y ppl r not ready to come back

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
61

FRAUDIA BHAI
im not getting personal but the ppl living here r still doin some thing they r not loosing hope they r still more optimistic n courageous thn u they r still attached to where there identity belong they r still hoping that every thing will b fine n they r trying to their level best there may b some ppl rather there r who r sucking the blood f the nation but me n most f us r hopeful tht we will make a way out
u no wat u ppl had left ur country when it needs u the most it needs u bring her out f the current situation
iqbal says

PAIWASTA REH SHAJAR SAU UMIIDAI BAHAR RAKH

HOPE FR THE BEST

62

[quote]
Originally posted by ATTITUDE:
**FRAUDIA BHAI
im not getting personal but the ppl living here r still doin some thing they r not loosing hope they r still more optimistic n courageous thn u they r still attached to where there identity belong they r still hoping that every thing will b fine n they r trying to their level best there may b some ppl rather there r who r sucking the blood f the nation but me n most f us r hopeful tht we will make a way out
u no wat u ppl had left ur country when it needs u the most it needs u bring her out f the current situation
iqbal says

PAIWASTA REH SHAJAR SAU UMIIDAI BAHAR RAKH

HOPE FR THE BEST**
[/quote]

Attitude

I understand what you are saying, but what you fail to see are 2 facts. #1 most people on gupshup are people who left their countries at ayoung age or were born abroad..so they did not leave their country when it needed them.

People who are living there are not losing hope..does it apply to everyone? or does it apply to those who are doing everything possible to get out of the country?

You dont want us to generalize about Pakistanis living in Pakistan but you want to generalize Pakistanis living abroad.

Who is more valuable to the country, another educated unemployed young engineer or a gainfully employed engineer who has gone abroad to make a better living and is helping improve the condition of his entire family and thus creating a domino effect.

People help society and the nation in various ways, the simplest and most realistic way is to make sure you are the best you can be, and to ensure that people around you get educated etc. How many people do we know who went abroad and gave up the comfort of family and friends to make a honmest living that helped them put their siblings or children through schools and make then more productive citizens.

On another level have you rad anything about the impact of foriegn exchange for Pakisdtan due to Pakistanis working abroad?

Being jazbati and all is easy, looking at anything like this from a practical perspective is tougher.

63

yar im getting your point too but wat i got from all that discussion is tht ppl had started thinking f pakistan as country they will never want to visit coz law n order there is not good bla bla bla
i want to make a point tht guys for god sake its ur own country dont start to tell ur next generations tht they r americans or eourpians tell them tht they r pakis n one day they will go back to their own country
n yar tell u one more thing jitni mehnaat aap udhar kartai itni idhar kar di to ull see tht ur country will pay u back

64

[quote]
Originally posted by ATTITUDE:
yar im getting your point too but wat i got from all that discussion is tht ppl had started thinking f pakistan as country they will never want to visit coz law n order there is not good bla bla bla
i want to make a point tht guys for god sake its ur own country dont start to tell ur next generations tht they r americans or eourpians tell them tht they r pakis n one day they will go back to their own country
n yar tell u one more thing jitni mehnaat aap udhar kartai itni idhar kar di to ull see tht ur country will pay u back
[/quote]

Attitude, My dad did tried and he failed, So please tell me if we go back and our pakistani people dont let us work but try to change us to follow their way of working, then what shall we do? should we become another ordinary citizens or start a fight with pakistani's??

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Originally posted by Fraudia:
"And what about people who did not leave the country themselves but left with their parents at a young age or were born abroad."

See man u r again giving ur own example i have nothing against people who were born abroad its not their fault.

Originally posted by Fraudia:
"You did not but someone sure said that overseas pakistanis who dont come back have bo right on the country..go back and read all the posts"

I sure did say that but its again due to the justification factor they leave the country prefering their own interest over the interest of the country (there are rare examples where its different but mostly this is how it is) i can't justify and this is my opinion u can sure disagree with that.

To err is human to keep on doing so is essentially me

66

I think there's only so much overseas Pakistanis can do to help. They have their own priorities and generally they are struggling to establish themselves as a community where they live as can be seen with the disturbances in the north of England.

At the end of the day, it's the people who live in Pakistan who have to force changes as they are the ones who will continue to suffer if they don't.

Most expatriates do contribute a lot but it often ends up creating a lazy public who think that they will get everything given to them so they don't need to work.

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han ji bilkul ap he ache hai baki dunya to sare ke sare..nakami hai … right

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my brother shah jahan… if u give charity or do any noble deed keep it to yourself…puri dunya me dindhora kio peete ho.. hmmm who is jumping to conclusion… think again.. grades

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effort

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make up your mind brother

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by fantastic1:
See man u r again giving ur own example i have nothing against people who were born abroad its not their fault.

No chanda, I am talking about people who were born abroad or moved abroad at a young age, there are tons of them around, just ask around on gupshup. Also realize there are other people posting too so my every post is not in response to your post so do read other posts and get a sense of the flow of the thread here.

