but Allah, the Most High, is testing you to know whom you obey: Him or her."
Sahih Bukhari, vol 4 p161.
There is a lot more, but plz don't say that all of them were great, it's been written in our sahih's that they were not, then how can U say they are?!
wasalam

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

14

::: a11shah Sir welcome to gupshup’s religious forum.

It will be very courteous on your part, if you first introduce yourself and observe the people over here, before you jump in with fatwas.

Your post is full of hatred and lacks any single debatable topic. I want to reply to it line by line, unfortunately the task will be futile and carry no end, but definitely it will escort you to your home.

Since you are not participating, except enforcing your beliefs, it doesn’t worth a penny to respond.

::: Ahl_e_Sunnah, I have a simple question.

***Have you EVER read those above mentioned traditions of the Holy Prophet(saw) by YOURSELF, or you just copied it from some hate literature or web sites?. ***

Please reply sincerely.

I am linking the Hadith database below, please help me to find those particular ahadiths.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

thankyou.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited August 05, 2000).]

15

I don't understand y people would rather point a finger at someone who's trying to help and who himself is searching for the truth, I mean the only reason that I'm even posting things in this forum is so that I can learn something and so that U can to, and yet U have the audacity of asking if I've read what I'm writting. Did U not see after each quote I gave U where I got it from, I even gave U the vol number and the page number so how can U say if I've read what I'm writting, of course I have, that's Y I'm posting it. This is what I don't understand, I gave U solid proof, like U could not rebuke that, i gave it to U from my books, the sunni sahih's, so U go point URe finger at me?! Y R U people like that, c'mon man, I'm not out to start up with nobody, and that book that I mentioned "Then I was guided" has proof from sunni sahih's.
that's all I'm gonna say man...laterz

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

16

Sir I couldnt find those references, thats why asked..

please assist me, I will appreciate that.

PS: I am asking in particular to your quote below.

[quote]

*Ahl-e-Sunnah wrote: *"Imam Umer like I've mentioned in my previous post, said that the Prophet was under the stress of his illness when he asked for a pen to write who was to be his successor. **

[/quote]

Please narrate the whole senario.

thankyou

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited August 05, 2000).]

17

zalim bhai the huzrat omar (as) story could be found in sahih bukhari (the original one) and i have had a look myself
I asked my dad who knows quite a lot abt islam and history but he couldnt satisfy me wit answer. I asked local mosque imam and he said this was done in favour of islam!!!

I have my doubts now over huzrat omar's personality!!!u ask yr imam and let me know what he thinks..

18

Please dudes, don’t refer me to Imams or Ulemas, If you have answer, show it, or just accept that you know nothing except what has been told to you by your elders.

I talk with logics and proofs, if you can't provide then please don’t defend your false attitude.

A person is known by his character. Holy Prophet(saw) when announced that He was appointed by Allah as His messenger, …. people didn’t accepted him for the sake of His claim, He was accepted by His past spotless life, for which He was known as Sadiq and Amin.

This is what I want to emphasize, before you dare to put a stain on Caliph’s personality, you should first take a moment to look at their pious characters, atleast. Has anyone ever spotted any misbehavior or act of disobedience in them?

Anyways, I am waiting for the reference.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited August 06, 2000).]

19

Zalim;

It seems like u r having a hard time accepting the truth. The brothers on the board are giving you clear references regarding the demeaning behaviour of characters like Aisha, Abu Baker, and Umar , and yet you refuse to even analyze the claims that are lying IN YOUR OWN SAHIH BOOKS.

Umar calling the prophet delirious on his death bed - IS THIS HIS HIGH MORAL CHARACTER ?

Umar doubting the prophethood of our holy messenger during the treaty of Hudaybah - IS THIS YOUR GREAT SAHABAH

Umar running away from several battles out of fear of life - especially from the battle of Khandaq, crying out that the prophet had been killed. All the while, the holy ahl-bait, led by Imam Ali (as), were defending the holy prophet (pbuh) single-handedly against the kufars - WHERE WAS YOUR GREAT UMAR NOW ? It was in this battle that the holy prophet (pbuh) lost his tooth. WHERE WERE YOUR GREAT SAHABAHS THEN ?

Aisha swearing at the prophet. Aisha insulting your holy prophet's wives. Aisha leading battles against the husband of the holy lady of light, Fatima Zahra. AND YOU CALL THIS WOMAN THE PROPHET'S FAVORITE WIFE ? And what of the great lady Khatijah ? She is second to Aisha ? Who taught you this - your wahabi molvi or your parents who themselves have been drilled with such trash.

Go look at my article on Imamate. Do you even know what an Imam is as opposed to a mere Califah ? Imam Ali had always opposed the caliphate of Abu baker, who handed it down to Umar (WHERE WAS YOUR DEMOCRATIC ELECTION THEN ?), who passed the rope onto Usman ? He only acknowledged the caliphate since the majority of the people were into Abu baker's camp and had isolated the holy imam. In order to continue to disseminate islamic knowledge and continue to build the islamic foundation, he agreed to work with Abu Baker so that he could remain in touch with the people.

This is the greatness of Imam Ali (as). Being the great warrior and Allah's lion, he could have wiped out Abu Baker and taken over the leadership. But he knew that this would weaken the Islamic state and strengthen the enemies. He did not need or want any worldly power. He was Allah's holy Imam, on earth to spread Islam. But what your sahabahs did were and still is against the holy prophet's command.

