Ya Ali madad

[vroom]

Re: Ya Ali madad

salam

@psyah

This is also where I must say I cannot agree in principle with saying “Ya Ali madad” … It is not even something that we ask from RasoolAllah (SAW) … And it comes back to the definition of shirk …

Psyah, I never expected such a mistake from you. It comes back to definition of shirk but if it was asking from RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam it would be better? No, No That’s not how tawheed and shirk work

Du’a and 'ibadah are both to be directed to Allah (SWT) … The Key Chapter - the Opener - The Fatihah … Gives us clues to what is the criteria of shirk …

what are the clues to the criteria of shirk you find in Al-Fatiha?

A du’a is asking for help and ibadah is making an offering … It hence confines us to understand that … There are some things that are Right of Allah (SWT) alone and we ask them from Him and there are some things we can offer and they too are expressly the right of Allah (SWT) …

A dua should contain All elements of Worship but a call to other then Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala does not contain the elements of worship, so it remains a call and not ibadah (worship)

so like we allow kissing of hands and feet, and do not say it is prostration

Also the Sajda of Tazeem is a great example that not everything that is similar to an act of ibadah is necessarily an act of Shirk or Ibadah. They are both Sajda and Sajda, but only one qualifies as Ibadah. The first thing Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala did was to clarify this. SubhanAllah

If the argument of not being good enough to ask directly was valid … Then the argument of not being good enough to worship directly would be too … And that is what the mushrik Makkans were already doing … Before the advent of Islam.

I think the only comment to suggest such a thing (impossibility of asking directly) was aimed at answering a previous post in a certain way. Nobody has that it is not recommended to go straight to Allah Most Merciful

However, since I am also a believer of the idea of great and noble people of Allah (SWT) which are prophets and companions of prophets and martyrs to be alive … Then asking from them certain things is okay … So it all falls on the interpretation of that word madad …

If it was shirk then it wouldn’t be ‘ok’ at all

The word ‘madad’ is irrelevant or almost irrelevant because the same request can be made without using the word Madad. so it would be ‘Ya Ali’ meaning Ya Ali [Madad]

If we ask them for what is the express right of Allah (SWT) like forgiveness of sins then that is haram and shirk … Or like to make our destiny good, or for wealth, or health, and so on … All shirk … If we ask them to smile on us on the Day of Judgment, or if we say Salam to them, or if we ask RasoolAllah (SAW) to provide waseelah to us … Then that is specifically impossible to be asked from Allah (SWT) … and not within the rights outlined by shirk …

Rights outlined by shirk are ‘non given’ attributes. Anything that is (believed to be) given to the person to distribute is not shirk. so possibly a false belief but not shirk as long as its a ‘given’ quality and as long as it is not believed to be equal as Allah All Mighty Ability or Attribute. Some words can be used for Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala and Creation but it does not count as shirk (as long as background belief is Ok). Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has shown us this in the Quran. The lesson here is that even that is not shirk, but a great virtue given by Allah Most Merciful

I have huge problems with replacing a Salam which is the right of Allah (SWT) - to be granted peace and that being replaced by the name of another in the same setting … i.e. As a greeting!

If this statement means something else … No one so far has had the courage to explain it … It is because for them it IS an alternative to Salam … :nono: … In the absence of not having a clear understanding of what is meant by the term madad here … I would give the benefit of the doubt and say that this phrase as a greeting is most definitely a reprehensible bidd’a.

As a greeting it is a (possible) Bidah, (possibly) mocking and possibly shirk but nobody here has given the isamaili pov

Some people refrain from asking anything from the holy men of Allah (SWT) … This is also a safe position because they have saved themselves of shirk and bidd’a … If we are really going to step close to the boundary we NEED to know very well what defines that boundary or else we could be pushed out of it …

If they hold ‘Ya Ali Madad’ or similar calls to be shirk in all circumstances then they are a reprehensible Bidah themselves, and if they propagate their Bidah then they are a people who are subverting Islam to their confusion.
Their groups also propagate the confusion in the first place!

It is not necessary to call ‘ya Ali Madad’ or similar but at the same time it is not shirk and it is permissible (not mustahab as far as i know). Everyone must respect this as a valid Islamic position