Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JINN?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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In the Quran, it is repeatedly written that Allah asked angels to bow Adam e.g:

2:34:
And (remember) when We said to the angels: “Prostrate yourselves before Adam.”. And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah).

Similarly in the following ayah, but here its also written that Iblees is Jinn, so if God asked angels to bow than why Iblees was blamed of disobeying as he is a jinn not an angel.

18:50:
And (remember) when We said to the angels; “Prostrate to Adam.” So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc).

Similarly;

7:11:
And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, “Prostrate to Adam”, and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.

But in the very next ayah its written that Allah asked iblees that why he did not bow when he was commanded.

7:12:
(Allah) said: “What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?” Iblis said: “I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay.”

So if he was not commanded then why he did not reply to God that You did not ask me to do so? And if he was commanded then why it is always written in the Quran that Allah ordered angels to prostrate? And if Iblees was angel too then why he was written jinn in 18:50? And if he was not angel and he was jinn then why he was blamed for not obeying as order to bow was for angels?

Very confusing… Needs help!!!

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

The first part of verse 2:34 is most likely employing generalized form of communication . For example, a room may be full of males and females but they can be addressed as "hello guys!". This rule is often adopted in many languages where majority or the most weighty tense is used to refer to a group. In Arabic this rule is called 'Taghleeb' and another example of such verse in Quran is verse of purification (33:33) where the group addressed contains both males and females but since males are in greater numbers, masculine language is used in the verse.

Iblis is confirmed as a jinn by Quran in other places as you have mentioned. Therefore he could have been part of the group of angels when they were ordered as a group to bow to Adam (as). Or Iblis might have been ordered separately from the angels. Here is a tradition that indicates Iblis being ordered on his own;

As-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said: "Iblis was ordered to prostrate before Adam, and he said: 'O my Lord! By Thy honor! If Thou excusest me from prostrating before Adam, I would certainly worship Thee a worship no one would ever have worshipped Thee in a like manner.' Allah, Great is His glory!, said: 'I like to be worshipped according to My own pleasure.'" (Bihar ul Anwar).

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

Thanx for your reply.
I know the rule of Taghleeb, but in the class of 99% males and 1%females, male and female are both humans, but angels and jinns do not belong to the same group. Why is it not written like: God ordered His creations to prostrate to Adam????
Thanx for the example you gave me from Bihar ul Anwar, but is there any such example in Quran?

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

lol Does a jinn not have to obey the orders of Allah (swt)? When He commanded his angels to prostrate to Adam (as), Iblees was among them. Pagluu already mentioned taghleeb.. In Arabic, not even when it comes to gender, but it is correct to say "Look at these Iraqis", even when there are 10 Iraqis and 2 Lebanese.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

[15:26] We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:27] And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.

38:76 said: "I am better than he: thou createdst me from fire, and him thou createdst from clay."

The above verses indicates that Iblis was created before Adam (as). And it is known to us through traditions that Iblis was pick of the jinns; one whom Allah (swt) had raised to the ranks of the malook/angels due to his worship. Thus it might be the reason we see him addressed in same group as the angels.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

Quran introduces itself as the guidance for the worlds [3:96]; the manifest light [4:174], and the explanation of every thing [16:89]. However the real knowledge of the book is hidden except from the servants of Allah (swt) whom are exalted [58:11] and purified [56:77-79]. It is Prophet (saww) who is appointed by Allah (swt) to purify us and teach the Book and the wisdom [62:2]. And it is the Prophet (saww) who confimed that after him it was his progeny that was exalted [3:33], purified [3:33], and with real knowlede of the book [3:7, 13:43]. Thus Allah (swt) declared loving [42:23] & following [4:59] the family an obligation. Therefore if our answers are not apparent to us from Quran then we must refer back to the Prophet and his progeny [16:43] as they are our access to the All knower and Sustainer, i.e. Allah the Almighty [6:59].

