Wrong Interpretation

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Doc2000,
Can a true Muslim recognize other religions? Will you give an honest answer?

You have twisted the reply. If you have objection to my using the word ‘True’….…..I can delete it.

What I can pick up from your big lectures that majority Muslims are not living as per Islam.
Mullahs are not training the minors at Madrisa as per Islam.

So what is left of Islam?

You see I am not using any anti-Islamic sites to impress or inflate you. At the same time I have no interest in opening the all odd Ayats of Quran only to counter with a typical reply that I do not know the context.

Still I want to ask you as you have stated of your ‘Psychological background’……

What a minor can pick up from a madrisa after spending many thousand hours in learning Quran?

You are particularly running away from this issue.
It is very important to understand if this learning makes these minors forward or backward in their future life. Does it make them broad minded or narrow minded?
(Ps, Sorry I am using your vocabulary.)

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Doc2000
You have challenged that I know nothing how Islam has changed the psychology of Arabs.
In your earlier posts you have done your best to make me understand that Muslims (including Arabs) do not follow true Islam.

Which statement shall I accept factual?

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Thats kinda rich coming from u.

Lets broker a deal..I have no problems answering your queries( as i've done thruout, ie given u specific answers to your specific questions)..But what u need to do 1st is put the argument to rest by giving me what i've asked u thruout ( so far in vain!!)..Give me evidence and solid facts to your belief that Islam is the reason for the halt in progression.
Like i have said, i have no problems answering your queries.. i'll give u this last chance..If u don't give it , we'll have to assume the obvious...You have a true Muslims word that your queries will be attended to if u prove your argument worthwhile to even take forward.

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doc2000...Now I am sure that you that you come from a psychological background. Very nice reply!

You know well that analyzing my enquiry will automatically reveal how much Islam is progressive and scientific.

So, if you have guts and you believe in the truthfulness of Islam....stand it and answer!

I have systematically brought you to this point; otherwise like any other impatient chatter I could run for baseless anti-Islamic sites.

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:confused: All rational thinking goes to drain.

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You have systematically bought me to this point?.. How interesting.you're sounding like a joke..Just go back thru your answers and observe how systematic u have come across..

It does'nt take to be from a psychologocal background to demand a simple answer for a straight forward question which u have ignored thruout..and then u have the nerve to assume that i have failed to answer your querie or rather your thoughts on Islam.
It does'nt even take a psychological mind to have to analyse who is beating round the bush..All it takes is a basic obervational sense or common sense.
I have told u right from the start that i will be honest in all my answers and i have stood by it..can't say that about u!!!

I should not have to answer your opinions as they are only yours and not some thing out from true Islam as per the argument thruout.

But to feed your ego, i'll pay you the courtesy.

You seem to be obssessed by madrassas and children going to them..
If u had studied Islam, you would have been enlighted by the fact that it is no where mentioned that it is a compulsion or neccesity for a child to have to go to a madrassa let alone be educated by a mulla..
Islam can be taught anywhere, home , nursery, school, college, university etc...Infact it states that there should be a balance b/w islamic education and other forms of education...100's of years ago, madrassas were places of great education (Just like other religions had places of thier own education)..The biggest example being the Al-Adha university( If u've even heard of it!!).

Unfortunately madrassas(majority) of today have been reduced to mere places of rote learning of the Quran in ghettos and reduced to places for the poor who can't afford a decent education ( of course they are bad and serve no benefit to Islam)..So if common sense prevailed we can conclude that they pick up nothing from madrassas..So is that due to todays Muslims or due to Islam .

Nxt point about psychology of Arabs. Read my threads carefully and with an open mind as u like to stress, b4 asking a question or making an assumption.

Yes, I have said that arabs ( majority) do not follow Islam..did i say that they were always like that?..I'm talking about the present and the recent past. In the 600th century..It is believed that the Arab nation was the most corrupt, ignorant and stubborn of people..this changed around quickly during and many centuries after the birth of Islam ( eat your heart out!!) and carried on for many centuries ..(read as many books as u like on Islamic history)..

