I was replying to Nancy’s post but then I thought this might deserve a thread of its own.
I disagree, when one “Plays” a test inning they are playing according to the demand and nature of test cricket and they are “in control” of their inning.
Where as YK on ODI’s does not ‘play’ a test inning, he is just in-competent (strong word but I believe in it) at ODI level. He cant perform at top of the order against most of the testing conditions (good bowling or tough pitch or match conditions or stronger teams), he can give an odd good inning but mostly he needed either weaker opposition, easy wicket, non pressure situation to score between 50 - 70 runs in ODI and will consistently fold against stronger teams throughout his career at top order and specially for the most part of last around 4 years.
His reputation of a player who has god given talent of picking the gaps, rotating the strikes (and thus he should be a star in batting line up) was (in my opinion very wrongly) associated with him in first 4 years of his career where he used to bat at 5 or 6 and when he came on there would be around 4-5 people in the circle and he would be able to get the ball in out field and scores 1’s and doubles, so according to cricket pundits in Pak..this was good enough to label him as guy who is good at picking singles etc etc, but as soon as he moved to 3, and the push to off side that used to go between Cover and long off and yield him one or two or the flick that went through un-patrolled midwicket in 35th over and got him 2 runs or a dab at point (which didnt exist in 40th over) and YK got a single, were constantly going straight to fielders and YK (who is un-capable of doing anything else) kept failing to do what he was labelled as expert (i.e, a player who can rotate strike).
He kept on getting away with his short comings by scoring against weaker oppositions + easy batting or game conditions + average fielding sides but for majority of time did not impress against better sides or tough batting conditions or good fielding sides. Luckily for him he belongs to Pakistan where neither the management nor the press or cricket fans are capable of making the above observation (or if they do they are not brave enough to point that out in media or to higher management ) so he played over 230+ games and with three more ODI’s in BD, he is going to get one more fifty and will get selected for next ODI series.
It took HK to score his 1st ODI century I believe, I have not supported YK for ODIs, but ever since Yousuf was being mistreated and Misbah was out I think he was the only stabilizer in the inning.
He is pretty good in ODIs as well once he gets past first 10-15 runs.
I disagree even when gets 10 15 runs he still needs a weaker team or easy pitch or easy mom pressure situation to convert those 15 runs into something substantial
It took HK to score his 1st ODI century I believe, I have not supported YK for ODIs, but ever since Yousuf was being mistreated and Misbah was out I think **he was the only stabilizer **in the inning.
Why are you so sure that a senior player is only option to stablize the inning?
Its because of this **fear cultures **that the seniors have developed over last few years, they have successfully made their fans believe that chances of losing is bigger when they are NOT around ...which is not 100% accurate.
But the result is that, that fear trickles down into the system so bad that we are not letting juniors (who play without any fear of defeat) get a chance to play in pressure cooker situations (on frequent basis) to get experience and improve as cricketers, because those seniors (mostly) fold under pressure situations and come out and say "See if we can fold under pressure with all or our experience in international cricket then how bad it would have been with juniors, so that why keep playing us and not them".
Above is not super complicated to understand and thats what Aussies/SA/Eng cricket teams/management and their fans have successfully understood and not Pakistani team/management and fans.
I really like YK. He is a great player. But IMO his presence in ODI squad is hampering the progress of the likes of Asad Shafiq.
Situation is kinda similar to Ponting's in aussie' test squad. He will play a useful innings every now and then but his presence will stop players like Khwaja from progressing.
Why are you so sure that a senior player is only option to stablize the inning?
Its because of this **fear cultures **that the seniors have developed over last few years, they have successfully made their fans believe that chances of losing is bigger when they are NOT around ...which is not 100% accurate.
But the result is that, that fear trickles down into the system so bad that we are not letting juniors (who play without any fear of defeat) get a chance to play in pressure cooker situations (on frequent basis) to get experience and improve as cricketers, because those seniors (mostly) fold under pressure situations and come out and say "See if we can fold under pressure with all or our experience in international cricket then how bad it would have been with juniors, so that why keep playing us and not them".
Above is not super complicated to understand and thats what Aussies/SA/Eng cricket teams/management and their fans have successfully understood and not Pakistani team/management and fans.
