Re: would abortion be allowed if....
here is a question, you may find an answer to the original question as you search for the answer to this question/
at what gestational term when a child is lost due to miscarriage or premature birth is a namaz e janaza needed, and why. why is it not needed prior to that time.
now go read up.
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
oh yeah..and no one would be questioning if abortion was legal if the dang mullahs were gettin raped and getting pregnant :)
Our scholars seem to be behind in many things because it does nt impact them or society at large thus why take a stance. assisted reproduction, organ donation, etc etc all have been topic ignored for a long time by 'scholars' and even now there are conflicting statements.
When in doubt, go with logic. Islam as a religion is not meant to make your life difficult.
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Even if it is murder, what is it to you? Its her sin, she'll deal with it in this life and the afterlife; it really is none of your business. God forbid you never hae to deal wiht it in your personal life.
I've come across so many women lately, friends n family, who have had children. Seeing them plan everything around when their infant sleeps and eats, watchign their bodies go through so many changes, thier bodies n lives being forever chnaged by such a tiny lil thing, I have a deeper appreciation for mothers now. To go through the pains of childbirth, discomfort of pregnancy is an honorable thing; to be doing it against your will is another. I find it appalling that someone should be forced into having children due to laws that are aiming to eradicate Plan B/Emergency contraception (in the US); due to culture that dictates having children is her only duty in a marriage..
While I and many here would vehemently disagree with the misuse of sexuality, abortion as birth control, etc, you have to hand it to ideology (not the acutal pracitce of it) that promotes a womans right to do what she pleases with her body.
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
I've come across so many women lately, friends n family, who have had children. Seeing them plan everything around when their infant sleeps and eats, watchign their bodies go through so many changes, thier bodies n lives being forever chnaged by such a tiny lil thing, I have a deeper appreciation for mothers now. To go through the pains of childbirth, discomfort of pregnancy is an honorable thing; to be doing it against your will is another. I find it appalling that someone should be forced into having children due to laws that are aiming to eradicate Plan B/Emergency contraception (in the US); due to culture that dictates having children is her only duty in a marriage..
While I and many here would vehemently disagree with the misuse of sexuality, abortion as birth control, etc, you have to hand it to ideology (not the acutal pracitce of it) that promotes a womans right to do what she pleases with her body.
Please don't think I am not aware of your thinking Sara.
What I said is that, a fetus is a potential live creature.
Heart beat is the beginning of the life and its really murder if fetus is destroyed for any reason like having resemblance of the criminal.
Being a child, has no fault whatsoever.
Many a times, the rapist belongs to the woman's class and making sure that if he repents and agrees to take the reponsibility of the child and the woman is a good thing.
He must stay loyal and many things can be done to reassure it. State may appoint regular meetings afterward to assure if he is indeed providng support to the family. And woman is given choice to give her version as well. This way a child gets the father and a woman gets a husband of her choice--by free will.
Re: would abortion be allowed if…
1- The theory that life begins at heartbeat is not universally subscribed to by all scholars and schools of thought.
#2- Y’all just plain miss the point dunn ya. its not about aborting because the child may look like the rapist, or that its some whim. Its not one ‘potential’ life we are talking about, but two lives. The emotional and mental trauma of carrying the result of a rape to full term may be way too much for the mental wellbeing of someone. I would think that saving that life and preventing it from facing unwarranted pain would not be an issue.
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Hummmmm....if its not the heart beat then what it is?
What and who gives first beat to the heart?
Please learn biology/medical science, heart beat is first sign of life by ultrasound otherwise the fetus is either dead or just floating in the uterus till its natural abortion.
Emotional trauma is created by social expectation and being humiliated by the rapist...Even then the child or unborn child has nothing to do with that. A fetus is a live tissue and making it somehow dead is murder.
Don' t go by silly arguments by so called pro-choice or pro-life people dear. They will have these differences to show you that these people are some way against each other!
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Easy to say abortion is ethical, but would any of you have liked it if your mothers had refuse to have you? Would you have liked to DIE unborn? Rape is not baby's fault, therefore punishment should not be for baby. Its common sense, no fatwas or wannabe "muslim websites" required.
Re: would abortion be allowed if…
I am very well aware of biology/medical science as well as religious views on when most experts think and the differing schools of thought on it. I agree after a certain gestational period it is wrong, but prior to that there is no issue especially in such circumstances. This is a viewpoint supported by majority of scholars. Now whether its 40 days or 90 days or whatever, fact remains tat during this period abortion is permitted except by the most rabid banner waving book banging types.
Emotional trauma is not created by social expectation or humiliation, it may be further compounded by it but is not created. I would suggest you go read up a little psychology especially post traumatic stress.
Chanda, I am not going by silly arguments of anyone, including yourself. dont worry your pretty little head with that. shabaash
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Our scholars seem to be behind in many things because it does nt impact them or society at large thus why take a stance. assisted reproduction, organ donation, etc etc all have been topic ignored for a long time by 'scholars' and even now there are conflicting statements.
When in doubt, go with logic. Islam as a religion is not meant to make your life difficult.
hats off to you. very well said. our scholars will not take a stand until it disturbs their own Halwa.
