y ppl r not ready to come back

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
41

Attitude wake up and smell the cappuccino buddy. What does not go on in Pakistan? yeah its hidden, but then its always harder to control something that is hidden.

If parenting is an issue, there are all sorts of foriegn born desis, and there are all sorts of pakistan born desis..so the pressures may be higher abroad regarding dating, alcohol etc. But then there are pressures in Pakistan to try and take the shortcut for everything, does it mean everyone gets influenced by the pressures?

I dont think so

42

Isn't racism everywheere?

I used to go to a school in Canada in which they usually left me out be it sports or be it academics. I was never a bad student nor fasaadi but still I got the lowest grades in my Class. There was also A sikh guy in my class and the same thing used to happen to him also!!!

I tried out for T-ball but never got it(when I was one of the first to sign up after they said "his singing up form arrived late)!!!

I tried to join various clubs but never got into one!!(i can't suck that much)

My grades were good but for some reason I never got good effort marks!!(This type of things never happend before or after this school)

Fraudia: Don't you think if something is hidden than its harder to find in the first place????

"hidden" stuff also goes on in saudi so does that mean we should never go to makkah or madeina?

An other thing "short cuts" are there in Pak but no so wide spread that its almost commen. your talking about it as if every man in Pak is a drug dealer or takes rishwat or is currupt!!

Me(And I think attitude)are trying to say this "Pak not totally safe but its not a cespit either"

All these allegations are wrong and almost baseless about "wrong Things" going on everywhere and everyplace in pak!!

When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!

43

Originally posted by ATTITUDE:
*...in which we can feel safe in upbringung our children,although i dont have any yet but im sure ill opt for pakistan for their up bringing i wont like my dayghters live in a society where there is no values n no culture where my children will forget relegion n where they will b made fun of only because that they dont go dates etc *

You want your daugther to go to school in a country/city where kidnapers send notices that they will be there to pickup girls? My aunt never dreamed of comeing to America. My uncle was a Chief Accountant for a company in Tanzania for over 10-15 years, came back to Pakistan and started work for Pakistan Steel Mill. School kidnappings started, notices would be received by schools naming children that the kidnappers would come for. In 1983, my uncle and aunt left Pakistan for the sake of keeping kids safe, alive, and with them. My uncle has 7-8 siblings who are married and have children. None of them was educated and, thus, couldn't get decent jobs. My uncle supported his family along with his mother for over 10 years.

It is natural for people to keep their lives above all else. For those who could gather enough money together and move to an area of lesser/least resistance, they did. I would love nothing better then to move back to Pakistan and raise children there but ...... I concur with Sweet Pie with what she said above.

People living there have to get fed up first. My cousin had a software development team in Lahore. He is in consulting business and wanted to get a software house setup in Pakistan to help promote the high-tech skills there....(meaning you don't have to go back to Pakistan to help the country). After Musharraf came, there were numerous raids on businesses during the early times right after Musharraf came. A raid was conducted at this software house. All of the programmers were arrested. They had been running prostitution on the side. As programmers they were being paid over RS. 5,000.00 per month. I guess that wasn't enough for them.

I know of people who are dying to get stuff from Pakistan (see again that you don't have to live there to help the country) but they are cheated and connived. Every single shipment is at risk of being jeoperdize. It is much easier and straight forward to bring the same goods from India. I have lost money, lost business, gave up business due to the Pakistani sifarish system.

There was a time when we were strongly thinking about sending my younger brother to Pakistan to study medicine.

Khan Sahib said it in much simpler terms: ** I don't bother about mosquitoes.
I don't bother about guns or getting killed.
I don't bother about anything else

but

just provide me a just system i.e. a chance to survive without any bribe and safarish. **

and SP clarified it in more simpler terms**
(insaan ko insaan samjha jata hay but, in Pakistan insaan ko insaan nahi oos ki position se jana jata hay.. Aisa koi paki nahi hoga is dunia kay kisi konay main jisay pakistan se mohubbat na ho**

Many others have said the same thing in elaborate terms....

I love my country even though I am an American. There is no Jihad that I would feel compulsion to go back and fight for something. I value my life and don't want to be caught in a cross fire between the Kafirs, aka the sunni/shia terrorists, and their Kafir maulanas. I live more at peace with myself and as much a Muslim as I want to be in America, for me a VERY Muslim country...more so then Saudi Arabia. It's is a pity that the last revelation was sent there. I laugh at the face of the tableeghi jamaats who come to U.S.A. to preach us Islam.....the arrogance of them...! I pity them for not answering my questions and they want me to ........ forget it...it's no use.

