There is a debate whether muslims should wish greetings for non-muslim occassions, like Christmas etc. There is an opinion, followed extensively that this is forbidden. The basis for this opinion is taken from a hadeeth which says:
Additional guidance is taken from the following verses in the Quran:
Now the two main questions, is, whether wishing someone “have a great christmas”, akin to accepting christian beliefs. Some scholars suggest it is. Some suggest it is not, and it is merely a greeting.
There seems no direct hadeeth or verse in the quran which prohibits muslims from wishing non-muslims. For some scholars, this is merely a matter of interpretation, and wishing implies you aceept the rituals of kufr and is therefore haraam.
These scholars suggest that wishing greetings to non-muslims is like innovating into Islam. Their definition of “innovation” leaves a lot to be desired. As discussed in www.understanding-islam.com website innovation is haraam only if it is into the body of the religion.
Hence newer customs and traditions which have no relation to religion can not be termed bid’ah or haraam. Using the internet, wearing jeans and joggers, jogging on the streets, are non-religious acts and need not be put to the test of bid’ah and what not. These activities by themselves do not result in a naiki or gunnah.
Preceding this, this website says
Similarly, wishing someone “Happy New Year”. Is January 1 a religious occassion. Muslims all over the world, use the gregarian calendar for 99% of their activities. And only stand on the roof top for sighting the moon for ramadan and shawal. So, its basically an en vogue and defacto standard, even for muslims.
Does using this calendar constitute haraam and bid’ah?
Therefore, wishing someone “Happy New Year”, is it a religious greeting or a matter-of-fact greeting which does not imply that we agree to christianity, but rather only implies that a new year has started?
Pristine, I don’t mean to sound discourteous, but a greeting as harmless as wishing someone a Happy New Year or Merry Christmas, does someone need to go as far as consulting a Molvee? I mean really. Do we consult a Molvee when we migrate to Western Countries for whatever reasons? What if the Molvee says, it is Gunnah to do so. What will we do.
In my opinion, matters such as these should not make one run to Holy Books as we are living in ever evolving times. Even the celebration of Christmas started long after Jesus died (in fact no mention of it in ancient or modern Roman History where Christianity flourished) and the Tree, for example, is only a couple of hundred year old tradition. Santa even more recent. Who know what tomorrow may bring, chicks coming down the chimney may be.
Anyhow, speaking ill of others’ traditions or festivals in not what Islam is all about. It is inclusive and not exclusive. Saying Kalma or praying alone does not make one Muslim.
There is a fatwah on this issue which states that participating in non-Muslim functions is not allowed.
NYA has given evidences which are totally irrelevant. Islam is a deen. We have to live our lives the way we are supposed to not the way the world lives it.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
There is a fatwah on this issue which states that participating in non-Muslim functions is not allowed. <<<
Factfinder, I don’t dispute the Fatwa, but what would you do if there is a Fatwa to counter that Fatwa? Which one will you take? You know how many dimes a dozens Fatwas come? Can you show a passage in the Quran where it says that not to wish anyone Merry Christmas or Happy New Year?
And more importantly, if there are two contradictary fatwas, u have a right to accept which one you feel is accurate. Others have the same right.
And therefore, lets not start calling others as heretics, committing haraam and bid'ah and non-muslims. If there is a difference of opinion, just state your reasons and let the others make up their mind, instead of pronouncing "you shall do it and you shall not do it, otherwise you are committing haraam". Whatever.
[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
just state your reasons and let the others make up their mind, instead of pronouncing "you shall do it and you shall not do it, otherwise you are committing haraam". Whatever.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: Salaams to all
Dear Brothers and sisters,
Actually this is simple to understand when you consider the fact that aiding and abetting a crime or mistake amounts to an error.
Thus when we knowingly or blindly enjoin something that is false we are actually promoting falsehood.
Allah (swt) enjoined for mankind the following:
58: 14 Turnest thou not thy attention to those who turn (in friendship) to such as have the Wrath of Allah upon them? ** They are neither of you nor of them and they swear to falsehood knowingly **
3: 71 Ye People of the Book! ** Why do ye clothe truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while ye have knowledge? **
2: 42 ** And cover not Truth with falsehood nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is). **
Ibrahim says; Thus it is a fundamental duty for Muslims to correct the errors of those who are committing them.
In the case of greeting others Merry Christmas or happy new year, which are events based on falsehood., since Christ was not born on such a date or time and the hijri month for Muslims does not end in December.