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

P.S. I have not checked the authenticity of the translation of Quran you quoted.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

for the original poster..... islam calls for submission and blind faith in Allah. may be you are not muslim? may be you are! then u need ur faith renewed ........

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

zakir naik:

[quote]

Iblis- Angel or Jinn?
The Qur’an in several places says that Iblis was an angel, but in Surah Kahf
it says that Iblis was a Jinn. Isn’t this a contradiction in the Qur’an?

  1. Incidence of Iblis and Angels mentioned in the Qur’an The story of Adam and Iblis is mentioned in the Qur’an in various places in which Allah (swt) says, "We said to the angels bow down to Adam: and they bowed down: not so Iblis". This is mentioned in: Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verse 43 Surah Al ‘Araf chapter 7 verse 17 Surah Al Hijr chapter 15 verses 28-31 Surah Al Isra chapter 17 verse 61 Surah Ta Ha chapter 20 verse 116 Surah Sad chapter 38 verses 71-74

But in Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 the Qur’an says:
"Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam." they bowed down except
Iblis He was one of the Jinns." [Al-Qur’an 18:50]

  1. Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb
    The English translation of the first part of the verse ‘We said to the angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis’, gives us the impression that Iblis was an angel. The Qur’an was revealed in Arabic. In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for example, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her seperately.
    Similarly in the Qur’an, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur’an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore there is no contradiction in the Qur’an.

  2. Jinns have free will and can disobey Allah
    Secondly, Jinns have a free will and may or may not obey Allah, but angels have no free will and always obey Allah. Therefore the question of an angel disobeying Allah does not arise. This further supplements that Iblis was a Jinn and not an angel.
    [/quote]

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

errr, no! where does it say in Islam not to use your mind and question and probe? (remember Ibrahim, Khalilullah?) how could this be the case when the authenticity of the Book of Allah (swt) itself depended on rational proof and coninues to challenge the mankind on the same grounds? throughout the Quran there are demands to meditate on the Quranic verses in order to remove any apparent discrepancy in them and thus strengthening ones' belief in Allah (swt).

The original poster asked a reasonable question and posted it in a nice enough manner to warrant discussion.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

when did hazrat Ibrahim Question Allah? he questioned his ancestors ways!! this "reasonable" questioning of Quran And Allah tells about week faith thats all.
and then we wonder about the hardships we people are facing in world.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

^
[2:260] When Abraham said: "Show me, Lord, how You will raise the dead, " He replied: "Have you no faith?" He said "Yes, but just to reassure my heart." Allah said, "Take four birds, draw them to you, and cut their bodies to pieces. Scatter them over the mountain-tops, then call them back. They will come swiftly to you. Know that Allah is Mighty, Wise."

[16:120] Abraham was indeed a model, devoutly obedient to Allah, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

Who told you that Islam wants Muslim to have blind faith on Allah?

Well, if Islam wanted Muslims to have blind faith on Allah then truth of Islam would have become questionable, as only Iblis (Shaitan) wants people to have blind faith on God they worship, and thus only Kuffar (or misguided even if they call themselves Muslims) have blind faith on God they worship.

It is necessary for Kuffars to have blind faith, because if they would not have blind faith on what they worship, they would reject what they worship, as what they worship is illogical, irrational, and logically ignorance.

Islam does not ask Muslims to worship something illogical, irrational, and logically ignorance, so there is no reason for Islam to ask Muslims to have blind faith.

Actually, Allah has even justified his existence and 'being' in Quran logically at many places, asking Muslims to think and then accept him as their God, shows that Allah do not want Muslims to worship him as deity blindly.

That is different matter that every human in his heart knows his creator, but when living in this world where Allah is testing human souls, for that inherent knowledge that every human possesses to turn into faith on Allah, Allah asks humans to question, ponder, understand, recognise, accept, believe and develop faith.

