yaar sheraz thoo jeetha taliban haaray ..khush..chalo thum bhi khush hum bhi khush..
The superman theme music can be heard playing loudly from an unknown corner as, TA DA! SJ shows up after a long time in the religion forum
I relly missed this place.......
SJ places his 2 cents in the charity bin that can be found at the entrance of the thread
Isnt the Northern Alliance ALSO muslim? If they are than we should be given a choice on who to support!
The Shias do not rely on hadith of the Prothet they rely on the true sources. The Ahlul-Bayt and quran. Sharia is law. Law is Quran. Shias follow Quran. Shias follow Islamic Law. simple!
When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
Sharia is law. Law is Quran. Shias follow Quran. Shias follow Islamic Law. simple!
**
[/quote]
If shias follow Quran, then where in the Quran it is said that mutaa is allowed?
Its still here, I forgot to check the lil box. Anyways, thanks for caring
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Sheraz
I guess you are blind or must be are real moron or brain dead. They are still there and will be. If not under Taliban then under the title “former Jihadi” as you see.
They have been saying it from the begining, “You can kill us, but you can’t kill the ideology”.
People like you that bring in Shia, Sunni, and Qadayaani by making pity difference amngost us are responsible for what is happening to the Taliban. I know, as a true Muslim you won’t be happy for what is happening to them. But if you are, then we know where you kind stand.
Take it easy, or hard, but make sure you take it.
p.s The sig is specaily for Pristine bibi
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
**
1. Isnt the Northern Alliance ALSO muslim? If they are than we should be given a choice on who to support!
**
[/quote]
Look, who is supporting Northern Alliance : USA, Russia and India. And see what is happening there after Taleban are gone, people going to cinemas in Ramzan, listening to music, dancing, women throwing away their hijaab, is that the freedom u guys are looking for?
[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**FF;
Your ignorance surmounts the highest peaks.**
[/quote]
Thanks, coming from you, I shall take that as a complement.
**
[quote]
Your sahabahs and scholars were taught Islamic theology through our imams, the purified household of the ahl-bait (as).**
[/quote]
LOL. That is fresh history for me. I thought Abu Bakr, Omar, Othman, Ali, Ayesha, Abu Huraira, etc. (radhi Allaho anhum) came before the start of shiaism.
Also, ahl-bait means members of the household. A married daughter is in a different household. She does not bring the household, she goes away. What kind of logic do you apply? The ahl-bait were the wives of the prophet (sallallaho alaihe wasallam).
**
[quote]
Your 4 schools of thought did not exist at the time of yr sahabahs. Abu Baker was not Shafai or Hanbali, or Maliki. These scholars appeared hundreds of years after the holy prophet (pbuh).**
[/quote]
The four scholars gave fiqh, not shariah and they developed usul al fiqh. Another error you make is that we are Muslim, not Shafii, Hanafi. Abu Bakr (radhi Allaho anho) was a very good Muslim. In fact, he was delegated the responsibility to lead the prayers when rasool Allah was unwell.
**
[quote]
Our imams (as) were present right from the prophet's (pbuh) time onwards. YOUR 4 scholars were students of OUR imams (as).**
[/quote]
LOL. Again your history amazes me. Where do you get this from?
**
[quote]
ON WHAT BASIS DO YOU CLAIM YOUR 4 SCHOOLS OF THOUGHTS, OR THAT OR THE DEVIANT WAHAB ARE THE ONLY CORRECT REPRESENTATION OF ISLAM ?**
[/quote]
Did I claim this? One of us is hallucinating.
**
[quote]
Please explain on what basis is the shariat of the Taliban according to the holy prophet (pbuh), and why the majority of the great sunni world has rejected their interpretation of the qur'an ?**
[/quote]
Not an issue here. If you want to discuss this, start a new post.
**
[quote]
You do not know of the 12 holy imams (as) out of your own ignorance.