If Muslims willfully do not acknowledge the fact that in Islam Muharram is the beginning of their calendar , than who are supposed to enjoin it? The very fact that today’s Muslims will not even know when in hijri they were born or what their calendar months are known as amounts to discarding Islam and establishing errors.
Muslims must seriously consider:-
9: 36 ** The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year) so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred; ** that is the straight usage. ** So wrong not yourselves therein ** and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.
Ibrahim says : when Allah (swt) conveyed four months are sacred from the day he created it, how will any of you be able to observe them, if you chose to abandon your calendar and follow the calendar of the unbelievers?
Thus it is obvious that Muslims should not establish the erroneous calendar of the Christians by greeting them on such occasions , which they have invented for themselves. Remember when you do this you are teaching your children to do it also , thus establishing falsehood and denying truth by your ill conceived actions.
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** To live in the Present is wisdom . To live for the present is folly **
[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**>>>There is a fatwah on this issue which states that participating in non-Muslim functions is not allowed. <<<
Factfinder, I don’t dispute the Fatwa, but what would you do if there is a Fatwa to counter that Fatwa? Which one will you take? You know how many dimes a dozens Fatwas come? Can you show a passage in the Quran where it says that not to wish anyone Merry Christmas or Happy New Year?**
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do u follow wots written in quran ...lol
just cruious bcz instead of questioning wots in it or not why not just follow wot u know for sure in it !!!
Ibrahim, I am unable to follow through with your argument. It does not tie-in from point A to point B.
The crux of your argument is that muslims should ditch the gregarian calendar and adopt the hijri calendar. THe aim is noble but that is something which is not happening, so can we concentrate on the present, instead of spending rhetorical arguments on something which is not used?
The way I look at it, January to December are just months, used universally for the sake of consistency. Christ's birth is just another day in this calendar, and using the calendar does not mean we are accepting chritisan fables and innovations. It is something which is there, just as the computer you are using right now, to read this post has english characters. The post you will submit in response will have a January date on top. This does not make you a christian and using english does not make you an infidel. Using these tools (calendar and language are tools used for reference and communication, respectively) you are not spreading falsehood.
So, why do we insist on making a huge mountain out of small, unrelated issues? Out of 1 billion muslims in the world, how many use hijri calendar as their defacto, standard calendar? Do you use it for your communication?
Lets stop preaching what we don't practice ourselves. Lets stop representing Islam as a harsh, unfriendly, uncompromising faith where one wrong step will throw you in an abyss of darkness and falsehood.
Just as you have tried to formulate a case for your point of view, 100s of scholars can make a case proving exactly the opposite. Doesn't mean you are wrong, it simply means, any of us can be wrong. Lets not be rigid in our opinions and be open to corrections and be a bit more tolerant to differing points of view.
Belief cannot be thrust down a person's throat. Whoever accepts, benefits; and he who keeps asking questions is the loser.
I am very concerned by a person saying what NYA has said. It shows total disrespect for the Ulema. If there are people issuing fatwas without solid evidence, theya re responsible for their actions. We cannot pass judgement and then discredit all fatwas. I would not like to be in NYA's shoes on the Day of Judgement when this is brought up.
As regards Brother Ibrahim's post, he has, as usual supported every assertion with an ayah from the Qur'an. What he has stated is that wishing someone with a false ceremony is contributing to the falsehood. He has also asserted that we have forgotten our own identity and are so engrossed in western identities that we do not know our own calender, etc.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
its not allowed in Islam so why do it just to please the non-muslims....
Umar bin Khattab was once having lunch with an ambassador from Rome and while eating the food fell from his hand and on to the mat and as Umar had learnt from the Sunnah he picked up the food and ate it....
one of the companions saw this and said to the khalifah "u shud have avoided such an act cuz we had a guest with us and he may have not liked this"....
Umar was enraged with this and said "shud i leave a Sunnah of the Prophet for anyone?"....
maybe u dont get the point but what i am trying to say is that we shud worry about things that please Allah and not about things that help us create cordial relations with humans who cannot benefit us in any way (if Allah does not wish to do so)....
Dear Pristine, sometimes I do wonder whether I speak mystic language or sound as if, I have just finished grade two since my English is not all that good.