What I know, every person (that includes Muslims) would be asked after death that what they worship and why? Those who would have blind faith would be treated same, regardless of whatever they worship, be an idol or Allah, because in the end, cause of worship for both would be same, that is blind faith (faith without thinking and questioning) on a deity they inherited from their parents or told by their teacher to worship. It is obvious, since reason of their worship is same, treatment would be same regardless, as Allah is not partial.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

^^ cont:
In Quran, Allah used story of prophets to send believers a message. Story of Ibrahim (AS) is one of such message that Allah told Muslims in Quran, and that is, to question, understand, recognise and than Accept Allah as deity.

[Note: Ibrahim (AS) was prophet and prophet are born, not selected. Prophet knows Allah inherently and do not need to question, understand, recognise and then accept Allah, but since Allah uses stories of prophets to make believers understand Islam, prophets have gone through events that left stories for guidance. Story of Ibrahim (AS) is also events that happened for guidance, stories that later Allah told believers to get guidance.]

Here is story of Ibrahim (AS) questioning, understanding, recognising and then accepting Allah as deity.

Quran Surah 6, ayah 75-79

006.075: *YUSUFALI:* So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude (certainty, surety).

006.076: *YUSUFALI:* When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set."

006.077: YUSUFALI: When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."

006.078: YUSUFALI: When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.

006.079: *YUSUFALI:* "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah."

Obviously, when Ibrahim (AS) was saying that star is my Lord then rejecting 'star' when they set, then saying that Moon is my lord then rejecting Moon when he saw Moon setting, then saying that Sun is my lord and then rejecting Sun when he saw sun setting ... does not mean that Ibrahim (AS) became Mushrik at time he was saying such things, as no prophet could do shirk, even for a moment. It only means that Ibrahim (AS) was going through phase where he questioned, then after setting of these heavenly bodies, he rejected them and took another heavenly body, then rejected all heavenly bodies one by one, understood, recognised that such bodies (or anything else) could not be Lord, and then eventually recognised and accepted Allah as deity. Allah mentioned this story in Quran so that believers could understand what is expected from them, that is they should question, think, understand, recognise, accept, believe, and then increase their faith on Allah.

[Quoted 'quranic ayah 2:260' by Pagluu on the issue tells us regarding increasing of faith in humans once something becomes clear and verified ... also shows that faith is not 'stagnant or constant' (that is, it is there or it is not there) as some believe but it increases or decreases ... in other word, varies with time within individual humans]

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

Just as a side info:

"Even Angels Asked"...................(This is the title of a muslim convert/revert whatever you call... Jeffry Lang's book also)

Angels did ask Allah for creating Human (Adam AS) saying human will create fasad and bloodshed. Angels did not disobey but questioned.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

Ok this bugged me a few weeks ago.

Why did Allah SWT order prostration in front of anyone else but HIM? Prostration being an act of worship and what not!

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

There are 2 types of bowing down/prostration. One is out of worship and the other is out of love and respect.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

Peace STONECOLD

This is to root out those who are obedient to Allah from those who are obedient to their own sense of rationale and reasoning. The former will obey Him, the latter will not. This injunction teaches us that:

Obeying our God is greater than obeying our God given ability to think.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

For the main post ... Brother Diwana aced it ... MashAllah!

Being the most witty surely Iblees would have responded with "I didn't prostrate because You asked the angels, but I am Jinn".

Instead, he considered himself "an angel" in rank and duty. And was treated as "angel" in rank and duty. When it comes to substance he is very much Jinn. When the "angels we commanded" their rank and duty was being called upon not the definition of their substance.

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Re: Y IBLIS BEING BLAMED FOR DISOBEYING AS ORDER TO BOW WAS FOR ANGELS & IBLIS IS JIN

I think stonecold's question was in regards to God ordering Angels prostrating to Adam. Do Angels have an ability to disobey? if NO then there is no need for a test. And the bolded part looks troublesome otherwise humans would not be called Ashraful Makhlookat.