Don't blame your shortfalls on others.**
[/quote]
Presumption on your part. Irrelevant here. My shortfalls? All of us have some. Shall appreciate your advising me so that I may correct myself.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[quote]
Originally posted by OASis:
**
If shias follow Quran, then where in the Quran it is said that mutaa is allowed?
**
[/quote]
Where in the quran does it say Muta is NOT allowed?
As far as I know the prophet used to allow the practise in his time and it was abolished by Umer.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
**
1. Isnt the Northern Alliance ALSO muslim? If they are than we should be given a choice on who to support!**
[/quote]
Politics. Irrelevant.
**
[quote]
2. The Shias do not rely on hadith of the Prothet they rely on the truesources. The Ahlul-Bayt and quran. Sharia is law. Law is Quran. Shias follow Quran. Shias follow Islamic Law. simple!
[/quote]
**
LOL. The hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaho alaihe wasallam is not the true source and ahle bayt are? Ahle bayt, by the way, is the household; not the household of Ali (radhi Allaho anho).
If you do not believe the hadeeth, how and when do you pray? How do you perform other obligations that are not clearly amplified in the Qur'an?
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[This message has been edited by FactFinder (edited November 23, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by OASis:
** Look, who is supporting Northern Alliance : USA, Russia and India. And see what is happening there after Taleban are gone, people going to cinemas in Ramzan, listening to music, dancing, women throwing away their hijaab, is that the freedom u guys are looking for?
**
[/quote]
Ah! But why blame them only?
All muslim countries have cinemas, music centers and non-pardha women running around(Pakistan, U.A.E, eygpt, Iran, syria, yemen, oman, bahrain ect ect)Then why go to such great lengths as to blame the NA?
Ok support, I dont see any "muslim" country supporting Taliban and saying "Taliban preach the true faith". If that were the case then I would have agreed yes, it is a battle between Islam and Kafirs!
If your Taliban were ture Muslims why did the cultivate Drugs? They should know drugs are haram......according to Islam people who do intoxication should be whipped. But The Taliban are allowing such un-islamic acts openly!(Yes they banned it but what about all those years ago?)is this following Sharia?
[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
**
LOL. The hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaho alaihe wasallam is not the true source and ahle bayt are? Ahle bayt, by the way, is the household; not the household of Ali (radhi Allaho anho).
If you do not believe the hadeeth, how and when do you pray? How do you perform other obligations that are not clearly amplified in the Qur'an?
**
[/quote]
Is it just me or do you seek fun and games through this?
I didnt say house of Ali did I? Why do you guys always think we link everything to him(A.S)????
The Ahle-bayt as I said are the true scources of guidance after the demise of our beloved propthet(A.S)so naturally we learned how to offer our prayers through them......
take a look at this will you:
33:33
Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you through purifying.
The people of the house are pure and clean. meaning they do nothing wrong and cant sin.
If we follow these people's paths we are most probably gonna be on the right path!
Unlike some reported Hadith of sahabas who arent even mentioned in quran as pure and flawless!
who would you choose?
*The pure and flawless(according to Quran)
*The followers who can have bad deeds in thier hearts.
I would pick the first and try to follow tem.
one step at a time.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
can you stop LOLing and find a point to debate?
2.There was no sunni shia in the time of the prophet. Co we cant claim nor can you! What we (or you) can say is that we follow the true path.
-
Technically according to quran, no. Whenever they are mentioned they are as ‘wives of prophet’ and not as ahlul-bayt! If you read the verse they are given a seprate section of it and the ahlul-bayt are given another one.
-
Really?! put it there! I’m a Muslim too! Not a Shia but a Muslim! (are we different or the same?)(Abu ji leading prayers is another matter. one which I will discuss later)
-
Our first Imam was Ali. So according to History he was the one with the prophet. Our second Imam was Ali’s son, hassan. So our faith goes dirctly from the prophet to them!
-
We all have short falls no doubt but riligion cant! So if your belif is true then you cant have any short falls either!!!