Anyway let me try and recap what I said
Allah (swt) warned Muslims not to promote falsehood knowingly ( kindly read the verses I quoted)
As such if I wished anyone Merry Christmas or a happy new year, I would be promoting falsehood as I know for sure such celebrations are based on false notions.
** That was the gist of my point, it had No fatwa’s attached and was simple and easy to understand, I had hoped ** .
I went on further to establish the fact that as Muslims our new year starts in Muharram and in the Islamic environment we have to observe certain periods of times as sacred and these times are not fixed but runs that course as Allah (swt) willed, just as our eids are not fixed.
Ibrahim says: That was not my main argument but that is what you have focused on while forgetting the most important point that I had conveyed, being ** do not enjoin falsehood knowingly .Do not aid or abet falsehood knowingly ..**
She was very direct and to the point by quoting the following
2Corinthians 6:14-18 which says “…** what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial? (…) get out from them, and separate ourselves…” . This the reason cause thousands and thousands of true Christians DON´T CELEBRATE Christmas.**
so knowledgeable Christians also forbid it , ** so why would knowledgeable Muslims tag along with it? **
With regards to wishing anyone to have a happy new year which is celebrated with a big bang and whole night long parties ( the works) surely as a Muslim you would NEVER encourage it so why wish such things knowingly for others ? (was the point I am trying to convey)
Ibrahim says; you are arguing a point which I had NEVER raised. We are not talking about the months or about Christian origins , ** I am saying Christ was not born on 25th of December so do not acknowledge that he was born on this day. ** Tell them that this day is false and they too know it very well, as such try and put a stop to this folly, ** do not encourage it by joining with the majority who are bent on spreading the falsehood. That is what makes us Muslims. **
Ibrahim says: Pristine, where are you heading? You asked a question, I gave you an answer, and now you insist I had made a mountain out of a small unrelated issue . The fact remains, Muslims have a calendar which has to be observed by Muslims,( at least every eid , everyone seems to be hearing about it) which has been shelved by this generation because we have been subjugated by the Christians.
I did not say; we must use the hijri or else!
The notion that, it is not practicable in our current times is not the issue, what I said was** when a Muslim failed to enjoined it, why would anyone else be enjoining it. ** Now try this argument in an another way.
Lets say Muslims, have the upper hand and they are celebrating Muharram as the new year, do you expect the Jews and the Christian to follow suit? They will surely not . hence each faith promotes its own or else it causes the demise of its own principals. That was the gist of my point concerning the Islamic calendar.
Ibrahim says: I believe you are talking way above what I wrote. My point was simple and was in line with what Allah (swt) enjoined for mankind.
Your point is born out of fear and your fear seems to be that others may feel bad if we do not follow the majority. I can understand your apprehensions but If you just knew what was conveyed by Christ, and how they lived, you would shudder to follow the current Christian practices .
Simply put, Christ claimed he was sent to separate even the members of the same family and whoever failed to separate had failed to follow him.
Clearly , Allah (swt) enjoined thus
2: 208 O ye who believe! enter into Islam whole-heartedly; ** and follow not the footsteps of the Evil One;** for he is to you an avowed enemy.
My point was based on a simple TRUTH, ** enjoin righteousness and forbid evil , ** that is the essence of the message found in all scriptures.
If I agreed with you that it is alright to encourage the spread of this falsehood, since everyone else is doing it, I would end up contradicting the message given in the Qur’an and Bible .
I pray you are not asking me to do that, for the sake of your assertions. But you are most welcome to follow your heart for the sake of pleasing others.
Ibrahim says: how does this apply to what I wrote?
May Allah (swt) Guide us
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** The suffering that comes from an error is created to direct us back to the correct path **
The link provided above cannot be considered a fatwa until certain conditions are met.
One of these conditions is that we need to firstly determine the person that issued the 'fatwa'? Does he base his judgement on the Qur'aan and the Sunnah according to the understanding of the Companions - radhiAllaahum? Who were his teachers? Did they base their judgement on the Qur'aan and the Sunnah according to the understanding of the Companions? Who were his teachers' teachers? ... and so on and so forth until a link of knowledge and understanding is made all the way to the Companions through the generations of learned scholars who base their judgemnets on the correct sources. So until this is verified it cannot even be considered a fatwa, as anyone can introduce an article on a web site and call it a 'religious ruling'.
Another important question is whether his contemporaries who fit the above criteria (of a scholar) recognise him as being a person of knowledge and consider him in a position to issue a fatwa.