See what the holy prophet has said regarding the sinlessness of the holy ahl-bait and their position in the sight of Allah. Then compare to what deeds your sabahas had ever done.

Look at the sons of Imam Ali (as) and their deeds to save Islam from tyrants like Muwayah and Yazid. Look at their piety, knowledge, forebearance and compare it to your sahabahs and their off-springs and see the difference between Allah's holy creations and ordinary people who did wanted nothing but mere worldly powers.

Your 4 so called imams like Shafi, Hanafi, Malaki, and Hanbali were students of Imam Bakir and Imam Jafer Sadiq - the 5th and 6th holy imams (Allah's blessings be on them). They were students of our holy imams and you sit there preaching to Shias that we are wrong. If anyone should learn about audacity, it should be from the Ahl Sunnat. You all walk on the weakest foundations yet talk like you are all knowing.

I have mentioned many points and so has brother Ahl Sunnat and Pathan Bhai but none of you have come thus far to refute any one such claim.

You asking about references shows that most of you have not even read your own Sahihs. So stop calling Shias kafirs and work towards knowing the truth.

And the holy prophet of Allah said:

"And I am the city of knowledge, and Ali is the gate. Whosoever wants to enter the city must pass through the gate"

"I am from Fatima, and she is from me. Who angers her, angers me. Who angers me, angers Allah"

Well Umar threw the door down at Fatima when he went up to the house of Imam Ali (as) to force him to agree to Abu Baker being the caliph. This event caused Fatima's (as) mis-carriage leading to the death of her un-born son. DID YOU KNOW THAT BEFORE GOING ON ABOUT YOUR SAHABAHS' GREATNESS ? Learn the facts before you talk.

Can you find in the Qur'an anywhere where it says that believing in the sahabahs is an article of faith ? Even the Qur'an states that amongst the campanions are those that do not believe. They are munafiq. HAVE YOU READ THE QUR'AN ?

Your sunni definition of sahabah is anyone who was present at the time of the prophet. CAN YOU PROVE TO ME THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON AT THE TIME OF THE HOLY PROPHET WAS NOT A MUNAFIQ ? You know that you can't then why do you insist on saying that all the sahabahs were good ?

Shias love the prophet's sahabahs. People like Ammar bin yasser, Salman farsi, Abuzer Gafari, and Miqdad. These loyal servants of the prophet are the ones who fought to establish Islam and all knew of Imam Ali's holy status. That is why you find the in Imam Ali's army fighting the likes of Aisha, who had the support of tyrannts like Muwayah. How clear should things be before you start seeing the truth.

One person said that if Allah and the prophet had different views of the sahabahs, it was OK and that for us we should love and respect all of them.

I cannot believe that you all would say such things. Aren't we to follow, love, and hate everything that the prophet of Allah followed, loved, and hated ? You have the audacity to tell us that we should have views that are different from what the Almighty and his holy messenger had !

May Allah (swt) save us from such blasphemy.

I have proven many faults of your so-called sahabahs. Now look at the holy personalities of the holy ahl-bait and see for yourselves the sinless lives that they led as opposed to your sahabahs.

Again, I do not enjoy nor intend to bash other people's opinions. I do however, take objections to people attributing kufaric characterics to Shias, who are the true followers of the sunnat of the holy prophet (swt). We take our examples and teachings from our holy imams which were taught by the holy prophet (pbuh), who received his holy relevations from Gibrael, who received the message from Allah (swt).

Peace on to u all.

Wa salam

20

Alright zalim bhai...this is the incident which will show U the character of Imam Umer(RA).
The Companions were meeting in the Messenger's house, 3 days before he died. He ordered them to bring him a bone and an ink pot so that he could write a statement for them which would prevent them from straying from the right path, but the Companions differed amound themselves, and some of them disobeyed the Prophet and accused him talking nonsense. The Messenger of Allah became very angre and ordered them out of his house without issuing any statement.
This is the story in some detail:

Ibn Abbas said: Thursday, and what a Thursday that was! The Messenger's pain became very severe, and he said, "Come here, I will write you a document which will prevent you from straying from the right path." But Umar said that the Prophet was under the spell of the pain, and that they had the Quran which was sufficient being the Book of Allah. Ahl al-Bayt then differed and quarrelled amoungst themselves, some of them agreeing with what the Prophet said, while others supported Umar's view. When the debate became heated and the noise became louder, the Messenger of Allah said to them, "Leave me alone." The people who had started this rift and were successful in their plan to stop the Prophet(saw) from writing down who would succeed him.

Now I would like to take a quote from The Holy Quran
"O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak loud to him as you speak loud to one another, lest your deeds become null while you do not perceive
Holy Quran(49:2)

and that data base that you asked me to look into well that's huge, and it has not titles, it's all numbers, it's easier with a title. I hope this is sufficient, as U can see the quote that I have given can be found in:
sahih Bukhari, Chapter: About the saying of the sick, vol 2
sahih Muslim, End of the book of al Wasiyyah, vol 5 p75

I hope this is proof enough, and plz again I ask U to read the book by a sunni scholar who converted to shia because of his study, which I may add lasted 3 years. This will help u, plz read it with a clear mind, without any bias
May god guide those who look for the path.

allah hu akbar

wasalam

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous