y ppl r not ready to come back

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21

Shah Jahan

I grew up overseas, and went back to live in Pakistan. The family decided after numerous events including robberies, kidnaps, car jacking etc that we should move back out.

Forget about overseas Pakistanis who are not willing to go back..the number of Pakistanis who grew up there and live there and have either gotten out are are trying to get out kills your whole argument.

Why are people in pakistan itching to get out? You tell me that and that will answer your question about expats as well.

[This message has been edited by Fraudz (edited June 28, 2001).]

22

bolti band?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

23

nahi abhi nahi
look u ppl potray that there is a lot of oppertunity out there to the young lot if u ppl start coming back thn ppl will under satnd tht there is nothing abroad n they will settle in pakistan but who so ever goes abroad he start abusing pakistan which make other ppl think their way
plzzzz come back ur self n dont make others leave this country pakistan needs u

24

All of you who are living abroad and saying that Pakistan isnt secure enough to live, are actually saying that no one should live there?? In other words you mean to say everyone should leave this country 'coz there is no more security???

Who will run our Country? Americans? Indians? Germans? Chinese? who??? if not Pakistanis then who???? Why people are so scared of living in their own homeland? why they cant just live and try to change the system (which is almost impossible to change I know) but still there is a hope, no? you cant escape from your own responsiblities!! Is that what Pakistan has made for??? and then people say they are proud to be a Pakistani!! strange...

25

No .. I am saying that I did not create the mess in Pakistan, I did not enjoy any benefits of the mess in Pakistan, I did not support it, I did not sit on my butt when things were getting bad.

The onus of fixing the mess is on the people who live there. Unless what we are saying is that people living in Pakistan are incapable of fixing their problems and need outside help to do that.

26

Fraudia can i ask something Did we the younger generation who have inhereted this mess and have no role in creating it should leave the dountry sating we have nothing to do with the mess so why we bother let the aliens come and resolve the problems?

Wat Pakistanis are doing my moving abroad is not something positive at all but they r leaving because of the same reason people before them left they aren't coming back neither are people like u who due to whatever reason decided to leave the country but they have no right on this country after that decision is made whether u agree with it or not kiun key doost wohi jo moosibut mein sath they and my hope might be at the lowest but its still there and don't u overseas desis have only onething to do to blamme us the 'bloody' Pakistanis all the time by saying we criticise them because we care about our country keep doing that and be happy where ever u people are but let me tell u something u don;t care about the country because if u had u hadn't left or would have come back.

To err is human to keep on doing so is essentially me

27

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by fantastic1:
Fraudia can i ask something Did we the younger generation who have inhereted this mess and have no role in creating it should leave the dountry sating we have nothing to do with the mess so why we bother let the aliens come and resolve the problems?

Okay how much mess has the younger generation inherited and how much has it created? You cant tell me that there is the same amount of cheating and ghunda gardee going on in colleges and universities that was there 2 decades ago. So who inherited what , and who took part in what?

*Wat Pakistanis are doing my moving abroad is not something positive at all but they r leaving because of the same reason people before them left they aren't coming back neither are people like u who due to whatever reason decided to leave the country *

Oh no babay, Some of us were born abroad, grew up abroad and had big ideas about the country until we decided to move back and saw what had been going on.

** but they have no right on this country after that decision is made whether u agree with it or not kiun key doost wohi jo moosibut mein sath they **

First of all no single person has a right to decide who has a right where. secondly, expatriates have done tons for the country one way or the other. For a poor country like Pakistan foriegn exchange is a great gift of expats. There is and was no reason for expats to keep there money in Pakistani banks, but they did.

I would argue that people who were in Pakistan who created the mess, or did not do anything to stop the mess have less right on the country than those who at the minimum did not do anything to harm the country.

*but let me tell u something u don;t care about the country because if u had u hadn't left or would have come back. *

**

Heck, some of us had no choice in leaving the country, either we were too young, or were born abroad to begin with. As far as coming back..Almost everyone in my family who was abroad did go back to Pakistan..and most moved back out. Others who spent ages in middle east saving up to start industry or business in Pakistan decided to move out after having issues.

I surely did not make the decision to leave the country in the first place, nor did I make the decision to move back out, but I did make the decision to not go back.

Say whatever you want to say about expats, ut we did not bribe examiners to cheat in exams, we did not pay off people to get into colleges and universities. We did not pay off off officials to cheat on taxes, we did not abuse government programs like yellow cabs or industrial land for educated youth for personal gain, we did not mindlessly join extremist groups and kill our own people. We did not kill people based on religion or sect or ethnicity.

Hey we were not in the country...someone did it, sure as hell was not me. maybe was not you either...but those who did that were in the country.

So why and when did it become my responsibility to go fix the mess that people who live there chose to ignore, chose to adopt, and chose to stay silent about.

You want change, start a revolution, oh yes its going to be a bloodfest..but bloody revolutions have their own results. so instead of giving expats a lecture..go do something.

The post started by asking people why expats dont want to come back..lets hear the reasons before we jump to conclusions. How does this sound?

[This message has been edited by Fraudz (edited June 28, 2001).]

28

Well all of the discusion shows that NO ONE has come back to Pakistan. Well I know people who came back to pakistan , had to face alot of problems n then ultimately settled in. Although it is a difficult decision but I think it all depend on the priorities u have set for ur self.

I myself left Germany when got an opportunity in Pakistan. Although I m paid 1/6 , having alot of problems but my priority is to live in Pakistan acc. to my own culture,n religion.So I have to do this.I m not telling that I have done this coz " Pakistan se bohot ziada mohobbat hai "
But i dont want to see some people just start kissing ( or the stuff like that)in front of ur kids n wife.

One more thing Once u leave ur soil then ur whole generation have to do this ( running from pplace to place).The hatred for asian community isgrowing ,beleive me it will start soon in America too, as had started in UK n in the african countries.

This is my opinion n every one has the right to have one.

If u see the moon
U will see a star near it

29

One of the things we, overseas Pakistanis, do to help change conditions in Pakistan is to identify the corruption, case of human rights abuses, briberies, extra-judicial killings, political murders, child labor issues, women's rights issues, rising pollution, smugglings, drugs, and sectarian killings, to name a few, to our local authorities and ask them to put pressure on Pakistan to start addressing these issues. And why not?

Like Fraudia said, those living in the country have to become fed up with the system or nothing gets done. What if those living overseas are fed up. They comprise less then 10%? of the population. Majority of the people, first, have to decided when enough is enough. Until that happens, what can we do? Nothing. We don't have critical mass.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

30

Fraudia,

I wonder where you get this Info About people moving away from Pakistan from......

Yes People are leaving but not at the rate your saying.

On the contrary, Lots of people are movin Back!!

Allah has given Us Pakistani Roots and we must make sure the roots are there!!!for those roots have an Islamic Base(wasn't that why pak was created).

i got my Canadian passport after livin 5 years in canada. when we shifted to Jeddah I called my self a Canadian. But sooner or later(coz when i said"I'm canadian" they asked "no where are you orianally from)
I stopped callin My self that and now when anyone asks where are you from I always say I'm From pak!!

the Morale of the story is
"what ever you do you can't leave your roots behind" the more you accuse them the more drift away from the reality of things!!!

(I'm Proud Of Bein A Pakistani and if I was given I choice I would not be born anywhere else)!!

When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!

31

and yes, i am MORE likely to be killed on the streets like other fellow citizens..

no man, if cost of BEING alive comes AWAY from roots, i wanna be alive and thus wanna be able to leave the home safely and come back safely.. :)

abb meri shaam hay aur shughal-e-sharaab 'o saaghar,
abb meri raat hay aur gosha-e-mekhana hay,
peetay peetay hi soorat kuch aur karni hay,
aur jeetay jeetay isee andaaz say marr jana hay..

32

Economics and finances are usually the reasons for migration, if all of us pakistans who are abroad had financial opportunities in Pakistan, very few of us would be outside.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong in migrating for this reason.
Also, all of the world belongs to all humans, God did not create any boundaries between countries, the people did. So nationalistic ideology like this is quite irrational.

Wise to resolve, and patient to perform. --Homer

33

Attitude: Ji you are very rite but, Who said pakistani’s are scared of crimes or rape or murders its everywhere But here (insaan ko insaan samjha jata hay but, in pakistan insaan ko insaan nahi oos ki position se jana jata hay.. Aisa koi paki nahi hoga is dunia kay kisi konay main jisay pakistan se mohubbat na ho Ager hum Allah (god all mighty)se mohubbat kartay hain to is ka mutlub ye nahi kay we have to live in KAABA..

Here take this and Qaaed-E- Azam kay mazaar per charha dana.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/flower1.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/flower2.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/flower1.gif

Thanks,

SP,

34

Attitude Ji ,

Kya Marnay waloon ki taadaad kum ho gaye hay
ya pakistan main bagers ki zaroorat per gaye hay jo aap bahar se loog bulwa rahay hain yahan to hum sakoon say kha kama rahay hain wahaan kya aap koi bagers assosiation khool rahay hain kay sub ko kaam milay ga…

Jis din Pakistan ko shaheedoon ki zaroorut paray gi tub bulana mujhay yaqeen hay 90%
paki apnay watan ki mutti main apna khoon shaamil karnay kay liye pohunhch jayen gay.

SP,

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

35

I am willing to come back but only with enough financial security to not rely on earning a single paisa in Pakistan. Life in Pakistan is as harsh as it is rewarding but those of expats who consider it "fun" while visting don't have the faintest idea as to how an average "Javed" (to quote pir sahib) struggles through the day to put food on the table.

Some of the stuff Fraudia says, I don't agree with. But he's right about one thing. Why do people back home expect expats to come and fix the problem when they don;t even live there and deal with the problems day-in and day-out. This reflects on the society in general that we have accepted corruption, bribery, killing, sect. violence etc. etc. as part of life and treat it as "if it doesn't affect me directly, I don't wanna bother with it."

I feel expats have an obligation to Pakistan. They have a responsibility to be involved with reforms or changes, but the need for reforms and changes need to be initiated from within Pakistan and by the resident Pakistanis. Expats already have a proved track record of helping Pakistan (its economy and its cause). They're financially and professionaly capable of supplementing, not inititating, the reforms.

36

[quote]
Originally posted by ATTITUDE:
nahi abhi nahi
look u ppl potray that there is a lot of oppertunity out there to the young lot if u ppl start coming back thn ppl will under satnd tht there is nothing abroad n they will settle in pakistan but who so ever goes abroad he start abusing pakistan which make other ppl think their way
plzzzz come back ur self n dont make others leave this country pakistan needs u
[/quote]

Oo Bhai we still have families over there
keun zubz baag dekha rahay ho first give the jobs and so called oppertunity to young ppl who are living there Baat kartay hain..

aab mujhay yaqeen hogaya hay kay tum bagger's association kay chairman ho...

oye Fuji # 00 Jao jakay Fuji Corn flakes khao aur jaan banaoo..

SP..

37

Umer I sincerely hope this experince turns out t/ best for you and you gain some valuable insight into our Pakistani life. I'd stay away from t/ American wannabees tho, cuz they represent only a minor % of our society, but mingle w/ our middle class & lower (only financially) masses where you see t/ real Pakistanis who have absolutely no alternative but to survive in Pakistan. Koodos to them. Do tell us what sort of a job you are going for and in what city??

We grew up in Pakistan and wud love to go back, but dont have t/ money nor t/ big names for "sifaarish". I understand sum1 has to start it, but when you see yur loved ones treated unfairly day in day out, due to lack of "sifaarish" and "haraam kaa paisaa" you just wanna scream and run. Once we win t/ lotto, then yes!! (Altho it helps if we get t/ tickets first) Pakistan is a great place to live if you got mega bucks.

:Sharmindagii say sur jhukaa hua icon:

38

Ghalib

man u state my thoughts better than i do at this topic.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I just get frustrated when people assume that if you are overseas you are not providing service to your country. or that one needs to be in Pakistan to provide service.

I still believe the primary responsibility is of people who are there.

39

Well, My dad after 20 years working abroad try to settle in Karachi. He did get a very good job with multi nation company but the people there made his life hel. They never missed a opportunity to make his job difficult. as a result after 3 years my dad give up and returned to his old job oversease. BTW I am talking about 1983-87. At the time reason for hatred by colleagues was because my dad was panjabi and they all were mahajir and plus because he got higher salary then his manager because he had 20 years experience.

Now after living in europe I cannot think of going back and live there despite my deep desire to go back and help country and my people.. I mean I have adonted the life her and I cannot think that I will be able to adjust in soceity where money is God. If you have money you can any thing.

CE is trying hard to make better country, so if he gets law and order situation in control, I most probably will go there for 2/3 years to see how it workout.

Attitude,
I think most of overseas pakistani want to help their country and go back(may be) BUT only if our HUM WATAN (countrymen) let us help them. woh kia kehte hain keh "Ghore ko pani tak laa sakte ho lekin pani pila nahi sakte".

[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited June 29, 2001).]

40

guys the thing which i want to figure out is that ok there is corruption every where in pakistan but the valus in our country r still up to that level in which we can feel safe in upbringung our children,although i dont have any yet but im sure ill opt for pakistan for their up bringing i wont like my dayghters live in a society where there is no values n no culture where my children will forget relegion n where they will b made fun of only because that they dont go dates etc wat d u think ppl