I wish to re-iterate a point that i have already made somwhere along the forums, to play a reminder.
Firstly, there is unanimous agreement amongst the Islamic scholars on this issue.
And secondly, the Fatwa of one of the most renound scholars of our time with regards to the topic being discussed.
The following explanation has been translated from the book of the late dearly respected Shaykh Muhammad Saalih ibn Uthaymeen - raheemumAllaah - and i hope it Insha'Allaah proves beneficial for all in understanding this important matter:
[quote]
Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: "Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah."
Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): "If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ."
[al-Zumar 39:7]
*". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ."
[al-Maa’idah 5:3] *
So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.
If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
*"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] *
It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations.
Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: "Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak."
Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion.
Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent.
(Majmoo’ah Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 3/369)
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I would just like to add, that many of us are accustomed to set beliefs and practices which we do not wish to compromise, whether it's becuase we've been raised in a certain mode or whether we've educated ourselves to accept certain principles and reject others. However, there should be nothing to prevent us from investigating a matter our self if we are not fully satisfied with an explanation, especially something as important as religion/Islaam. And this investigation and enquiry should take place in a sincere manner, if one is genuinly searching for the truth.
When we are ill or in need of medical advice we often turn to a doctor or a medical consultant; when we need to determine the foundations or dimensions of a building or a bridge then we find ourselves questioning an architect or civil engineer; when we wish to explore the particle structure of mountains and rocks we confront a geologist.
So when we have a question pertaining to Islaam, we should turn to those more knowledgeable in this field, namely those scholars who take their understanding from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah as understood by the Companions - the best of mankind. And above, i have posted a relevant piece by just one such a scholar ... there are many more in this consensus.
WasSalaam
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
Perhaps the disconnect was that I was concentrating on "New Year Greeting" and by association, the adoption of gregarian calendar by the majority of muslim world nowadays. Whereas you are concentrating on Christmas, and the falsehood surrounding that event.
While I agree with you, on the point of spreading falsehood by celebrating christmas, I am still unable to gather whether any of you are indeed against using gregarian calender or not.
I know of a clear hadith where the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) had instructed muslims to celebrate islamic festivals as opposed to non-islamic (be it christian, pagan, jewish or what not). And since it is a clear hadith, so I have no wish to debate it. The quote above in my first post is from a website, which I read during my research on this issue. That ruling is open for discussion.
Coming back to the use of gregarian calendar and the consequent greeting of New Year, are you equating it with spreading christianity and falsehood? Is there any clear quranic verse or hadith which prohibits using gregarian calendar or to wish non-religious greetings (e.g. wishing someone for the birth of a son or getting a promotion etc)?
Hasnain, while I have nothing against the worthy scholars you quoted, as you very well know, there are many issues where equally knowledgable scholars have come to diametrically opposite conclusion. While you are free to follow the opinion of a scholar whom you consider getting the right answer, if we start disrespecting those whose opinion may not be accurate, you are inviting the same disrespect to your own teacher. And that, I warn you, is a very slippery slope.
It is for this same reason, that many people are skeptical when it comes to inferences and deductions out of simple ayats and ahadith. These inferences are determined by human beings, scholars they may be, and can be wrong. On the other hand, a clear command in quran or a strong hadith is something where relatively few people have a problem with.
[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
Ibrahim, There are two issues here. Perhaps the disconnect was that I was concentrating on “New Year Greeting” and by association, the adoption of gregarian calendar by the majority of muslim world nowadays. Whereas you are concentrating on Christmas, and the falsehood surrounding that event. **
Ibrahim says: Actually they are both, “false ceremonies” where people are led to do things which they will not otherwise do and founded on false foundations. More a money making operation.
For instance, huge amount of fire crackers are used in a new years celebrations, basically to frighten away evil in their understanding, as the church/priests had sanctioned it. ( following the Chinese custom of chasing away the ghosts) Then people wait up till, it is the first second of the beginning to the new year ( according to their clocks) just to make merry which may end up in all sorts of evil ( getting laid) Some are let to believe they need to have money in their pockets or count them at that moment others may be led to belief they need to have ample food and fruits on their table, so that they will be prosperous through out the year . Lastly make resolutions for the sake of making one. This is similar to Christ mass , where it is a matter of buying gifts and going merry on that day and nothing to do with Christ.
Ibrahim says; that was not your question or the context of this thread. The calendar we are using in the English medium was created by the Christians to suit their purpose and adjusted now and then by them.
