Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine
^ talk about stating the obvious, sherlock.
'tis the intent that is fishy. For some ladies, the burqa is part of thier natural identity...forcing them to take it off would be akin to stripping them off this identity. Forget thier men folks, ask them how they feel. Its called oppression.
Simliar vein; force a female to go out all day without her makeup or handbag. Fine them if they do, then ask them how they feel, and i think you'll get the picture.
In the west no woman or man can be forced to do anything by their family members.
Here in the UK anyone who is forced to do anything by anyone can contact the authorities. e.g. many ignorant Paki parents try and force their children into arranged marriages (not because of religion but because of their backward village culture) but a lot of those children go to the authorities and they are given security and shelter till they can fend for themselves because this is a welfare state..
Whether burka is or is not a part of Islam is irrelevant. It’s the Europeans hypocrisy which is the issue, on one hand they claim to have monopoly over freedom of expression so that they can insult our Prophet and then they deny that right to others who simply want to practice their religion and don’t want to hurt anyone with a piece of silk or a tower.
That’s fine but then they shouldn’t claim superiority when it comes to freedom of expression/religion and they shouldn’t point fingers at Muslim nations.
Muslims are intolerant but these guys are not??
It’s their hypocrisy and hollowness which pisses people off.
Why so much insecurity in their own culture that a piece of cloth threatens it?
^^ or some of them they are forced to wear by their oppressive husbands and fathers
and some of them arent...so whats you're point?
There is no such thing, as forced, as those folks have legal recourse in the west. In fact it is more challenging to wear the burka in the west than anywhere else...where you're most likely discriminated against at work, school, in the streets, in shops, etc. so anyone who does decide to go for it despite all the hostilities, is a pretty strong person IMO..and ought to be applauded.
The other point you are making, is that inorder to prevent the menfolks from 'oppressing women', the government should take over and do it instead. Is that the logic you are using?
Please found me a single verse/word from Quran which bound women to wear Burkha.
FYI: the word use in Quran is "khimar" .. not even Hijab or close to it.. Now i will let you to found me the real classic arabic meaning of Khimar.
If your family wear Burkha in the past or future, they are doing wrong - simple is that - no offense !
Do you understand classical Arabic?
Where in the Quran does it say don't cover your face?
The word Hijab lused in the Quran iterally means covering, it can refer to a scarf or a veil...
...The Quran (Recitation) is not the only source of Islam, there's also the Sunnah (Tradition).
Khair whether burka is or is not a part of your version of Islam is a completely different topic for the religion forum..
...Here we're discussing Europe's false claims of tolerance and hypocritical freedoms of expression...
..Muslim woman can't swim in a burqini, a Muslim girl wearing a piece of silk on her head is offensive to European sensibilities, western culture is danger from a Mosque tower, forcibly "liberate" Muslim women by stripping them of their veils...
And they have the cheek to get on their high horses and point fingers at Muslim countries for being intolerant even though Muslim countries never make false claims about freedoms/liberties/secularism etc.
It’s their country, their law,.. anyway.. Burkha is the sign of oppression everywhere in the world. Even though most of the ladies i see at the Pakistani’s airport taking off their burkha for (Photo) .. they are ugly.. so i didn’t see the point in wearing … until you are extraordinary hot .. and guys will fall over…
Go back 2 years and see what the Ninja turtles of Lal Mosque did on the name of Islam .. i mean nearly all of them were even wearing gloves on top of Burkha ? ??? why not use oxygen masks too ?
Please tell me where in the Quran it states to cover your face?
It says to cover your head with a hijab.
Allah az'zawajal says to the holy Prophet Sallalahu alaihi wassalam in the Holy Quran translation from kanzul imaan;
O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outer garments (jilbabs) close around them; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And Allah is ever Forgiving, Gentle.
[Sura Al Ahzab, Verse 59]
Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine
I believe this to be a over reaction. But France does have the concept of laciety, which means strick seperation of church and state.
The problem with West Europe is in the 60s and 70s they invited guest workers from their former colonies to do there dirty work. So obviously you didn't get middle class Francophone people from algiers or Casablance, but farmers from the Kabyle or North Morroco. Did nothing to integrate them, and let them fester in government housing schemes, with very poor schooling. In the 80s they let the Saudis and Kuwaitis, in return for lucrative contracts, to spread Salafist ideology.
Now its come back to haunt them, but instead of takling the problem in a creative way, they seem to be passing ever more coersive laws, with out instituting affirmative action schemes to get the North Africans into the mainstream.
The Dutch and Scandionavians are even worse. All these Europeans could learn a lesson or two from the Americans.
Here in the UK anyone who is forced to do anything by anyone can contact the authorities. e.g. many ignorant Paki parents try and force their children into arranged marriages (not because of religion but because of their backward village culture) but a lot of those children go to the authorities and they are given security and shelter till they can fend for themselves because this is a welfare state..
Not sure where in the UK you live, but most British Pakistanis live in neighbourhoods full of there family or clan. I know for a fact a lot of girls wear the Hijab just so that they are a not a victim of gossip. In Pathan communities, many girls ARE forced to wear the Burqa. Most young Brit Pakistani can bearly string a sentence in English, let alone complain directly to the authorities.
But I still think this law is stupid, and any social change has to come from with in the communities.
Guys this is not the post to debate whether the veil is a part of Islam or not. That is not the point of this thread...
...Most Muslim women whether in France or in Pakistan do not evem wear the veil regardless of whether they consider it a part of Islam or not... but those that want to wear it whould be afforded that right.
My point is that banning the veil (or the Sikh turban or the Mangalsutar/Sindhoor) is infringing on peoples freedoms and Europe who is quick to point fingers at Islamic socities for being intolerant is doing exactly that by banning pieces of silk and towers.
Fascists are fascists regardless of whether they are extremist-Muslim or extremist-Secularist.
On one hand Europe claims it is freedom of expression to insult the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) and thereby hurt the feelings of 1/4 of the worlds population but they don't extend the same courtesy of freedom of expression to other cultures to even dress a certain way even though that does not hurt anyones sentiments nor does it infringe on anyones rights.
I've not only got issues with Europe, I also have issues with the handful of nutters amongst our Muslim community such as Islam4UK who want to force their way on others...
I have more of a problem with Europes double standards and hypocrisy than with the actual veil ban.
Instead of trying de-escalate matters Europe is aggravating the problem of extremism.
Assimilation is inevitable but you can't force it. force will only have a counter-productive effect.
Europe should learn from Britain, recently in Britain some Muslim anti-war protestors were arrested because the stupid idiots said derogratory things about British soldiers (I'm anti-war too but what those protestors were saying was simply idiotic) but Britain is not a hypocrite because it puts limits on everyones freedoms of expression and even MP's have been advised to avoid terms like "Islamic terrorism" and "Muslim terrorist" so as not to offend mainstream Muslims...
...Europeans on the other hand have a different set of rules for themselves and different for others.
and then they deny that right to others who simply want to practice their religion and don’t want to hurt anyone with a piece of silk or a tower.