MASHALLAH
THATS GR8 NEWS!
I HOPE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE EMBRACE ISLAM JUST LIKE MUHAMMED ALI AND WILL SMITH
DOES N E 1 THINK HE WILL CHANGE HIS NAME?
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
*Shias follow Quran.
*
[/quote]
Which one. The one that we have today and was compiled as a mushaf under instructions from Othman; or the one that had 10 more paras and will be brought by Mehdi (alaihe salam)?
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
You mean there are 2 types of Quran!!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/eek.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
how many times do we have to clear this.
The Quran was sent down to our prophet in this month. It hasnt changed scince!
As far as history goes Hazrat Ali was the one who sorted out the quran with guidance from the prophet and not Othmaan!
It has 30 paras and the suras start with al-Fathia and end with Al-Naas
I have a feeling your history and knowledge of shias is very limited indeed…
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
Where in the quran does it say Muta is NOT allowed?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: Salaams to all
The Qur'an forbids any form of association between a man and a woman UNLESS legally married to each other permanently.
In the event one has NO MEANS to marry ** Allah (swt) had told us to KEEP chaste ** and NOT practice muta=zina (which amounts to fornication)
Read!
24:33 ** Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste until Allah gives them means out of His grace. ** And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) give them such a deed if ye know any good in them; yea give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them yet after such compulsion is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them).
The practice of Muta was a pagan hindu custom which was practiced in times of travel and war (away from home for long durations) in Arabia and was abolished by the Prophet (pbuh) as narrated by Ali (ra)
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 9.91 Narrated by Muhammad bin Ali
** 'Ali was told that Ibn 'Abbas did not see any harm in the Mut'a marriage. 'Ali said, "Allah's Apostle forbade the Mut'a marriage on the Day of the battle of Khaibar and he forbade the eating of donkey's meat." ** Some people said, "If one, by a tricky way, marries temporarily, his marriage is illegal." Others said, "The marriage is valid but its condition is illegal."
Those who still practice this are committing zina and may Allah (swt) open their eyes , to see that they are harming themselves, and their sisters for they have been misled by shaitan
Most of all stating a period of marriage as part of a marriage contract makes it illegal for marriages are made to last forever
(meaning a man and woman should marry each other in the hope that both will be united in heaven even)
[quote]
As far as I know the prophet used to allow the practise in his time and it was abolished by Umer.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; This is a misconception that our shia brothers and sisters keep repeating without knowledge. Muta was abolished by the Prophet (pbuh) and NOT by Umar (ra)
Read!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 7.50 Narrated by Ali
I said to Ibn 'Abbas, "During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al-Mut'a and the eating of donkey's meat."
Ibrahim says; The conditions for such marriage contracts are illegal and NO Muslim in his sound mind should enjoin it.
Allah (swt) knows best.
Was salaam
Ibrahim
"[Allah] forbids all indecent deeds, and evil and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition." (16:90)
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
** Is it just me or do you seek fun and games through this?**
[/quote]
I do islaah. If that is fun and games to you, you need a more intensive efforts.
[quote]
**I didnt say house of Ali did I? Why do you guys always think we link everything to him(A.S)????
The Ahle-bayt as I said are the true scources of guidance after the demise of our beloved propthet(A.S)so naturally we learned how to offer our prayers through them......**
[/quote]
Oops. You have a different meaning for ahle-bayt. Can you give it to us, please.
**
[quote]
take a look at this will you:
33:33
Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you through purifying.
The people of the house are pure and clean. meaning they do nothing wrong and cant sin.
If we follow these people's paths we are most probably gonna be on the right path!**
[/quote]
Will deal after we get your meaning of ahle-bayt.
**
[quote]
Unlike some reported Hadith of sahabas who arent even mentioned in quran as pure and flawless!**
[/quote]
You most be kidding. Let me list some ayat for you as you have apparently not understood them.