Thus the accuracy of it can be debated, just like the contents of their scriptures.
As Muslims when Allah (swt) abrogated the past errors ( deleted) and installed the latest version the Qur’an as our guide, Meant what was conveyed was to be adopted and practiced, which we have failed in this time frame. As we do not observe the sacred months and use the Islamic calendar only to determine our eids ( which is the reason why we cannot agree on when it falls even within the same community)
Our excuse is that we need to conform to norms, by all means but ** do we also need to discard the truth? Surely not ! Was the point I raised concerning the Islamic calendar **
Ibrahim says : All rulings made by man may be discussed but I did not touch on anyone’s ruling except Allah (swt) command and that for Muslims is beyond doubt or discussion.
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Coming back to the use of gregarian calendar and the consequent greeting of New Year, are you equating it with spreading christianity and falsehood?
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Ibrahim says: No not with Christianity but with falsehood, the new year ceremonies , just like the Christmas ceremonies are founded on false beliefs
Lets look at the origin of the calendar we are using. To better understand this.
Roman Republican calendar:
dating system that evolved in Rome prior to the Christian era. According to legend, Romulus, ** the founder of Rome, instituted the calendar in about 738 BC. This dating system, however, was probably a product of evolution from the Greek lunar calendar, which in turn was derived from the Babylonian. The original Roman calendar appears to have consisted only of 10 months and of a year of 304 days. ** The remaining 61 1/4 days were apparently ignored, resulting in a gap during the winter season. The months bore the names ** Martius, Aprilis, Maius, Juniius, Quintilis, Sextilis, September, October, November, and December–the last six names correspond to the Latin words for the numbers 5 through 10.** The Roman ruler Numa Pompilius is credited with adding January at the beginning and February at the end of the calendar to create the 12-month year. ** In 452 BC, February was moved between January and March. **
By the 1st century BC, the Roman calendar had become hopelessly confused. ** The year, based on cycles and phases of the moon, totaled 355 days, about 10 1/4 days shorter than the solar year. ** The occasional intercalation of an extra month of 27 or 28 days, called Mercedonius, kept the calendar in step with the seasons. The confusion was compounded by political maneuvers. ** The Pontifex Maximus and the College of Pontiffs had the authority to alter the calendar, and they sometimes did so to reduce or extend the term of a particular magistrate or other public official.** Finally, in 46 BC, Julius Caesar initiated a thorough reform that resulted in the establishment of a new dating system, the Julian calendar (q.v.).
Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica
Julian calendar
also called OLD STYLE CALENDAR, dating system ** established by Julius Caesar as a reform of the Roman republican calendar (q.v.).** Caesar, advised by the Alexandrian astronomer Sosigenes, made the new calendar solar, not lunar, ** and he took the length of the solar year as 365 1/4 days. ** The year was divided into 12 months, all of which had either 30 or 31 days except February, which contained 28 days in common (365-day) years and 29 in every fourth year (a leap year, of 366 days). ** Because of misunderstandings, the calendar was not established in smooth operation until AD 8. **
** Sosigenes had overestimated the length of the year by 11 minutes 14 seconds, and by the mid-1500s, the cumulative effect of this error had shifted the dates of the seasons by about 10 days from Caesar’s time. ** Pope Gregory XIII’s reform (see Gregorian calendar), proclaimed in 1582, ** restored the calendar to the seasonal dates of AD 325, ** an adjustment of 10 days. The Julian calendar has gradually been abandoned since 1582 in favour of the Gregorian calendar.
Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica
Gregorian Calendar:-
also called NEW STYLE CALENDAR, solar dating system now in general use. ** It was proclaimed in 1582 by Pope Gregory XIII as a reform of the Julian calendar. **
By the Julian reckoning, the solar year comprised 365 1/4 days; the intercalation of a “leap day” every four years was intended to maintain correspondence between the calendar and the seasons. A slight inaccuracy in the measurement (the solar year comprising more precisely 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds) caused the calendar dates of the seasons to regress almost one day per century. (see also Index: leap year)
** Although this regression had amounted to 14 days by Pope Gregory’s time, he based his reform on restoration of the vernal equinox, then falling on March 11, to the date (March 21) it had in AD 325, the time of the Council of Nicaea. The change was effected by advancing the calendar 10 days after Oct. 4, 1582, the day following being reckoned as October 15. **
The Gregorian calendar differs from the Julian only in that no century year is a leap year unless it is exactly divisible by 400 (e.g., 1600, 2000). A further refinement, the designation of years evenly divisible by 4,000 as common (not leap) years, will keep the Gregorian calendar accurate to within one day in 20,000 years.
