Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

[paki_man]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

@teelobhain

e33or/ Paki_man Both of you are nothing but ignorant jahil fools thats why you are showing your true colors!..you people can only have dirty hearts and hatred against other people while you yourselves are pathetic!

I am amazed, at you calling us ignorant and jahil. I really am amazed. We are human, we mourned, and are still mourning her death. What color are we showing. The color of TRUTH. Is it not true what I posted. How do we have dirty hearts, because we simply state the truth? We don’t hate Benazir, we disagree with what she’s done.

It really is sad, that people who stand up against politicans who are proven corrupts, are called pathetic, and dirty hearted people.

We could easily just sit idly by, like the rest of you people…but since we care about Pakistan, and Pakistani’s we point out the wrongs that people have done to Pakistan, so that these wrongs can be correct.

• You my friend are pathetic, that you do not see corruption when you see it.
• You my friend are pathetic because you can not seperate critisizm from hatred.
• You my friend are pathetic for making a leader who did nothing for Pakistan, into a saint.

Tell me one thing she did good for Pakistan. One thing. Tell me one institution that gained from her governance. Tell me one good thing…

Please people, I don’t want this to turn into an anti-Benazir thread. I want people to be educated at the facts. We should mourn her death, but also know what she did when she was alive.

Please read my other thread. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=273365

[e33or]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

@paki_man

I am amazed, at you calling us ignorant and jahil. I really am amazed. We are human, we mourned, and are still mourning her death. What color are we showing. The color of TRUTH. Is it not true what I posted. How do we have dirty hearts, because we simply state the truth? We don't Benazir, we disagree with what she's down.

It really is sad, that people who stand up against politicans who are proven corrupts, are called pathetic, and dirty hearted people.

We could easily just sit idly by, like the rest of you people...but since we care about Pakistan, and Pakistani's we point out the wrongs that people have done to Pakistan, so that these wrongs can be correct.

• You my friend are pathetic, that you do not see corruption when you see it.
• You my friend are pathetic because you can not seperate critisizm from hatred.
• You my friend are pathetic for making a leader who did nothing for Pakistan, into a saint.

Tell me one thing she did good for Pakistan. One thing. Tell me one institution that gained from her governance. Tell me one good thing...

Please people, I don't want this to turn into an anti-Benazir thread. I want people to be educated at the facts. We should mourn her death, but also know what she did when she was alive.

She was corrupt and traitor and will be remember as martyr. :)

[Zgard]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

She certainly has weired ideas when she was alive but well she is dead now....May Allah forgive her sins and may Allah fix Pakistan through his love and mercy....ameen

[Raangbaaz]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

@paki_man

I am amazed, at you calling us ignorant and jahil. I really am amazed. We are human, we mourned, and are still mourning her death. What color are we showing. The color of TRUTH. Is it not true what I posted. How do we have dirty hearts, because we simply state the truth? We don’t hate Benazir, we disagree with what she’s done.

It really is sad, that people who stand up against politicans who are proven corrupts, are called pathetic, and dirty hearted people.

We could easily just sit idly by, like the rest of you people…but since we care about Pakistan, and Pakistani’s we point out the wrongs that people have done to Pakistan, so that these wrongs can be correct.

• You my friend are pathetic, that you do not see corruption when you see it.
• You my friend are pathetic because you can not seperate critisizm from hatred.
• You my friend are pathetic for making a leader who did nothing for Pakistan, into a saint.

Tell me one thing she did good for Pakistan. One thing. Tell me one institution that gained from her governance. Tell me one good thing…

Please people, I don’t want this to turn into an anti-Benazir thread. I want people to be educated at the facts. We should mourn her death, but also know what she did when she was alive.

Please read my other thread. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=273365

This is sad but so true.

[farazrafi]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

Paki_man you said what a lot of people had in mind but were just not saying it since a lot of us are in shock about the whole thing. She had her 2 chances being the Prime Minister and the promises were never delivered to the people of Pakistan (they were bogus and unattainable promises to begin with....in the lines of roti, kapra, and makaan or no unemployment etc)

With that being said, lets respect the person since she just passed away tragically and respect the people who are saddened by the loss of their political leader!

[superstar]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

@e33or

She was corrupt and traitor and will be remember as martyr. :)

no.!if that is your opinion then fair enough,but it inst a fact and thats for sure

[I_m_Kool]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

@superstar

no.!if that is your opinion then fair enough,but it inst a fact and thats for sure

LOL, you can't argue that she was corrupt. Thats like saying that the sun doesn't rise from the East.

And although I disagree quite strongly with some of the points listed by the thread starter, I do agree with his general point. Its due time that we stop idolizing corrupt politicians who have nothing but self-interest in their mind. And no, I don't see how the thread starter is being "hateful". He's just setting the record straight, while also showing a healthy amount of respect for the deceased. Obviously he's not going to say that she did not steal millions if not billions from the country just because she is now deceased.