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
If Allah didn't want that child to come in this earth- That woman would not have gotten pregnant. But she did -now she wants to accept it or consider that child being a punishment on her its her small brain then..
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Very Very true!! Hats up to you!!!! It's a bad thing in our "desi" society that we worry more about what happened to the woman rather than who was the perpetrator. I'm not an Islamic scholar but so far, the response hasn't been clear yes or No....
Umer
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
very very very ... did i say VERY flawed logic!
Here is a simple thing that I beleive (Islam is a religion of logic - the best option outside of Islam, is true inside it as well).
btw, its the mother's choice. If (God Forbids) it happens, stop freakin judging the girl and let her choose whatever she wants!
FYI: Rape is probably the worst thing that can be a done to a girl. The phsyical aspect is a v.small as compared to emotional and psychoclogical part of the torture girls goes through rest of her life. bahh ... don't wanna xplain anymoo...
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
i work with a lot of rape victims, and i once met a girl who was rapped and concieved as a result......she was catholic and didn't want to have an abortion, at the end she decided to have the child, and put her up for adoption
I think that although we can sit here and argue about what the girl should or shouldn't do islamically abortion is not allowed, however our faith has been degerated so much that we commit a million sins everyday.....
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
duplicate
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Obviously it's none of anyone's business except the mother's and God's.
However we are discussing Islam law concerning this issue.
If a mother wants to kill the fetus, of course she can.
If she doesn't want to pray that's fine too, if she wants to kill people, commit adultery and so on... it's completely her choice and none of my business.
I am just stating that it is a sin to commit abortion.
WaSalaam
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
^I agree totally
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
First of all, Sadiyah, thank you very much for your research and logical answers, as usual. May Allah (SWT) reward you abundantly!
If one reads through these posts, men's response (majority, not all) can be clearly seen as towards keeping the baby. God forbid, to the point of marrying the Rapist?? This is a Christian point of view if I'm not mistaken. If anyone of you try to be in her shoes (of the victim of rape), which you cannot, try to feel as she wud have felt, or gone through. This is like victimizing her again, in fact for the rest of her life, offering to marry him?
It's so easy to say murder is a murder. You have not gone through that henious crime against you (God forbid) and probably cannot understand the misery of living with that horrible memory, and then on top of it, giving birth to his child? You have any idea what that woman would go through eash day and each night? Have you met such victims? Ask them if they are able to live a healthy life afterwards, not to mention a married life. Please try to understand. It is very very painful and difficult. I don't know what the ruling is exactly in this scenario and Allah knows the best. But Islam does not appreciate a child born out of wedlock (rape would be a little different case though) but I heard from a scholar that a child born out of wedlock cannot be offered Imamat, he cannot be an Imam or lead the prayer, even though it was not his fault but the fact is that he was born out of wedlock and we should have sympathy towards him.
Please stop accusing each other for having a particular point of view. From a woman's perspective, that too a victim's, no woman would prefer to have that baby. Being a Psychologist and having counselled such victims, I can say a lot on behalf of victims here, but I would restrain. The issue about if Allah wanted that child to be born....... well Allah has also said in Quran in many places that your wrongs are brought upon you by your ownselves! I am not saying that it was her fault but what I am trying to say is that we cannot just attribute the wrongs to God. And Allah knows the best. May Allah protect us all, Ameen!
Please know that I did not mean to ridicule anyone's opinion.
Re: would abortion be allowed if…
:k:
Im glad im not hte only one who finds the idea of MARRYING THE RAPIST 
appalling to say the least. I agree wiht you totally.
Deedee, plz tell, where did you get this concept that a woman should marry her rapist ?? I"ve never heard of a more jahil and ignorant thing. Hypothetically speaking, if a man killed your sister, would you insist that she marry? Would you even introduce it as an option?? If someone broke into your home and robbed you, would you accept them as a paying guest? Rape is a killing of ones soul.
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Please stop accusing each other for having a particular point of view. From a woman's perspective, that too a victim's, no woman would prefer to have that baby. Being a Psychologist and having counselled such victims, I can say a lot on behalf of victims here, but I would restrain. The issue about if Allah wanted that child to be born....... well Allah has also said in Quran in many places that your wrongs are brought upon you by your ownselves! I am not saying that it was her fault but what I am trying to say is that we cannot just attribute the wrongs to God. And Allah knows the best. May Allah protect us all, Ameen!
Please know that I did not mean to ridicule anyone's opinion.
Salaam Alaykum
I understand what you are trying to say.
I, thankfully, have not had such a traumatic experience, but the fact is that killing the baby after implantion in the uterus **is **murder. It may cause the woman a lot of pain, trauma and suffering, for which the man will be accountable on the day of judgement. But with the help of Allah SWT she can get through it.
If someone doesn't understand the emotional part of it, that doesn't make a difference to the Islam ruling - unless the emotional part threatens the woman's life (which does happen)
I am not 100% certain on this, but I am quite sure that the baby can be given up for adoption if the mother finds it too difficult to live with a baby that was the result of rape.
WaSalaam
Re: would abortion be allowed if....
Okay, does the concept that a woman should/can marry her rapist even exist in Islam? I remember reading this in the Old Testament.. but does it exist in Islam? Any answers wud be apprciated :)