** Within a year the change had been adopted by the Italian states, Portugal, Spain, and the German Catholic states. Gradually, other nations adopted the Gregorian calendar: the Protestant German states in 1699; England and its colonies in 1752; Sweden in 1753; Japan in 1873; China in 1912; the Soviet Union in 1918; and Greece in 1923.** Muslim countries tend to retain calendars based on Islam
Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica
Ibrahim says: hence all this has to do with seasons and the SUN. The Sun was considered a god in those days and also appears on the pillars of St Peters in Rome Similarly obelisks are found in St peters as well as most cities which are all based on pagan beliefs associated with the sun god which became incorporated into Christianity.
Allah (swt) enjoins that we base our calendar on the Moon and not on the seasons as you may be well observing the seasons are currently changing, if the church had its way they will be changing their calendar according to it.
[quote]
Is there any clear quranic verse or hadith which prohibits using gregarian calendar
Ibrahim says: As per the above info, you should understand, the Gregorian calendar only came into existence in 1582 and prior to that it was the Julian calendar which was started by Julius Caesar and prior to that it was the Roman calendar which only had ten months , that is why there was an X mas, meaning tenth month celebration ( which lasted for 5 days) which became Christ mass and new year respectively in the era of the cross.
Thus we will not find exclusive mention of this calendar in the Qur’an or hadiths . Allah (swt) had conveyed thus:
10: 5 It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory ** and the moon to be a light (of beauty) and measured out stages for her: that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). ** Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain his Signs in detail for those who understand.
6: 96 He it is that cleaveth the daybreak (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity and** the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): ** such is the judgment and ordering of (Him) the Exalted in Power the Omniscient.
Ibrahim says: I assure you the pope is not the one to decide for us as to when we should celebrate the new year.
Ibrahim says: This is another issue all together. Wishing people goodness is not against Islam
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 98 Narrated by Tamim ad-Dari
The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) observed: ** Ad-Din is a name of sincerity and well-wishing.** Upon this we said: For whom? He replied: for Allah, His Book, His Messenger and for the leaders and the general Muslims.
4: 85 ** Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein: and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden: ** and Allah hath power over all things.
86 ** When a (courteous) greeting is offered you meet it with a greeting still more courteous (at least) of equal courtesy. ** Allah takes careful account of all things
Allah (swt) knows best
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** He who acts upon what he knows, the Creator will give him what he does not know. **
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that was not your question or the context of this thread.
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The last three paragraphs of my first post deal with the issue of New Year Greeting. Infact the question was whether wishing someone "Happy New Year", is it a religious greeting or not? With all the information u posted regarding the origins of the calendar, do u now maintain that the new year is a religious occassion or just the start of the new year?
Hasnain, reading your post again, it seems all the rulings u posted refer to christian festivals of christmas, easter etc. Do u also equate start of lunar year as a sort of religious occassion?
Unfortunately all the evidence, provided does not convince anyone of that. Till a few centuries ago, the popes of chritian clergy were the defacto rulers, just like muslims had the khalifa. Any administrative decisions needed approval of the pope, but that do not make those calendars as a christian deed. Christ's birthday was not on Dec 25 anyway, and it was just celebrated on that day to coincide with existing holidays.
Now, if we get to nitty gritty of this argument, when a muslim wishes someone "have a happy new year", all it means is (1) enjoy the holidays and (2) hope you have a good next 12 months. None of those who wish are condoning the christian beliefs or whatnot. Its simply a greeting, just like you say "have a good day" at the end of the day.
When I returned to the office after the weekend of Dec 16, everyone in my office greeted me by saying "hope you had a wonderful eid". This is just politeness on their part, because they knew it was the end of our fasting month and we had our eid the day after that. All of them are christians or jews and I am sure they do not subscribe to islamic rulings or care for the history. Its just politeness. So if they are wishing us for our festivals, according to 4:86 (u just quoted above) what is our obligation?
On a personal level, during the month of December every person greets the other by saying "Merry Christmas". Politeness demands we return the greeting. However to avoid 'spreading falsehood' (as you put it), several years back I had discussed the issue with a learned scholar, and as per his suggestion, I now return the greeting by saying "Happy Holidays".