[ajtr]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

Y all these accusation when person is not alive to defend herself and put her own view points on the accusations.Even court allows criminals to defend themselves but benazir was the leader of a country.I see a motive of the person to defame her after her death knowing fully well the old saying "dead never speaks".she has been silenced into her death.

Even if i take ur accusations for granted then let me know why she wasnt arrested and tried after she returned to pakistan instead ur so called military regime tried to close cases which it itself manufactured.

PS:not everything is black n white.their r shades of grey too.and if u try to dig up the 60 yrs of ur military doing then u will find it of more treacherous than ur politicians.

Ps

[ajtr]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

And mr. 007(thread starter) let me know how u know that she was criminal when court still have to pronounce its judgment.The only thing i can make out is that u r acting like a accuser and the judge at the same time.

[I_m_Kool]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

And mr. 007(thread starter) let me know how u know that she was criminal when court still have to pronounce its judgment.The only thing i can make out is that u r acting like a accuser and the judge at the same time.

Did u even read his post? Read this part:

**-On January 26, 2006, Interpol (Interpol; being an international criminal police) issued red notices (Red notices; being requests for arrest and extradition) for Benazir Bhutto and her husband. The red notices were issued on the charges of money laundering and theft.

• On August 6, 2003, the Swiss government charged her and her husband of money laundering and sentenced them both to six months in prison, a fine of $50,000 and an order to reimburse the Pakistani government a sum of $11 million.

• The countries of Switzerland, Poland and France provided evidence of her corruption and proof of her total wealth estimated between the ranges of $750 million to $1.5 billion. **

Now I don't have the will to go on google and verify the exact dates and sums of money but let me assure you that the accusations of corruption are not fictional creations that people have created to defame her character posthumously.

[paki_man]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

To Mr./Mrs. Ajtr, If you would have read my article properly, she has been convicted by the Swiss government. She was also given a jail sentence. Also sir/maam, these accusations are not new, these accusations have existed long before her death.

[divine-light]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

now the BB matter is between her and allah Almighty.....but still...i must say....

@paki_man

Will the Real Benazir be exposed?

I consider anyone who categorically fits the description of the following statements, as a traitor to the country I love; Pakistan;

• If a Pakistani whoever they may be; states that they will allow foreign troops inside my country to attack my countrymen is a traitor in my eyes.

no doubt ...about it.....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; states that they will scrap the nuclear program of Pakistan is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

no doubt about it.....anyone ..which even thinks to stop Pakistan Nuclear Program...MUST be pierced with infinite bullets..or hanged publicly...so that..no one even dare to think ...such thing....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; states that they will allow foreign powers to take charge/control of our nuclear assets, is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

no doubt about it.....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; threatens to maim the intelligent agencies and the military is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

no doubt about it.....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; states that they will allow foreign agencies to detain and interrogate Pakistan's national hero AQ Khan, is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

he/she is the greatest traitor of all times..who even thinks such thing....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; writes a letter to the U.S state department requesting the stoppage of aid to Pakistan, and demanding political support to convince the Indians to attack the Pakistani military on the eastern borders, is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

no dout about it....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; accuses Pakistan of state sponsored terrorism against India (Effectively calling Pakistan a terrorist state) is a traitor in my eyes.

[/quote]

no doubt about it...

[quote]
If a Pakistani whoever they may be; threatens to abolish the death penalty for crimes of murder is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

no doubt about it....

[quote]
- If a Pakistani whoever they may be; threatens to abolish the institution of madrasses (Madrasses; being the only source of education for the poor in Pakistan) is a traitor in my eyes.
[/quote]

no doubt about it....

[quote]
There is one particular Pakistani that fits the bill for all of the preceding statements, and that Pakistani is none other than the "greatest hope for Pakistan" the "saving grace of a torn nation" (drum roll) Mrs. Benazir Bhutto herself.
[/quote]

no doubt about it....

and now Allah knows best ...He is Merciful....and Raheem....may BB soul rest in peace..and may Allah forgive her sins..ameen...

[system]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

Whether we like it or not, in a country like Pakistan, as corrupt as it is, Bhutto felt she had to rely on outsiders to put pressure on the demond that is the Pak Army.

Perhaps if the Pak Army and GHQ hadnt interfered in the workings of the govt, and there were civilin recourses within Pakistan for the PM to rely on, looking to the US and other outsiders for support wouldnt be necessary.

People who blindly foolow the dictates of the Army and Musharaf fail to realize that civilian leaders have no one within Pakistan to rely on, while the Amry controls everything...

This is why we need strong independant institutions, so we no longer have to rely on outsiders to resolve internal matters.

She wasnt a traitor, she knew where the power lay, and she had to look for support outside the country, because that is all she had... But ultimately, it was all in the name of democracy and civilian rule...

Traitors are they who destroy Pakistans democratic institutions, and destroy the constitituon to justify their own unrepresentative and grotesque rule.

