What’s this I hear - Powell says if the new Iraqi govt. (post 30.6) asks us to leave - we will!!! Hey what gives? What about the 14 military bases being built? And the 3000 staff embassy? And depart without liberating the Iraqis? I don’t get it. Of course the other main coalition of the shilling partners (GB, J and I) said they too would depart.
Provide a link please otherwise this thread will be removed.
What he really meant was that the American asses are being whipped so badly that they will ask the puppet council to request a US invaders withdrawal. That will give them the chance to run and save face.
LOL. Powell needs to compare notes with Rumsfeld first before making such statements. Powell doesnt run the military machine. He is just a diplomat :>
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*Originally posted by mawarid: *
What he really meant was that the American asses are being whipped so badly that they will ask the puppet council to request a US invaders withdrawal. That will give them the chance to run and save face.
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Well it's coming close to 900 US/"coalition" soldiers killed in Iraq now, and man, many thousands injured. So of course they want out of there asap, under any pretence...they call it "peace with honour". Oops that was Vietnam. :)
I doubt they will leave, they just need a lifeline to get out of there with whatever little dignity they have left, and if the need ever arises. Vietnam still haunts thems you see.
furthermore, this allows them to divert some of the anger from themselves onto the iraqi rulers who request their presence. this way they're only responding to a request for help, instead of imposing occupation.
i dont think one should reach much into it as far as actual withdrawal is concerned. merely a PR gimmick.
This is called plan I face saver....... If they can handle the heat of chappal they will order the hand picked stooges to ask them to stay. If the chappal is too heavy they will order the stooges to "REQUEST" (yes request..LOL ) the "LIBERATORS" to leave.... its simple logic.. the occupiers want a face saver and a fall guy..... Dang, the lessons of the past are comming in handy.
Add 5 more terrorist to the list…
3 U.S. troops, 4 Iraqis killed by insurgents
Two more troops die in non-hostile incidents
Re: Withdraw???
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Originally posted by Awam ki Awaz: *
What's this I hear - Powell says if the **new Iraqi govt.* (post 30.6) asks us to leave - we will!!! Hey what gives? What about the 14 military bases being built? And the 3000 staff embassy? And depart without liberating the Iraqis? I don't get it. Of course the other main coalition of the shilling partners (GB, J and I) said they too would depart.
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The word "govt." in that line should be in quotation marks. This is not an actual "government" in the sense of a democratic system of governance. When you have manually appointed (not elected) each individual into a Council, then it is nothing more than literally a rubber-stamped group of individuals who have decided to give themselves the most power in the country. For this very reason alone, i highly doubt they are going to ask the Occupying Powers to leave. They know they are dependent upon the OPs for infrastructural funds, "reconstruction" of the country, the many lucrative 'reconstruction' contracts negotiated by American companies - no way on earth they will ask the OPs to leave. If anything, they will ask them to stay further for "security" purposes. The benevolent OPs will be invited and asked to stay in order to (i can almost quote what the headlines will say) ensure a lasting peace and stability in Iraq and for the prospect of a democratic future for the people of Iraq. Some sort of Orwellian double-speak like that.
^ Inshallah we all hope that is true. Becasue the dumbass iraqis sure can't even find themselves out of a paper bag. Plus who would provide the infrastructural support and finds for rebuilding? The great islamic armies?
They are the only dumbarses around here, not the great Occupying Powers who love to play out their sexual porn fantasies on vulnerable human beings (prisoners). The dumbarses can receive infrastructural support from the UN… oh my God, the UN - yes, i said the U word. 
Is that a crime around here ?
^ Iraq was there before America and will be there again after they leave. So far all that America has bought to Iraq is death, destruction and misery. And yes I forgot the most important thing they bought to Iraq "shock and awe". Poor, dumbass Iraqis, they should be grateful to the Americans for doing so much for them in such short a period. Saddam is probably in "shock and awe" at the American record at Al Ghuraib prison.
hehe, well I hope its not the great satan cause they seem to have other ideas on what rebuilding means.
tsk tsk
I think bringing up the posibility of withdrawing is a great idea. It focuses the Iraqis on far greater consequences than one runaway cleric.
