Re: How do you feel when you dont agree with bits of islam?
^ I agree with you again! You keep Picking things that I and you both essentially agree on.:p I cant argue with anything you said except that you are assuming I am Christian and I am not. Lol! I am not affiliated with any religion whatsoever. To me they are the same! Christianity has its shortcomings and most christians today understand and that's why we see a much less violent Christian nation. They too had to make amendments. I am just saying Muslims are too stubborn or in denial to see the problems with their religion. They keep saying Islam gives more Rights to women than any other religion. That could have been true at one point in history. Today, Most societies give women more rights than islam or any other religion does. And the rights they are
Bragging about give men full control of women. Women Have nothing to gain from these rights. They are treated like a really well kept maid. WTF? What woman doesn't want to have control
of her life. She has no right to divorce, she can't go anywhere without her husband's permission. She has to obey him in everything Pretty much. Haqmeher ka achar dalna hai usnay in
sab ke baad? The rights she does have don't do any good for her in today's world. I hope you see what I mean
I see what you mean, but my point is that women are abused because the culture is backwards, and the population is uneducated. The nature of the man will decide how he treats his wife, regardless of where he is. Religion can be twisted by anyone to try to justify their actions.
I'm not defending any religion, just arguing that religion isn't the cause of all "evil" actions committed in Islamic countries.
By the way, sorry if it seemed that I was calling you Christian, I assumed that you were atheist or agnostic.
for those of you who complain about how Islam treats women unfairly and blah blah, check out Dr. Jamal Badawi's lecture about Gender Equality and Equity in Islam.
Ultimately, all our actions, duties and responsibilities, for both men and women, and no matter how superiour/inferior one might feel about them, they all will have the same Reward in the end. And what we recieve at the End of it all, is our ultimate desire.
there is wisdom in everything that Allah SWT has ordained for us, and you just have to accept it.
Unfortunately, if someone is not religious or not muslim, you will not convince them with this argument. I myself am not that religious, but I think we should reason with people who criticize Islam to show them that the seemingly atrocious actions committed in the name of Islam are because of other factors.
That is a fundamental flaw in thinking about the west. You're assuming every western woman wants to marry the man/men she dates. That is simply not true. While we desis look at every relationship as a stepping stone to marriage, it is not the case in the west.
Quite the opposite, I was arguing that many (although not all) western women have casual sex with men they have no intention of even dating, and then are surprised that their reputations precedes them, and they can't find a husband. The conclusion from this is that western women are also "used", but in a more subtle way. This is not a conclusion put forth by me but something I have read from sociologists, but I agree with it.
I'm not a Muslim - I'm a Hindu living in the US.
I have seen many Americans in stable, happy relationships. While I don't claim everyone is faithful to their spouse, infidelity is definitely not as rampant as you think.
Fair enough, but my point was not about fidelity but rather, about the effect of casual sex on the family dynamic. Casual relationships not only lead to unwanted pregnancy, but can have an effect on how a person view intimacy and whether they will stay in their marriages. I could be wrong about this, but I saw a study somewhere that concluded that women who have lived with more than one man have something like a 60% higher chance of divorce. The study concluded that women who have premarital sex, and cohabitation, with the man they will eventually marry have no higher chance of divorce.
Now we can possibly conclude that people who are more likely to divorce have more partners prior to marriage, but I think there is something to be said about how casually people disregard sex. And casual sex is more damaging to women than men. So again, women are in a way, "used". Men sleep with easy women, and then marry more faithful ones.
If religion was the cure for over indulgence and lack of control, we wouldn't have religious zealots blowing themselves and others to pieces. The thing with religion is that it can be interpreted to suit your convenience.
You yourself say the uneducated are the reason for more children born out of wedlock, abortions etc - how can religion help here? seems to me that what's needed is awareness and education.
I agree with education. But religion also keeps many people from committing sins because they are scared into being pious. People on these forums have mentioned many times that it is harder to be pious in the west because society is more accommodating. In Pakistan, society is conservative, so many people do not act in ways considered to be sinful because they simply do not have the opportunity to; but when they emigrate to a western country, they go "nuts", partying and having sex. Thus, society was keeping them in control.
In the same manner, I think religion acts as a counterpoint to "anything goes". Does this justify all the twisted things people do in the name of it? Perhaps not, but it's a point to consider.
In general, western society relies on adults to think for themselves. There is the law to protect against the criminal activities you mention, but in general the government does not assume the role of a nanny. A nanny government is dangerously close to a dictatorship, which goes against the democratic principles of the west.
Except the right wing Christians want exactly that. They wanted to stop the ground zero mosque from being built even though, in a secular country, there should be no problem with that. Even if Islam becomes the dominant religion in America, it makes no difference because Sharia cannot supersede the American constitution (in principle). Switzerland has outlawed any new Minarets (essentially mosques).
Basically, I agree that the government cannot regulate morality, thus I ask you again, what counteracts the "I can do anything" attitude that results in self harm? Ideally, it would be common sense, but in reality, for a lot of uneducated people, it's being scared into acting properly.
I have no answers, just that the issue of religion is more complicated than "just get rid of it". A person is smart, people are dumb (shout out to Men In Black lol).
I personally believe a benevolent dictator is the best form of government but this is essentially an oxymoron.
I agree! I think what's needed is an in-between path, something that takes the best out of the east and the west.
Totally agree with this.
