Mamaof3: I managed to read up until where you ask why the GS girls want virgins and wouldn't we want someone experienced, etc, and thus why not allow sons to date a bit and to have premarital sex so that they can be experienced for their wives.
Is this correct?
There is a logical fallacy here. If you want your sons to be perfect gentlemen, then for them to be experienced necessitates that they engage in sexual interactions with women without committing to a long term relationship or even marriage. In that case, they will be purposefully destroying someone's life to "get experience".
And that's not too gentlemanly is it?
Unless you think there is nothing morally wrong for a guy to screw a girl and then leave her.
PCG, I see what you're saying. My stance on dating is that its a necessary and integral part of becoming a mature adult in the western world, more details about this in my previous post. This is quite a separate issue from consensual premarital sex. Dating does not mean you go out to fornicate! Its going out with a member of the opposite sex to enjoy a meal,a movie etc and get to know each other and possibly develop a relationship.
Children are taught from toddlerhood about respecting others. In the west, there is no separation of the genders and members of the opposite sex are peers, classmates, colleagues. My boys are being taught to be respectful gentlemen and will be taught that sex is the most personal gift you could ever share with someone you love. Consensual premarital sex does not imply lack of respect on the part of either party. And it really does not imply destroying someones life. I did not mean to imply that I'd want my boys to date for the sole purpose of gaining sexual experience (lol!) That was more a separate question directed to the gals.
Western culture is vastly different from eastern on these issues - dating, sex, separation of the genders. While I attempt to understand eastern values and customs and never insult the customs of others, the reverse is not always the case as you've seen in this thread...
Thank you for asking your questions in a well-mannered and mature way.
Consensual premarital sex does not imply lack of respect on the part of either party. And it really does not imply destroying someones life.
No...it doesn't imply the INTENTIONAL destroying of someone's life or the INTENTIONAL lack of respect on the part of either party. Lets face it - urges are hard to resist while in the moment, and no one is intending on hurting one another. But the consequences after the act (usually much later, when the relationship is being cut off), can be damaging.
I can't speak for guys, but I know for girls the usual thought is "How could I have given myself to him?? I feel impure!" or "He's such a jerk, and I let him actually access my body, I'm such an idiot!".
Dude, personally speaking, I dont have time for that kind of crap.
"I can't speak for guys, but I know for girls the usual thought is "How could I have given myself to him?? I feel impure!" or "He's such a jerk, and I let him actually access my body, I'm such an idiot!"."
Girls who feel this way have been raised in opressive male dominated patriarchal families where their status is just above that of the dog.
PCG, as an adult, when someone makes a decision, it is generally taken for granted that he has weighed the consequences in his mind beforehand. A lot of things can be potentially damaging. If we went by banning stuff because it has the potential to get icky then we won't be left with a whole lot to do.
And in a particular case, if a girl really thinks that her life has been ruined by that one particular night of lovemaking, (though I fail to see how this is possible) then, really, she aught to ask herself whether she is mature enough to make any responsible decision. Odds are she'll be lamenting everytime some critical decision didn't pan out her way. This is a critique of that girl's poor reasoning skills, rathen then a proof against pre-marital sex in all cases.
The type of responses you listed are a result of selective social conditioning and bad judgement. Even in the West, and specially in rural America, the idea of women as a minxy sexpot hasn't entered mainstream yet. When you are told from the beginning that active carving for no-strings-attached sex is an evil on the level of second coming then you will definately have problem accepting sex on a strictly carnal level and enjoying it for what it is.
Obviously, a lot of people will have problem accepting sex on a purely physical level. They should be mature enough to realize that their orientation and belief's might not hold true universally - and as such, moderate their own selves and recognize that different people can possess different attitudes and view-point about a single issue.
Wow, I think the confusion is people's idea of what dating is.
In my mind dating is just a meeting of people. It can be two, three, four, five...etc people on a date. In fact my husband and I have dates with other couples (we meet them for dinner). None of this has anything to do with sex. Just meeting people and enjoying their company.
My daughter goes out in groups of other teens, boys and girls mixed. This way they learn to interact safely. The same goes for my son who is older.
I think if they do this, the become more well-rounded as people, more tolerant of differences and able to get along with others easily.
All that and without once having sex.
One other thing: If you believe that men and women cannot socialize without thinking of sex, then this is a problem that you have, not everyone else in the world. Stop judging people through the filter of your own thoughts.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Mo3 sometimes you post the most on spot things and then you come out with a posting like you did above. If you want your boys to sleep around who on earth do you think they are sleeping with and would you want another mother with your philosophy raising a son who dates your daughter? Slight flaw there in your logic. Plus, the same standards should be applied to everyone, not according to gender.
By the time I posted this PCG already posted on it and passed it by....... Ok, I'm a slow old lady :)
well sorry, minah pa, i have no girls...but i daresay that i would raise a girl differently than a boy....I do think it important for a man to bring experience to the marriage bed although that does NOT mean I am encouraging sexual abandon....a girl needs to follow, not lead, in sexual relations (typically). And with caring experience, a man can make the marriage night that much more special for a virgin bride than one without a clue. All that aside, since its a personal thang, what I want my boys to learn is respect for women, safe sex and stay away from money-grabber, selfish bithcy types.