I sure did say that but its again due to the justification factor they leave the country prefering their own interest over the interest of the country (there are rare examples where its different but mostly this is how it is) i can't justify and this is my opinion u can sure disagree with that.

And I stand by my statement that a well established and gainfully employed educated person who is abroad and is helping his country with foriegn exchange as well as helping his family get educated and all is more helpful than an educated person who gets no opportunities and can not be a financial resource to his country or to his family.

Why is it that personal interest and national interest have to be mutually exclusive. You dont have to sacrifice your goals for the country, you can use your well being, prodcutivity and prosperity as a resource for the country.

Does Pakistan have a problem with too little population? that when people leave or do not return it can not fill jobs or industry? I doubt it, we have huge population back in Pakistan, capable educated people..lets see an indication from them, lets see something gain momentum.

What issues we are talking about are not helping the country.. they are helping fix the society..and the society is of the people who live there. Until and unless the society wants to change no one can make it aside from sheer force. How can you help someone who does not want to change or help themselves.

69

k guys here i make another point u ppl say tht wat bout those who were born abroad or who moved abroad at very small age isnt it so k i dont blame those coz i think tht they can not adjust here
bit have u ever thaught tht ur children will also give the same reason tht they were born here
k idon question ur contribution in sending the foriegn exchange but i will question tht when the country needs men like u in front for its economic revival when country needs ur professional skills to fight fr existance u were happy by ur contribution in shape f dollars do u think tht is the limit u can do fr ur country or there is some space fr doing a bit more
DO THINK N TELL US

70

attitude

there are plenty of unemployed and educated people in pakistan. what would another batch of educated and unemployed people do to help the country.

I would also like to know what does Pakistan need that the people living there can not give it? are they not willing, are they not able, are they not concerned?

I mean we dont lack manpower..so why are the eyes looking outwards, why cant we utilize our existing human resources.

71

i don't need to read everything when u quote me and reply it means your reply is in response to my message i already said i have no prob with ppl who were born abroad secondly how many people are helping their country from abroad? Ther are few defenetly but i know of people who don't even send foreign currencies through proper channals.
There are good people abroad as well but than how many as is the case with people inside. Next time u reply to someone else's message in the thread please don't quote me. And don't call me chanda again understood i hate the word.

To err is human to keep on doing so is essentially me

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And don't call me chanda again understood i hate the word.

You're not bald... are you?

74

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To err is human to keep on doing so is essentially me

75

dont get personal guys

76

we cant make out from all this behas all of us have reasons to stick to their beleifs n no body can change it
see ya
attitude

77

Let see what type of people dont go back to Pakistan.

1) Who leave Pakistan as student.

2) Who leave Pakistan to apply Political Assylum outside in a well developed country.

3) Who leave Migrate out of Pakistan.

Now Catagory No.1

The people who leave Pakistan to study out usually are those who or their predecessors have got enough money to waste of foreign education - Or the people who get the Pakistani Government Grant. The people who get the grant usually go back because they have legal duty to fulfil otherwise their family in Pakistan will pay the price.

Those student who come from families like Twanay, Doltanay, Chadday etc etc (you know what I am talking about) go back because they know that one day they have to be blood sucking leeches as they fathers & grand fathers. Rest think several times before they can make up their mind to return back. The try to get some experience after education (if the are lucky enough to finish it) and they also think that after three/four years of study they spent 35-40K GBP they have a full right to get some of it back. Most of them think that they will work in Europe or USA for couple of years save some money get some experience and will go back. By the time those couple of years are over they are unable to leave because they think that they have the job they are so involved in the local society that it seems impossible to have a restart in Pakistan and they stick to where they started their career.

Catagory No.2

These type of people are mostly lower middle class people (most of them with least education or basic education), usually over clever & they plan to move out. The make fradulent bank-statement or other evidences to get the visa. I have seen that these type of people usually use all false docuements (PK ID card, passport even false name). They apply asylum after arriving in the country (UK is the best destination for these type of people). They know that they have 3-4 year until they will be kicked out. In that 3-4 years they work like donkey, do all types of frauds with bank rob credit cards etc etc & eventually leave when kicked out. They reach Pakistan will loads of money tell their relatives that they are back on holiday .... get another ID from Pakistan (different name) and get another visa for UK and back again for another asylum. People in Pakistan think that they are settled in UK. These type of people give really really bad name to the Pakistan living in UK and because of these type of people UK/Europe/USA put huge visa restriction on the Pakistanis living in Pakistan. (I got all this information when I myself was working in UK home office), I couldn't believe that people can even think of these frauds. People from India, Sri Lanka, Iran, Afghanistan, Balkan area & turkey - they come in the same boat. These people also making the European governement to close their borders for genuin candidates.

Catagory No.3

These are the people who are not as crook as others living in Pakistan & usually have relatives of extended family in the country they move to. Now a days Canada is the target. They usually get fed up of the corrupt Pakistani system & the only escape for them is to move out of the system rather than fight back & die. Mostly skillful people come under this catagory.