44

Sorry fraudia couldn't reply earlier having some probs opening the thread i remember we had this battle once before same arguments same feelings so its better i don't say anything u r right i am wrong overseas Pakistanis are great and we are bloody idiots fine fair enough Man the problem is when i talk i talk about us as a whole when u talk u keep ur own example infront of u i never saiud u did thuis and this and thisby u i meant overseas Pakistanis in general not u

To err is human to keep on doing so is essentially me

45

listen in pakistan there r incidents f kiddnaping n other but wat is the ratio is this ratio more thn the ratio f rape in states or racial killing in uk if it is thn tell me n do think tht wat r u making of u r future generations i bet ur sons or sons f ur sons wiil call pakistan as another god damn asian country

46

Me(And I think attitude)are trying to say this "Pak not totally safe but its not a cespit either"

I wouldn't put it this way either. Pakistan has serious problems which need to be addressed, and addressed immediately. I just want locals Pakistanis to realize that and get out of their comfort zone. If they'e asking for help from expats, then ofcourse expats are here to help. They love Pakistan and its culture more than the Pakistani living there themselves (though they realize it after leaving the country).

All these allegations are wrong and almost baseless about "wrong Things" going on everywhere and everyplace in pak!!

I don;t think anyone here has implied that its everywhere and everyone but rather that its with enough frequency and spread that it makes life-in-general a struggle.

There is no Jihad that I would feel compulsion to go back and fight for something

Jannu, would you please define Jihad. Is it only referred to as "battle" i.e. war or you think it has a broader meaning with a fight against anything unjust and wrong!

I am wrong overseas Pakistanis are great and we are bloody idiots fine fair enough Man

Fantastic, don't be so bitter dude. Everyone has their work cut out for them but the important thing is that people realize that they have work cut out for them and the extent of work each has to do.

Man the problem is when i talk i talk about us as a whole when u talk u keep ur own example infront of u i never saiud u did thuis and this and thisby u i meant overseas Pakistanis in general not u

ALlright, this is a different topic in itself. What overseas Pakistani are doing - or to put it in your terms, not doing - for Pakistan is totally another issue. We can discuss this as well if you'd like open the discussion on it...

47

[quote]
Originally posted by fantastic1:
**Sorry fraudia couldn't reply earlier having some probs opening the thread i remember we had this battle once before same arguments same feelings so its better i don't say anything u r right i am wrong overseas Pakistanis are great and we are bloody idiots fine fair enough Man the problem is when i talk i talk about us as a whole when u talk u keep ur own example infront of u i never saiud u did thuis and this and thisby u i meant overseas Pakistanis in general not u

**
[/quote]

fantastic

I can start giving you examples of other people who have left teh country for the reasons I mentioned. We are not unique in this.

When i talked about cheating, corrutption, at all levels of society, i was talking in general. When I talk about the sectarian violence there, I am still speaking in general terms. Your claims about overseas Pakistanis are generalizations that we are supposed to accept, but when generalizations about challenges in problems inPakistan are mentioned..people start giving their own examples of how it is not the case. It is the case..we all know about torture cells of MQM in places like Landhi and stuff. We all know about corrup police, customs, utilities, educational institutes.. what now

My point is that its always easy to give lectures, its tougher to do something. Do I believe that you have to be in pakistan to help..or do I believe that every Pakistani living in Pakistan is more patriotic and is working day and night to make teh country better? Nope..if that was the case we would not be where we are today.

48

Once again, I think you guys are getting carried away in this discussion. The reasons for people leaving Pakistan, are almost purely economical, and very rarely security/cultural etc. You can not blame anyone for trying to do so. The whole of notion that these people should come back is quite ludicrous, and deffinitely seems to be coming from someone who has no financial pressures.

[This message has been edited by mangelo (edited June 30, 2001).]

49

well i must say fraudia bhai has taken the argument

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

.. well said (took me a while to read the whole post :hehe

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

shah jahan…grades are evaluation of your brain… it has nothing to do with your ethnic back ground

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

…if u r living in USA, Canada or UK… in Pakistan..well bribe gets us everywhere

attitude… fraudia bhai has taken the argument…and u have lost it… instead of blaming us..y not u try to solve some problems… and if u do get the chance and something changes… then let us know…
we did nothing to harm our country…

show me security of family, tell me i wont have to bribe anyone to get things done, tell me there wont be shooting in masjid, tell me no one would rob my house, my locker in bank is safe and alot more that falls here… then duh who wont come back…

attitude… problem was created by those who lived there and who are as ofnow living under it… instead of telling us to come back… how about u going out and give speech to … “awam” and tell them not to accpet this BS from leaders and theives etc…

let me put it in simple words… “jab koi kam karwana hota hai na..to kese ko khene nahe karo… insan advertise is tarha se karee ke log us ke pas aye”

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

samhaj aya

ghalib…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

50

[quote]
Originally posted by ghalib:
**>>>There is no Jihad that I would feel compulsion to go back and fight for something

Jannu, would you please define Jihad. Is it only referred to as "battle" i.e. war or you think it has a broader meaning with a fight against anything unjust and wrong!
**
[/quote]

I meant it in that specific term.

To reiterate my earlier position, if we overseas Pakistanis feel compelled to help the country without having to go back we have a way to do that. I said it earlier and, don't know if that registered with anyone else - I belive in it myself and apply it myself. I believe the only way we can help Pakistan to rid itself of the aforementioned problems is to get pressure applied to the system from the outside. This is the only way I can comprehend how I can help Pakistan. We have to identify to our governments what's wrong in Pakistan and what, as the citizens of the respective countries, we want our governments to do in response to address the issues.

Many will say I am talking about hurting Pakistan.... Ever help someone who's been hurt? They cry their heads off. In some cases, they die. Having lived overseas for over 28 years, I have come to realize that regardless of how much we talk about Pakistan; no one does anything to help the country in practical terms. Many will spend
countless hours discussin the matter but no one can show where's the beaf.

There are many steps we can take which have an impact on the country but that does not mean that we have to uproot our families and move to Pakistan... I want to know how many of you guys in high-tech will be willing to move to Pakistan with it's limited field. This is a very silly statement/question. Though I won't begin to go into details but I know that there are problems of load-shedding, government redtape, etc.

Anyways, lest I make more of a fool of myself I will leave the floor to others.

51

I have come to realize that regardless of how much we talk about Pakistan; no one does anything to help the country in practical terms. Many will spend countless hours discussin the matter but no one can show where's the beaf.

Hehehhe... yupp. There's no shortage of these kinds. You and I know enough people like that to make such a general statement. Bottom line, like you said, is that actions need to be taken and lip service needs to be contained.

Though I won't begin to go into details but I know that there are problems of load-shedding, government redtape, etc.

Well, we have load shedding in amreeeeka as well. Kinda makes you feel like you;re back home...

52

Moved to Society & Culture Forum.

53

Fraudia u have once again misinterpreted what i tried to say may be my fault
I fully except that we the ppl in Pakistan are not good if we had been Pakistan would not have been in this state. I don't deny the corruption, social evils, terrorism have faced all this myself but tell me if i leave my country in the hands of these idiots for economic, security or wat ver reason would i be doing the right thing? For u may be but not for me and that is what my argument is all about. Its not a question of who is patriotic and who is not its a question of justification. If u thing that overseas Pakistanis were/are justified in leaving the country for the reasons u have mentioned than fair enough but for me those reasons are not justification.

To err is human to keep on doing so is essentially me

54

[quote]
Originally posted by ghalib:
**>>>Though I won't begin to go into details but I know that there are problems of load-shedding, government redtape, etc.

Well, we have load shedding in amreeeeka as well. Kinda makes you feel like you;re back home...**
[/quote]

I am not sure if I got my intended meaning across. I had meant to say that with whatever someone wants to do, there are always others things at a higher level that would, somehow, hamper the efforts. I had read an interview, in a tech magazine, with an IT manager from Pakistan. He mentioned that there were opportunities in Pakistan for software houses to be built but what good they would be with constant load-shedding.

I want to do business with Pakistani products. I can't since the goverment is on the take. I knew of the business woman who used to make potpuri (for those who might not know: it's an arromatic mixture of flowers and various woods and placed in a room to freshen the air). Got the first container of flowers fine but the next was full of cardboard with a thin layer of flowers on top.

There are a LOT of opportunities available for Pakistani products, the labor is a big advantage, the location is ideal, the people are talented but the SYSTEM is so screwed and the checks and balances are so weak that few of these opportunities are realized.

I see Pakistani people in all walks of life who amaze me. Why is it that these same people have no hope in Pakistan? Why is it that many of the bright minds are forced to leave Pakistan to study abroad (not talking about Masters or PHd).

If Pakistan is need of talent why doesn't it do away with many of the hurdles that so many are not able to cross? Why aren't people given a chance in life based on merit and not on domicile (I think I know what that means but can't seem to fathom a clear understanding behind it and justify at a higher level).

My personal observation is that if the SYSTEM were to be changed and made responsive to the needs of the nation to woh zameen sona uglay.
Many, countless of us overseas Pakistanis, truly believe in that.

The topic is the why not people come back to Pakistan since that land needs us. The underlying reason is that that the nationl needs us to help it, or am I wrong in understanding the statement? If I am correct then why not attack the situation backward...meaning we try to understand what is the desired situation being aimed for. We, then, work the problem backwards to see what is preventing the desired situation from materialzing and on, and on, and on.

We can touch upon many individual problems but in a culture and a nation every every aspect, every situation, and every scenario is connected with another. I believe we look at many things without understanding the bigger picture.

As far as the Pakistanis returning as called for in this topic: look at the Jews. Most of the Jews live outside Isreal. Many have never been to Isreal. There is NO reason I see that Pakistanis should return to Pakistan if they can do more good for the country by staying where they are.

55

hey guys wat ever u say tht this is the reason or that is the reason but we all know the reason in our heart n that is we r not happy in pakistan coz we think that we r not paid well here aur wo kehtain hain na dollars ki chamak hi bohat hai i no u wont agree with me but this is the fact

56

Nia: I said Effort not grades! Again it seems that this argument is flying way above yer heads.........."you cant tackle a Problem by runnin away from it" So what if Leaders are crap Have you helped them in any way?

When Pakistan Charities happen here I make it a point to donate somethin.

Just One question.....

How long has it been you people have been to your country?

Jannu: Load Shedding is a Problem (I admit) but its not as if the govt. is not doin anythin about it.

They have started to plan dams all across Punjab and sindh so Electricity is widely available.

Last year only about 20 cities had Internet now a days its about 200+

So you see they are tryin and Inshahallah will succeed. little steps make a complete ladder!!

Ghalib: can you Define The HELP expats are willing to give?

As Far as I see Pakistan in the eyes of Expat pakistanis is little more than a cespit.

I had a friend in canada who wouldn't go to Pak cuz his mom thought he'll catch malaria of yellow feaver.

No on is in a position to critisize(be it Expats or Locals)It's just that some people are bien unfair in thier asesment of Pak!!

As JFK Said
"Ask not what your country can do for you. ask what you can do for yer country"

When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!

57

Originally posted by fantastic1:
**but tell me if i leave my country in the hands of these idiots for economic, security or wat ver reason would i be doing the right thing? For u may be but not for me and that is what my argument is all about. **

And what about people who did not leave the country themselves but left with their parents at a young age or were born abroad.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

**Its not a question of who is patriotic and who is not its a question of justification. **

You did not but someone sure said that overseas pakistanis who dont come back have bo right on the country..go back and read all the posts

58

[quote]
Originally posted by ATTITUDE:
hey guys wat ever u say tht this is the reason or that is the reason but we all know the reason in our heart n that is we r not happy in pakistan coz we think that we r not paid well here aur wo kehtain hain na dollars ki chamak hi bohat hai i no u wont agree with me but this is the fact
[/quote]

Not necessarily, i have known doctors and businessmen who were doing well in Pakistan and have moved abroad because of issues with safety and security.

dollar ki chamak kay saath uss ko kamamay mein jo mehnat hoti hai uss kay paseenay ki bhi chamak hoti hai..

maybe people just dont want to stay there less due to chamak of dollars elsewhere, maybe the chamak of the bullets and the deep rich red color of the flowing blood or the soothign green of the rishwat notes..

59

fraudia
apko her chees ki chamak impress karti hai laiken apni maati ki chamak nahi khainchti apni maati ki khushboo nahi aati riswat ki notoon kai sath sath aur bhi kuch mehssos karaain

60

[quote]
Originally posted by ATTITUDE:
fraudia
apko her chees ki chamak impress karti hai laiken apni maati ki chamak nahi khainchti apni maati ki khushboo nahi aati riswat ki notoon kai sath sath aur bhi kuch mehssos karaain
[/quote]

chanda

lets keep away from personal attacks here. number 1 har cheez ki chamak impress nahi karti number 2 matti ki chamak nay 2 daffa khanecha tha, magar dekh liya wahan ja kar keh wahan kay basnay walon nay mulk kya kya hashar kiya hua hai.

I am sorry but I can not go to Pakistan to live right now.

As i noted before, does everyone who lives in Pakistan make more positive contributions than negative? looking at the situation it seems like people who live there dont give a damn, otherwise the country would not be where it is.

why does the wattan ki matti ki chamak not impress people who live there? why cant they take care of their home..lecture dena bohot asaan hai aur kaam karna bohot tough.

Pakistan ki jo halat tabah hai, its due to people who live there, not due to people who dont.

chammak ki baat hai na, the nation needs to see its own "aks" in a mirror.