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Originally posted by Pristine: With all the information u posted regarding the origins of the calendar, do u now maintain that the new year is a religious occassion or just the start of the new year?
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Ibrahim says: Salaams to all
Pristine, to understand this you need to trace as to how it originated , If it had origins based on pagan beliefs, then such a greeting amounts to spreading falsehood, even though it is not clearly understood by the participants or they may be thinking that they are welcoming another year, so to speak.
But I have made this clear to all by conveying to you that In Islam our New year is supposed to begin in Muharram , which is also a sacred month in Islam. Thus not revealing this or concealing it amounts to disobeying Allah (swt) since He had conveyed
2: 42 And cover not Truth with falsehood ** nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is). **
I will leave it to you to decide for yourself, since it looks as though you will not be satisfied until I agree with you.
Nevertheless
** Christian, canon law designated 10 holy days: **
1) Christmas,
2) ** Circumcision (New Year's Day),**
3) Epiphany,
4) Ascension,
5) Corpus Christi,
6) Assumption,
7) SS. Peter and Paul,
8) All Saints,
9) the Immaculate Conception,
10) St. Joseph.
Many holidays of the major world religions tend to occur at the approximate dates of more ancient, pagan festivals. ** In the case of Christianity, this is sometimes owing to the policy of the early church of scheduling Christian observances at dates when they would eclipse pagan ones ** --a practice that proved more efficacious than merely prohibiting the earlier celebrations. In other cases, the similarity of the date is due to the tendency to celebrate turning points of the seasons, or to a combination of the two factors.
Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica
Ibrahim says: In Roman times, important Isis festivals were held on December 25, January 6, and March 5. X mas ( roman numeral X = 10) simply means tenth month festival , which currently has become Christmas and New Year to Christians
Kindly read this, if it will benefit you ………………..
** New year Festival **
any of numerous religious, social, and cultural observances worldwide celebrating the commencement of the New Year. Such festivals, which are among the oldest and most universally observed, ** generally include rites and ceremonies expressive of mortification, purgation, invigoration, and jubilation over life's renewal. ** This renewal is the essence of the New Year. It is, to varying degrees of explicitness in world cultures, a remembrance or repetition of the creation of the cosmos on the symbolic anniversary of its creation, in order that the gods, the cosmos, and the community may be strengthened.
The earliest-known record of a New Year's festival dates from about 2000 BC in Mesopotamia, where the New Year (Akitu) commenced with the new moon nearest the spring equinox (mid-March; Babylonia) or nearest the autumn equinox (mid-September; Assyria). The year began for the Egyptians, Phoenicians, and Persians with the autumn equinox (September 21) and for the Greeks, until the 5th century BC, with the winter solstice (December 21). ** By the Roman republican calendar the year began on March 1; after 153 BC the official date was January 1, and this was confirmed by the Julian calendar (46 BC). **
In the Jewish religious calendar the year begins with the first day of the month of Tishri (September 6-October 5; Rosh Hashana [q.v.]).** In early medieval times most of Christian Europe regarded March 25 (Annunciation Day) as the beginning of the year, though for Anglo-Saxon England New Year's Day was December 25. William the Conqueror decreed that the year start on January 1, but, later, England began its year with the rest of Christendom on March 25. January 1 was restored as New Year's Day by the Gregorian calendar (1582), immediately adopted by Roman Catholic countries.** Other countries slowly followed suit: Scotland, 1660; Germany and Denmark, about 1700; England, 1752; Sweden, 1753; and Russia, 1918. ** Observances of the secular New Year in the West vary regionally but typically entail the preparation of a customary meal (as "hoppin' John," a dish of peas and rice, in the U.S. South) and the making of personal resolutions for the coming year. ** (see also Index: Jewish holiday, Middle Ages)
Most Eastern New Year festivals retain a distinctly religious character. In Dravidian southern India, the Tamil New Year is celebrated at winter solstice with the three-day Pongal festival, marked by religious pilgrimages and the ritual boiling of new rice. ** In Bangladesh the New Year is marked by the worship of the Ganges. **
Pre-Buddhist indigenous and Hindu influences are prominent in Southeast Asian festivals. In Thailand, Trut, or New Year (March/April), is of a mixed character. Buddhist monks exorcise ghosts from the vicinity and are presented with gifts. Oblations are made to various gods of Hindu origin. As people meet, water is playfully thrown by one on the other. ** Gambling, usually frowned upon, is permitted for the three-day festival. **
Chinese New Year is celebrated officially for a month beginning in late January or early February. ** It is preceded by an expulsion of demons and by theatrical performances. Offerings are made to gods of hearth and wealth and to ancestors. ** Tibetans observe the New Year in February with feasting, visiting, and a relaxation of monastic discipline.