I am not referring to his "seniority" as factor for 'stabilizing' as I saw the era of 1990s when most fighting took place for captaincy followed by 2000s. I am referring to his ability to stick to the wicket and not throw it away like some of our 'talented' batsmen do. After Inzamam we had to rely on Yousuf and Younis to form the batting backbone but when mistreatment of Yousuf began (or lets say his in-n-out) and Misbah was out of favors then the other choice was to keep Younis as our management didn't nurture many young 'middle-order' batsmen.
I am not referring to his "seniority" as factor for 'stabilizing' as I saw the era of 1990s when most fighting took place for captaincy followed by 2000s. I am referring to his ability to stick to the wicket and not throw it away like some of our 'talented' batsmen do. After Inzamam we had to rely on Yousuf and Younis to form the batting backbone but when mistreatment of Yousuf began (or lets say his in-n-out) and Misbah was out of favors then the other choice was to keep Younis as our management didn't nurture many young 'middle-order' batsmen.
Its not the topic but where do you think the MoYo was mistreated?
^ I believe it has something to do with Shoaib Malik and ICL :)
Shoaib Malik was Appointed captain of Pak and Moyo runs to ICL for nothing other than money, I would love to hear that how that was mistreatment to Moyo. And I believe that you can come up with more than a line or two to explain this to me. :)
His reputation of a player who has god given talent of picking the gaps, rotating the strikes (and thus he should be a star in batting line up) was (in my opinion very wrongly) associated with him in first 4 years of his career where he used to bat at 5 or 6 and when he came on there would be around 4-5 people in the circle and he would be able to get the ball in out field and scores 1's and doubles, so according to cricket pundits in Pak..this was good enough to label him as guy who is good at picking singles etc etc, but as soon as he moved to 3, and the push to off side that used to go between Cover and long off and yield him one or two or the flick that went through un-patrolled midwicket in 35th over and got him 2 runs or a dab at point (which didnt exist in 40th over) and YK got a single, were constantly going straight to fielders and YK (who is un-capable of doing anything else) kept failing to do what he was labelled as expert (i.e, a player who can rotate strike).
He kept on getting away with his short comings by scoring against weaker oppositions + easy batting or game conditions + average fielding sides but for majority of time did not impress against better sides or tough batting conditions or good fielding sides. Luckily for him he belongs to Pakistan where neither the management nor the press or cricket fans are capable of making the above observation (or if they do they are not brave enough to point that out in media or to higher management ) so he played over 230+ games and with three more ODI's in BD, he is going to get one more fifty and will get selected for next ODI series.
Last ODI, YK just got dropped off a no ball...Ball goes for 4, next ball FH, YK misses the 120 KMPH Free Hit and cant even touch it.....Oh, BTW, there has already been plenty of underlined stuff from the quoted post above.
Shoaib Malik was Appointed captain of Pak and Moyo runs to ICL for nothing other than money, I would love to hear that how that was mistreatment to Moyo. And I believe that you can come up with more than a line or two to explain this to me. :)
Malik dropped Yousuf as soon as he took reigns, that gave clear signs of trouble to Yousuf who then ran to ICL but didn't actually play there. Thats when troubles began for him. Though PCB's pressure brought him back for selection but he didn't get selected regularly if I can recall correctly then he ran back to ICL and actually started playing. I will add as I recall more.
You are comparing bad with worst. They both don't command their slot in ODI lineup today. I'd give Asad Shafiq and Shahzyeb long run in place of YK and SM.
You are comparing bad with worst. They both don't command their slot in ODI lineup today. I'd give Asad Shafiq and Shahzyeb long run in place of YK and SM.
What about Misbah then? He even doesnt command a place in ODI Squad?Its just he is the captain thats why he is there
YK is doing fine. He is needed, and the question is not about him, rather about a mindset and approach to team building to produce higher results.
Forcing seniors out and inducing too many*"choozay"* will be detrimental to the performance of the team. Any team building has to be done in a balance and no right minded management/board would or should try to make a new team with only juniors. That is where Mr. Butt failed, where he sidelined all seniors and tried to get new pups to kiss his feet and pretend to form a team. That is why Mr. Butt is considered a failure as well. Even he finally realized and dragged Misbah out of his abyss.
So coming back to the issue of YK and Misbah, please tell us that is you remove them, then who would you keep in the side as seniors? Just wonder how the side would perform only with juniors.
This is a weak debate if it is even one at all.
just because the guy doesn’t play with strike rate of your liking he doesn’t command a place in ODI?