If the US were to leave today, the Kurds would be in great shape. The Peshmerga have provided most of the security up north. The unresolved conflicts with the Arab population (beneficiaries of Saddams ethnic cleansing) might well explode, but the Kurds are well organized, and would probably prevail. Obviously thier first move might be to declare themselves a separate state, complete with half the oil. This would shock Iran, Turkey and Syria, but the US might just go ahead and recognize them anyway. Screw the rest, Kurdistan can be our oasis of democracy!.
The Shia would have running battles for power, with clerics and Ayatollahs operating more like war lords. (THAT will be good for Islam).
The Sunni will feel surrounded from both sides, and will probably get a lot of support from Syria. They will fight and fight against both the Kurds and the Shia. As we well know, most of the professional soldiers were the Sunnis, and they will inflict damage with the help of their Al-Qaedda friends.
Pretty fun huh?
So if you are an Iraqi, you are faced with a number of bad choices. A decade or two of running battles, ala Afghanistan post soviets. Or an occupation with reconstruction and the creation of democratic institutions.
It is almost laughable to see people actually thinking and believing that democracy will sprout with a little water. East Timor, one of the smallest countries inthe world took years. The people in the Balkans just don't want to stop fighting, because they cannot forget the past and they hate each other. So why are we suprised that giving birth to something better will take time and blood?
I would be happy to withdraw. We could recognize the Kurds and have virtually everything we need from this endeavor, and save a 100Billion to boot. I think the real recipient of the the withdrawl comment is Sistani. He realizes that he will be locked in a box with Sadr, and that his own militia will be doing the work that the US troops are doing if the US leaves. The threat of leaving is a pointed attempt to make Sistani get off the fence....
Obviously the americans are not going to leave unless in body bags that is clear.
But the statement “they will leave if the iraqi governemnt askes them to” is a clue in itself.
Who rubberstamps everything and runs Iraq yep the new Saddam, PAul Bremner!
So will a puppet of america say to america leave 
^OG good analysis. How true. See how much stability, prosperity and unity America's illegal war has brought to the people of Iraq. How US has changed the scenario since the invasion is nicely summed up in your post. May you bring more liberation to people around the globe. The death and destruction in Afghanistan and Iraq stand like a beacon in a stormy and dark night. Keep up the good work.
Great analysis, OG. If people think there are dark and stormy nights and death and destruction now, let's wait and see what happens when the US pulls out.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
The Shia would have running battles for power, with clerics and Ayatollahs operating more like war lords. (THAT will be good for Islam).
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yeah here we have a resident expert on whats good for Islam.
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The Sunni will feel surrounded from both sides, and will probably get a lot of support from Syria. They will fight and fight against both the Kurds and the Shia. As we well know, most of the professional soldiers were the Sunnis, and they will inflict damage with the help of their Al-Qaedda friends.
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you may have had a point if syria was an arch-enemy of iran. But considering both countries are on best terms with each other and practically close buddies, the idea that syria will do anything as such is hoping for little too much. so flop, there goes your whole thoery.
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Pretty fun huh?
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yeah it was funny while it lasted.
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I think the real recipient of the the withdrawl comment is Sistani. He realizes that he will be locked in a box with Sadr, and that his own militia will be doing the work that the US troops are doing if the US leaves. The threat of leaving is a pointed attempt to make Sistani get off the fence....
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Although, Al-Sadr and Seyed Sistani dont see eye to eye, sadr is still under the marjae (mujtahid) system. He even stated to the effect that if his marjae (in iran) tells him to dismantle his militia, he will do so. Considereing Iran thinks highly of Seyed Sistani (my marjae), the chances that iran will let this escalate the differences to that level is not very high.
hope that settles everything? good.