** The celebration of the New Year on January 1-3 is the most popular annual festival in Japan. ** In some rural districts it continues to be observed according to the lunar-solar calendar on dates varying between January 20 and February 19, and ** the traditions connected with the festival confirm its original connection with the coming of spring and a time of rebirth. ** The festival is called in Japanese Ganjitsu ("Original Day"), signifying the beginning of the new year, and also Shogatsu ("Standard Month"), ** referring to the belief that the good or bad fortune met with during the first few days of the new year may be taken as representative of the fortune for the entire coming year. **
The Japanese festival is customarily celebrated with ceremonial housecleaning, feasting, and exchanging visits and gifts. The house gateway or entrance is often hung with a shimenawa (a sacred rope made of rice straw) to keep out evil spirits and decorated with fern, bitter orange, and lobster, signifying good fortune, prosperity, and longevity. Foods special to the holidays are mochi (cakes of rice paste) and zoni (a soup of vegetables and mochi). Traditional amusements are shuttlecock and utagaruta, a card game that involves matching lines of 100 poems.
Other Japanese observances--once widespread but now diminished--included, early on the first day, visits to Shinto shrines of the tutelary deities or to Buddhist temples. On the second day, arts and crafts were ritually recommenced. On the seventh day, a rice gruel containing seven purifying herbs was traditionally served and the decorations removed.
Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica
Ibrahim says: I had already given you some pointers as to what takes place on new years eve and as the clock ticks down. I am sure you will agree such things are evil and cannot be encouraged in Islam.
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Hasnain, while I have nothing against the worthy scholars you quoted, as you very well know, there are many issues where equally knowledgable scholars have come to diametrically opposite conclusion.
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Really? "Equally" knowledgable scholars? Please would you like to share some of these scholars with us, so that we can investigate and determine whether they base their judgement upon the understanding of the companions and those who have learnt from them in the lineage of knowledge and understanding. I'm sure you will agree that the best understanding of the Deen is that of the Companions - radhiAllaahu anum - do you not?
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While you are free to follow the opinion of a scholar whom you consider getting the right answer, if we start disrespecting those whose opinion may not be accurate, you are inviting the same disrespect to your own teacher. And that, I warn you, is a very slippery slope.
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Precisely my point. Is it not better to take from the scholars who base their fatawaas upon the correct understanding of the Religion, rather than those "whose opinion may not be accurate"?
And on the contrary, this is not inviting disrespect to my teacher, niether to any teacher who bases his opinion upon the correct methodology, but is rather spreading their word and that which they had firm belief upon.
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It is for this same reason, that many people are skeptical when it comes to inferences and deductions out of simple ayats and ahadith.
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Even the simplist ayaat and ahadeeth should be based upon the understanding of the Companions, becuase some verses and narrations in interpretation may not be as straight forward as they seem, while others may.
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These inferences are determined by human beings, scholars they may be, and can be wrong.
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Exactly. This is why when there is unanimous agreement among the scholars (who take their understanding from Qur'aan and Sunnah as understood by the Companions) we should take their fataawas as a refernce to understanding an issue, otherwise there is far greater chance we are following an innacurate 'fatwa'.
Basing judgement upon the correct understanding, and basing judgement upon the wrong understanding is the crux of the matter while attempting to comprehend and grasp the issue at hand. After all, what can be more wrong than judging by the Qur'aan, and the Sunnah of the Messenger - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - as understood and explained by the "Best of Mankind", namely the Companions - radhiAllaahu anum?
And what can be more wrong than taking from such scholars who base their assessment on exactly that?
Is it not better to be safe than sorry?
&peace
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
How such simple things can affect the integrity of holy Islam,
why to have respect for thoes ulema when thier interest is vested in to thier personal gains instead of Islam by issuing such controversial fatwas!
When you respect other’s religion, they come to your religion for more learning becoz of your tolerance, thats why Holy prophet practiced religion for 40 years before handing over Allah’s message to common folk!