Surah Ale Imran
***110. Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. ....
Of those who answered the call of Allah and the Messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward;-
Men said to them: "A great army is gathering against you": And frightened them: But it (only) increased their Faith: They said: "For us Allah sufficeth, and He is the best disposer of affairs."
And they returned with Grace and bounty from Allah. no harm ever touched them: For they followed the good pleasure of Allah. And Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.***
Sura At Taubah
***79. Those who slander such of the believers as give themselves freely to (deeds of) charity, as well as such as can find nothing to give except the fruits of their labour,- and throw ridicule on them,- Allah will throw back their ridicule on them: and they shall have a grievous penalty.
But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.
Allah hath prepared for them gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein: that is the supreme felicity.***
Sura Al Nahl
110. But verily thy Lord,- to those who leave their homes after trials and persecutions,- and who thereafter strive and fight for the faith and patiently persevere,- Thy Lord, after all this is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Sura Al Hajj
***39. To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-
(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah.. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
(They are) those who, if We establish them in the land, establish regular prayer and give regular charity, enjoin the right and forbid wrong: with Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs.***
Want more?
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**
Ibrahim says; This is a misconception that our shia brothers and sisters keep repeating without knowledge. Muta was abolished by the Prophet (pbuh) and NOT by Umar (ra)
Read!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 7.50 Narrated by Ali
I said to Ibn 'Abbas, "During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al-Mut'a and the eating of donkey's meat."
Ibrahim says; The conditions for such marriage contracts are illegal and NO Muslim in his sound mind should enjoin it.
Allah (swt) knows best.
Was salaam
Ibrahim
"[Allah] forbids all indecent deeds, and evil and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition." (16:90)**
[/quote]
Do I have to bring up the the question of how true the sahis really are? Again?
As you guys say "Show me from quran" I'll ask just that.
Ideecent has a wealth of meaning, you know, and the verse doesnt even point towards the topic at hand......
Get me one from quran and I will belive it is wrong......
**
I do islaah. If that is fun and games to you, you need a more intensive efforts.**
With you loling at everything and rounding up our answers it does seem to me you are arguing just for the sake of arguing!
Oops. You have a different meaning for ahle-bayt. Can you give it to us, please.
Ahlul-bayt are the people of the prophet's house. Muhammed(PBUH), Ali(A.S), Fatema(A.S) and her offspring are considered a part of the ahlul-bayt. They spring most importantly from fatema(A.S) and Ali(A.S). Hazrat Ali's other offspring are not a part of Alul-bayt. That is what I ment by linking To Ali(a.s). as the Alulbayt is linked with the prophet and his daughter.
*Will deal after we get your meaning of ahle-bayt. *
You can begin dealing now.
**You most be kidding. Let me list some ayat for you as you have apparently not understood them.
Surah Ale Imran
110. Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. ....**
It doesnt say totally pure and sinless does it?
*172. Of those who answered the call of Allah and the Messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward;- *
again no mention of thier perfecness
*173. Men said to them: "A great army is gathering against you": And frightened them: But it (only) increased their Faith: They said: "For us Allah sufficeth, and He is the best disposer of affairs." *
Ok Ok praising them is fine(they were, after all the best of humans. But they were masoom as we say meaning they commited sins aswell)
174. And they returned with Grace and bounty from Allah. no harm ever touched them: For they followed the good pleasure of Allah. And Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded
harm didnt touch them but, what about shaitan?
Sura At Taubah 79. Those who slander such of the believers as give themselves freely to (deeds of) charity, as well as such as can find nothing to give except the fruits of their labour,- and throw ridicule on them,- Allah will throw back their ridicule on them: and they shall have a grievous penalty.
We dont hate all Sahabas. only the ones that went astray and didnt give the alul-bayt thier due rights!
Want more?
Yes please! Can you find one in which allah has made them sinless masoon?
Take this for starters......