The problems arose when many sects started forming off shoots of Islam ( by bringing their own beliefs or cultures into it).. that is started moving away from basic islamic teachings based on Haqooq Allah ( mans right towards God ) and Haqooq-Ul-Ibad ( mans duty towards his fellow man..and for your information b4 u make a cry out of it, it includes Muslims & non- Muslims).
So slowly and gradually the Muslims psychology changed ..Not all though b'cos those who based and continue to base Islam on the Quran ( which still makes sense after 1400), ahadith and ijtihad remain good Muslims.. Is that crystal clear?
And for your info. there are still many Islamic scholars around the world who have spent thier whole lives studying Islam and attempting to bring Muslims back to the straight path...But the likes of u even ridicule them with your own opinions and baseless/ignorant assumptions of islam...there is a difference between an Isalmic scholar and mulla..look it up for your sake..U might be in for surprise.

There is even a saying by the Holy Prophet (PBUH) that one of the signs of the end of times is that there will be a time when there will be many Muslims on this planet, but there will be only a handful who will be following true Islam..

You have categorically stated in the last few posts that u do not want to base your argument on Islamic or anti -islamic sites or that u don't have an interest in opening up the odd Ayat to make a counter argument ..Then what are u basing your facts on..Its opinions is'nt it...

So lets not beat round the bush any more ..Just swallow your pride and say that your thoughts on Islam are your own opinions ( as per urself it is not from an un/islamic site or the Quran).. Just say yes or no.

Do "U" have the "guts" to say it?...

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Well, i gotta say doc2000, u took the words right out of my mouth.
and anjaan i dont know how to explaini t better but i’ll try.
Muslims today are horrible, because they dont’ follow what islam tells them do exactly.
When muslims did follow what ISlam told them to (which has onyl happened once so far), they did exceed, and were not in the dark ages at all. That was the golden era of islam which was a hundred times better then the Europes golden age. The proof of which is in front of u in the forms of architecture, literature, and even science, and math. if u dont agree to that, i dont know what to say, bc that is a fact that the whole world agrees to. its not even debatable.

An again, more proof to show you that Islam is perfect, and that when muslims do follow islam to the core, then u have people such as Bernard Shaw(one of the greatest thinkers ouf our time, and no he wasnt even muslim) saying about Mohammad(SWS) (the perfect muslim) that “He must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness.”
(The Genuine Islam, Singapore, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936)

he has also said “I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”
the link is : George Bernard Shaw - Wikipedia

and again
LAMARTINE, the renowned historian speaking on the essentials of human greatness wonders:

“If greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls…his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was two-fold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.”

and again

“Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all the standards by which Human Greatness may be measured, we may well ask, Is there any man greater than he?”
(Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp 276-277)

There are tons more including greats like Gandhi. the link is http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/additionalsayings.html

So plz dont take it from us, take it from the experts if u want, but Islam is perfect and flawless, it is the best religion but has the worst followers. not to be insultful but u hae very little knowledge about Islam, if u do however want to learn more i would suggest: http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.php
its great

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Thanks ITB..You have really rounded it up pretty succinctly.

All we need is a yes or no answer from our misinformed/baseless opinioned friend.

Lets see if he has it within him to be honest with himself ( and of course to us).

Thanks again.

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doc 2000 ......I really really appreciate your efforts to answer queries of those who dont want to understand anything................you posted things which i would have posted to answer the queries........Awsome

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So many big lectures and nothing concrete with the biggest excuse…..that the best ideology has procured the worst followers.

Is it a failure or success??????

So, having a psychological background you find it shivering to touch a small psychological issue. …..How a Madrisa moulds the minor’ mind??????

You want to say that 'Madrisa for minors' is not a compulsion. Interesting information! When and who started this system????
(I never asked you about Madrisas where elders get education Re Al-Adha University….I am only asking you what mind-shape minors get from a Madrisa?)

Can a Muslim recognize other religions?????
In your evergreen lengthy reply you have escaped this question.

‘Ilm’ knowledge….Does it mean knowledge of mathematics, science, geography etc as per Quran????
(May be I have missed the relating Ayat, will be thankful if you enlighten me.)
Or does it mean the knowledge of Almighty…the only one Allah and what he has said thru his last messenger?