Now that we know Army corruption and dictatorship ourselves, I think we should also support pressure on Mush and the Army to step down... External economic pressure on Mush govt is the best way to ensure that they are thrown out of power and democratic setup is brought in.

[divine-light]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

you are also right.....

but why she looked at Condi..Washintgton....London....instead of the 16 crore people of Pakistan !!!!!

her father was a great leader...not to agree with him..is another thing...but ZAb always belived in power of people..unlike his daughter !!!!

[system]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

To Mr./Mrs. Ajtr, If you would have read my article properly, she has been convicted by the Swiss government. She was also given a jail sentence. Also sir/maam, these accusations are not new, these accusations have existed long before her death.

Well, thank the transparent and democratic govt of Pervez Musharaf for giving her a clean bill of health!

[system]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

you are also right.....

but why she looked at Condi..Washintgton....London....instead of the 16 crore people of Pakistan !!!!!

her father was a great leader...not to agree with him..is another thing...but ZAb always belived in power of people..unlike his daughter !!!!

Because they 16 crore awam is helpless and pitiful...
And I guess she felt that the Awam couldnt muster the strength needed to fight an Army which we all know has resorted to some really mean and vindictive ways of dealing with rivals.

People power will not be enough to get rid of the Armies hand in politics... There has to be the knowledge and threat that any Military govt thats takes power will not be rewarded with a sudden influx of cash and prizes from the west if they take over...

I also disliked her resorting to the US for support.. But you cant fault her for seeing the reality of the situation, the US does hold the cards in Pakistan...
The US for example can press for free and fair elections in which Benzair probably would have gotten the support of the people and won... But without the support of the US, whats to guarantee that Mush wont rig the elctions to allow his lota party to win?

[stu_bididiot]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

@PaKpatriot1

Whether we like it or not, in a country like Pakistan, as corrupt as it is, Bhutto felt she had to rely on outsiders to put pressure on the demond that is the Pak Army.

Perhaps if the Pak Army and GHQ hadnt interfered in the workings of the govt, and there were civilin recourses within Pakistan for the PM to rely on, looking to the US and other outsiders for support wouldnt be necessary.

People who blindly foolow the dictates of the Army and Musharaf fail to realize that civilian leaders have no one within Pakistan to rely on, while the Amry controls everything...

This is why we need strong independant institutions, so we no longer have to rely on outsiders to resolve internal matters.

She wasnt a traitor, she knew where the power lay, and she had to look for support outside the country, because that is all she had... But ultimately, it was all in the name of democracy and civilian rule...

Traitors are they who destroy Pakistans democratic institutions, and destroy the constitituon to justify their own unrepresentative and grotesque rule.

Now that we know Army corruption and dictatorship ourselves, I think we should also support pressure on Mush and the Army to step down... External economic pressure on Mush govt is the best way to ensure that they are thrown out of power and democratic setup is brought in.

my friend, by asking the US to handle pakistani problems she advertised pakistan as a failed state and a banana republic, not that it isnt, but how embarassing wud that be to have others come and solve ur problems. why stop there, give the economy to the americans to handle too.

[SindSagar]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

Now If Only Our Fellow Country men would discuss differences Like We did here.................

---

Pakistan would be considered a Modern Moderate Ummah as our Holy Prophet (PBUH) Envisioned for us to be..........May Allah Guide us all who profess to be called Pakistani..........

[system]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

my friend, by asking the US to handle pakistani problems she advertised pakistan as a failed state and a banana republic, not that it isnt, but how embarassing wud that be to have others come and solve ur problems. why stop there, give the economy to the americans to handle too.

Umm... Pakistan is practically a failed state at this time and a banana republic. Advertising isnt necessary.

The fact is, that to get Pakistan out of this guagmire, you have to make some decisions that seem distasteful.

I agree with her to some extent... Pak Army will never liten to anyone within Pakistan... But America and the West hold the purse string on which the Pak Army relies, and the only way to control them is to get to the source of the money.

And honestly, I doubt she wanted to hand the country to America... What she wanted was the help of the Americans in controling that dead weight around the neck of the nation, the corrupt Pak Army.

[Reza_Pahlavi]

Re: Will the real Benazir be Exposed? Are we mourning a traitor?

*-On January 26, 2006, Interpol (Interpol; being an international criminal police) issued red notices (Red notices; being requests for arrest and extradition) for Benazir Bhutto and her husband. The red notices were issued on the charges of money laundering and theft. *

*- On August 6, 2003, the Swiss government charged her and her husband of money laundering and sentenced them both to six months in prison, a fine of $50,000 and an order to reimburse the Pakistani government a sum of $11 million. *

*- The countries of Switzerland, Poland and France provided evidence of her corruption and proof of her total wealth estimated between the ranges of $750 million to $1.5 billion. *

I wonder if the loot was part of her will? or maybe Zardari has direct control of it?