63.1) When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Apostle, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
This truly means some pople embraced Islam but were fro the inside Munaafiq! And you call most of them sahabas!
(63.4) And when you see them, their persons will please you, and If they speak, you will listen to their speech; (they are) as if they were big pieces of wood clad with garments; they think every cry to be against them. They are the enemy, therefore beware of them; may Allah destroy them, whence are they turned back?
Here we are told that they will act pious and selflessly! But they are actually evil beings! So appearances can be deciving cant they? This proves that not all Sahabas were pure and true! Some had masks on while others were actually ture!
This proves not all Hadiths can be trusted as they are narrated from sahaba and you never know if that sahaba was a Munaafiq!
[This message has been edited by Shah Jahan (edited November 23, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
** 1. can you stop LOLing and find a point to debate?**
[/quote]
Can't help it. I have a good sense of humour and laugh at good jokes. If I am not debating on points with you what am I doing? Oh yes I am making fun and games, according to you.
**
[quote]
2.There was no sunni shia in the time of the prophet. Co we cant claim nor can you! What we (or you) can say is that we follow the true path.**
[/quote]
Good you have pointed out the flaw that I was trying to point out to our friend. Are you learning so fast, or did you know this?
**
[quote]
3. Technically according to quran, no. Whenever they are mentioned they are as 'wives of prophet' and not as ahlul-bayt! If you read the verse they are given a seprate section of it and the ahlul-bayt are given another one.**
[/quote]
Sorry, I did not get the definition I was looking for. I wanted a simple answer. When the Qur'an mentions ahle bayt for anybody or when we use the words house of so-and-so, what does that mean. Are we going to split hairs to try and prove an incorrect point. Surely, you don't want us to believe that while talking about the household of the Prophet (sallallaho alaihe wasallam) Allah has distinguished betweeen the wives (radhi Allaho ajmaeen) and something else (definition needed)? Ahle-bayt means the members of the household.
**
[quote]
4. Really?! put it there! I'm a Muslim too! Not a Shia but a Muslim! (are we different or the same?)(Abu ji leading prayers is another matter. one which I will discuss later)**
[/quote]
Good. So you are a Muslim. Very good, but what is point 5 then? And what is this abu ji...
**
[quote]
5. Our first Imam was Ali. So according to History he was the one with the prophet. Our second Imam was Ali's son, hassan. So our faith goes dirctly from the prophet to them!**
[/quote]
So what do you have to say about everything that happened between the death of Rasool Allah (sallallaho alaihe wasallam) and the khilafah of ALi (radhi Allaho anho). Some of our readers are not aware of what shiaism is. Please enlighten them on the concept of khilafat of the Rightly Guided Khlifas before Ali (radjhiaAllaho anhum). And, no taqiyyah please.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
** You mean there are 2 types of Quran!!**
[/quote]
According to shias. But apparently your imam and parents forgot to tell you. That is why shias do not become hafiz. They will learn in Karbala wwhen the one with 40 paras comes with Mehdi (alaihe salam).
**
[quote]
how many times do we have to clear this. The Quran was sent down to our prophet in this month. It hasnt changed scince!......It has 30 paras and the suras start with al-Fathia and end with Al-Naas**
[/quote]
We know this. Tell this in your imambarah.
**
[quote]
As far as history goes Hazrat Ali was the one who sorted out the quran with guidance from the prophet and not Othmaan!**
[/quote]
You got me confused again with the incorrect history. The first compilation was done in the time of Abu Bakr (radhi Allaho anho). Then, at the time of Othman (radhi Allahao anho) some confusion had entered due to the dialect, etc., of new Muslims, so all mushafs were gathered and checked. The confirmed ones were retained and the rest destroyed. Go and check this in correct history books. Don't ask your mama and your imam. They will not tell you the truth.
**
[quote]
I have a feeling your history and knowledge of shias is very limited indeed........**
[/quote]
Really. Check my posts and your own. I am the one teaching you your history and your beliefs.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.