If today this is the best version of Arabs, I doubt what they were in 6th-7th century.

There is a verse in Quran….

A man can marry one woman or two, only if he can remain impartial……he can marry the third and the forth provided he remains impartial. Or otherwise he must satisfy himself with two or one or he must satisfy himself with his maid-servant, (‘laundi’).

  1. Today Arabs who follow Islam do not have more than four wives, (as it was a custom in 6th-7th century that they used to marry for one night) but there are many respected Arabs who have married for fifty times but do not have more than four wives at a time and they are always impartial like a true Muslim?????????

  2. One can satisfy himself with his maid-servant (laundi)’….what progressive you find in this Ayat???????

‘that the Arab nation was the most corrupt, ignorant and stubborn of people. this changed around quickly during and many centuries after the birth of Islam …..….’
And what they are today? This is most laughable statement of your posts.

And my friend…Please!!!!! Do not give excuses! Tell me the hard core truth!!!!!!

And have I ever given my opinion so far? I doubt.

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This is information for me. Thanks.

Please inform some web link where I can find a related study to your quote’

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So, ‘I am the best’ (nice nick)………….Bernard Shaw and Gandhi. Why do not you mention Salman Rushdie, a Noble Price winner???

Once I read an interesting article. Why the myths around slam were never countered. Would you like to read it?

You know Tony Blair, Bush and Atal Bihari Vajpei have also said that ‘Islam is a religion of peace’
But for some strange reason Muslims and Islamic sites never mention them. Can you tell me why?

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I am also thankful to him. But I doubt if he is answering to querries or coming out with more and more excuses.

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What do you want to prove anjjan.................as i told you earlier........dont judge the car by its driver...........WE ALL HAVE TO ANSWER INFRONT OF GOD FOR OUR GOOD OR BAD DEEDS.................i know....you not gonna accept anything as you have filled your mind with so many envious thoughts about islam............

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and he is not giving any kinda of excuses....its our duty to expalin if some bhatka hua admi like you asks anything.......and if you dont wanna accept anything tou fine.....you go your way we go our way.........Allah is there to judge everything........

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The Qur’an is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one". The Qur’an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase ‘marry only one’. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religiou scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.

In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (960 C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.

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Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims

The report of the ‘Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam’, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures.

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and people like you never quote the full verse...... never ever....thats why you are not able to understand anything .......and then you come rushing towards us ....do silly chant crap to become some kinda scholar.......I know i am not a scholar or what.....so i try to stick to topics which i can fully explain...and if you really want answers to your queries you must go to sound scholars.....i think ...they are called scholars for this very reason....

Queen of Gup Shup vote for the King - by ladies only
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"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."

                                [Al-Qur’an 4:3]

Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.

In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:

"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur’an 4:129]

Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.

Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:

      i.            ‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory

    ii.            ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged

  iii.            ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed

   iv.            ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged

     v.            ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden

Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife.

Average life span of females is more than that of males

By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females.

During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

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You have a stamp on your heart anjjan which reflects nothing but hatred for Islam..As quite evident from ur posts..Isnt it strange that u seem to be the only one thinking that i am giving excuses!!!

You hypocrite, you portray your self as not wanting to make arguments against Islam from other sites or not interested in Quranic Ayats as u don't know the context ( well that part i'll applaude u for cos it the only honest/sincere thing u've stated all along), then say these are not ur opinions and then u refer us once again to the Christian press..You are stuck in a circle of confusion and you r enticing us to get entangled in that circle..Unlike yourself, we are sure of what we believe in..not only are we thankful for being born Muslims, but also b'cos God has given us the brain to study and understand Islam with an open mind..

I have no more time for ur antics..You have been given enough time and answers to ur baseless & self-opinionated questions...I think u need to make the efoort to look for that hadith your self as u have access to a computer( and i'm sure i know what ur gonna say..but giving evdence to u is fruitless)..u will have no problem finding it..Obviously when u do, u are so anti Islam that u will try to find faults in it ..
I dislike making these statements but your baseless and hypocritical responses/ attitude just to degrade Islam has compelled me to do so.

I'm sure i'll catch u again on another thread spitting out logicless statements..and i'll be on to u.

Good day!!!