In 1977 a guy who was working in Jeddah went back home to Sailkoat and offered his parents to take for Hajj. His father said, "I am a well to do man you dont have to spend money on us for this and we can pay for all this". He was angry about is and said no way I am your son & I'll pay for everything.

They all went for Hajj and when they went back to Sailkoat after Hajj, the guy started asking his father to pay him for all the expenses. His father agreed on one condition that he will pay him all the expense but not in Sailkoat they have to go to Jeddah for it. So they did. When they arrived Jeddah, the son refused to accept any money and said, sorry I didn't want to ask for money. Then his father told him, Son, its not your fault its the water of Pakistani land, when u drink that you think like a Pakistani.

Its not a joke its a true story, happened with my maternal grand-fathers' neighbours.

If you read the history of Indo Pak you will see that it was always invaded by foreign rulers. The people of this land are never sincere to each other, they always helped foreigners to invade and then helping them to get benefits from them. Even muslim rulers did the same. Muhammad bin Qasim, Emperor Babar (Mughals). Sultan Mehmood Ghaznavi, Tughlaqs etc etc ... they all were foreigners & locals helped them to set their kingships then served them to be prominant in the locals. Later on English were entertained by the locals, Tuwanay (came from Two Ana (do annay in urdu).. English use to give them tip of two ana when they tuwanays' fore-fathers used to server English in restaurants as waiters --- & they became two-anay), Doltanay, Jatoee, Qurmani etc etc.

Then Pakitan came into being. These prominant figures came as "Jahaiz" with Pakistan & started sucking the blood of nation of Pakistan. But nation was calm & that volcano errupted by Mr. Zulifqaar Ali Bhutto when he brought his moto up of "Roti Kapda, aur Makan". The people who are old enough here (ages 35-50) still can differentiate the era before Bhutto & after Bhutto. The last nail was hammered in by the Pakistani who went to work in Middle East in or during 1976. They brought money with them and their families started showing everyone ... they have the dosh. The locals where thinking that the person who couldn't even read his name is now sending thousands of Rupees from Dubai. So most of the people in those days started looking for jobs in Dubai. The people who couldn't go to Dubai started robbing people from Dubai and the un-educated people who didn't want hassel started bribing people.

Before 1976-77 bribe was not common, it was around but people used to be ashmed of taking bribe ... after 1976 to 1979 people clearly started asking for it. Now its like a TAX. Price 2500 + bribe TAX 1000.

Now someone said here that why do u expect people to move Pakistan while pakistani themselves are moving out. Very very valid point. Our family is the one who moved from outside to live in Pakistan and I am the rebel who ran away from Pakistan after living there for nearly four years. My family is still living there though they have the option to move out but my mother said thats the soil brought her on this earth & thats ths soil she will go back in. So I said that not the soil brought me out on this earth and moved out of Pakistan.

My own personal Opinion:

I was not born in Pakistan, (where ever I was born is irrelevant). I went to Pakistan to live there with my family when they decided that we should live in pakistan. I think my parents made this decision because they thought Pakistan is a muslim country & they wont have to do much effor to make us good muslims etc etc (some other reasons). My father didn't move to Pakistan with us .. he was working around the globe but used to visit us regularly. In 1993 ... when I started looking for a job or in other words I should say when I wanted to start my career I was kicked out by nearly all the places I applied. In December 1993 my father died and my own uncle (my fathers elder brother offered me a job as grade 4 junior clerk in WAPDA, for it I had to pay Rs. 50000, because my uncle was a Cheif Exec there). I came home and next thing I did was to search for my passport, & after a week I was sitting in our home in UK, luckily my father didn't sell that house. To cut all the story short, tell me honestly if u have to start your career with paying money, wouldn't u want firt your money back & by the time u will get ur money back ... ur mouth will be full of so ....(I dont say it) you will carry on eating that $$$T and will never stop. That is what happening in Pakitan.

There are several problems ..... as someone here said. Avay ka Aava hee bighda hoa hay ...

We need an-other foreigner to come and invade us again .... to restart the rehablitaton.

Good help Pakistanis.

78

Najim,

I feel like kissing fingers with them you had typed this text. Really yarr you are right, but living outside Pakistan is an emotional pain.

May be one day, I'll return back to Pakistan. I wish!!!!

Nadeem

79

Najim, well written.

My family left pakistan because of insecurity & dakoos.

80

Lets get real people we know that corruption, sifarish and dadgeri will remain in our society until our countrymen decide to rip it from its root (which loo impossible).

My problem is not these, I can tolerate some level of corruption of sifarish and dad geri as bad element of the soceity. BUT my problem is that I cannot live in pakistan because of law and order situation. Until government take tough action to clear out all the elements of soceity who cause problems for ordinary pakistani's I am not going back.

I love my country and the people and I know one day I will go back.

"Away from Eyes......Close to Heart"