Wicked women

Society Religion & Philosophy
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*… woman suffer from three deficiencies, of faith , of mind and share in heritage. Their deficiency in religion is apparent from the fact that at certain times they keep away from prayers and fastings, deficiency of mind could be gauged from the circumstance that two female witnesses are considered equal to one male, and deficiency in shares of heritage is plain from the incident that their share is equal to half of male members. Keep yourself away from the wiles of wicked woman … *

hmm … whats your opinion?

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^ thanks for the link

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"two female witnesses are considered equal to one male"

This isnt the case in all trial circumstances. People often misquote this, or rather, do not quote the whole of it. There is plenty of fiqh and hadith to back up what I am saying. sighz

I think people need to study things before coming out with such statements. smile (By the way this statement isnt against you, just a statement in general.)

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islam talks abt equality of males and females....

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somehow religen are biased agianst women

'Rig Veda' censures women by saying:

"Lord Indra himself has said that women has very little intelligence.
She cannot be thaught" - Rig Ved 8/33/17

At another place it is written:

"There cannot be any friendship with a women. Her heart is more cruel
than heyna" - Rig Ved 10/95/15.

'Yajur Ved (Taitriya Sanhita)'m- "Womns code says that the women are
withouth energy. They should not get a share in property. Even to the
wicked they speak in feeble manner" - Yajur Ved 6/5/8/2

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^
maybe hinduism is biased, Islam is not....

its not deficiency of faith that keeps women from prayers and fasting, but it is the strength of faith and submission to the will of God that they do not think its degratory for them to keep away from them during the periods....

and its the feminine nature to be nervous, and not the lack of mind that makes a man equal to two women witnesses under special circumstances (as mentioned above by someone)....

and its not inequality that gives them the lesser share in heritage but the fact that men have to support their wives and children as well, so can use such extras, but women r already cared for by their husbands/brothers so dont need so much share....

nonetheless, whoever wrote the comments, he hsud be ashamed of himself for portraying such a distorted image of women's rights in Islam....

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armughal, is this your 'islam'??

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 30:
Narrated Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the women, the house and the horse.'

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 31:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet: The Prophet said, "If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse."

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 32:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

Allah's Apostle said, "If at all there is bad omen, it is in the horse, the woman, and the house."

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:
Narrated Usama bin Zaid:

The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

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This happens when you blindly start following hadith.. See the proper context.. consult Quran.. Hadith can’t possibly go against Quran..

There are countless other ahadith saying that women are blessing of Allah.. virtues of Pious women.. importance of mothers.. the rights of wives.. and women in society in general..

Islam does not believe in omens of any kind.. So it someone narrates omens like this from the Prophet :saw: he (the narrator must have been mistaken..

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dude it's form "Sahih Bukhari"..... you 're saying Bukhari exhibited poor scholarship when he authenticated this one?? where else could he have gone wrong?? can we even trust what's in this Book???

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It does not matter if it is Bukhari.. I can't believe in any narration which goes against Quran.. Bukhari is not perfect.. Imam Bukhari accepted it.. And then there are different grades in HAdith.. Sahih, ghareeb, zaeef ... etc

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it's from the Sahih collection so it's a Sahih hadith... Sunnis live by these Sahih hadiths.. that's their madhab.... you cannot selectively deny or accept them just because they are embarrassing and harmful to your stance.. pretending to give women rights and respecting them.. bah..

These hadiths have been 'verified' by the same person.. you either doubt EVERYTHING the author 'verified' or you accept it as a whole.. the so called 'science' of verification does just that.. if the person is unreliable.. he's unreliable.. if with these hadiths Bukhari appears to be unreliable.. reject anything and everything he considers true.. or accept that the kinda Islam you follow does consider women 'wicked'.

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LOL!! PA that is such a low shot I dont even know where to begin :stuck_out_tongue: Really expected better.. dare i say that you’re getting rusty??

The Quran mentions that in our kids and in our progeny is a ‘trial’ for us. The Quran also mentions the trials which people were afflicted with. Read carefully:

5:41 “If any one’s trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah’s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment” (context)

So since when a trial is intented by Allah, it is because Allah does not wish to purify their hearts.. and kids fall under the same category?!

Ofcourse not, and this is the error you’ve fallen into. Now, with a clear and open mind read those ahadith again, what other things are mentioned?? A house, and a horse… material possessions which can make a man forget his duty to Allah.

The Arabs my friend were simple people. There are often examples when someone would marry a women just for her beauty and not for her religious beliefs. So the Prophet tells them that in women is a bad omen. (you pick a bad women, it can easily affect your deen) What is the concluding point? That all these things (women, horses, houses etc) are bad for us if we let them lead us away from our deen.

Dude, try to evaluate hadith with respect to the times they came in. Their wordings, especially the translations can give a very wrong idea when taken out of context.

In other places, this becomes even clearer when the Prophet mentions that our mothers have the most right to recieve our companionship/kindness. That women get a reward equal to men even if they dont go on jihad/pray in congregation etc. That women are the other halves of men.

Anyhow, i’m assuming thats enough clarification, and i’m hoping you wont pick out random ahadith to play with and use as wanted next time?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
it's from the Sahih collection so it's a Sahih hadith... Sunnis live by these Sahih hadiths.. that's their madhab.... you cannot selectively deny or accept them just because they are embarrassing and harmful to your stance.. pretending to give women rights and respecting them.. bah..

These hadiths have been 'verified' by the same person.. you either doubt EVERYTHING the author 'verified' or you accept it as a whole.. the so called 'science' of verification does just that.. if the person is unreliable.. he's unreliable.. if with these hadiths Bukhari appears to be unreliable.. reject anything and everything he considers true.. or accept that the kinda Islam you follow does consider women 'wicked'.
[/QUOTE]

Wrong perception dude.. not all ahadith in the 'saheehayn' are considered saheeh. Thats what the author decided to name them, and not all scholars agree. Infact, the ahadith in the saheeh books can definitely have ahadith which are daeef/incorrect.

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well my apologies ammarr, i've not been following the Journal of Scientific Islamic Religious Research to know what currently passes as authentic when it comes to Sahih..

so what does the latest 'research' say.. are the above 'Sahih' or acceptible or not???

and while you're at it please also tell us about the hadith below.. do take any random verse from the Qur'an which doesn't even address the issue then add your own commentary and finally declare a point proven .. thank you.

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 114:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not hurt (trouble) his neighbor. And I advise you to take care of the women, for they are created from a rib and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part; if you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked, so I urge you to take care of the women."

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ok ammarr i couldn' resist.. seriously.. why have you quoted 5:41??? how on earth does that relate to women being a bad omen like a horse and a house???

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PA,

to consult which ahadith are sahih or not, refer to a scholar. I merely wished to point out that not all ahadith are saheeh and you cant pick and choose at random. :slight_smile:

Yes I was trying to do exactly what you were doing :smiley: I’m good at it right?

I will say it again. The arabs were SIMPLE PEOPLE! The Prophet explained things to them in metaphors. If some guy saw something incorrect in his wife, they would try to beat them, thinking of it as their RIGHT. Here the Prophet :saw: is trying to explain that if you see something ‘crooked’ in your women, then dont try to straighten it forcefully, or it’ll break!! And if you leave it completely, then it’ll get even more crooked. So you try to correct it with kindness.

Oh man, the out-of-context quotation of ahadith is reaching new heights today. Are we aiming for a new world record or something PA??? :slight_smile:

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5:41 states that when Allah intends to pass someone through a trial, for those people, Allah does not wish to purify their hearts. And for them is a disgrace in the hereafter and a heavy punishment. RIGHT???

At other places we see that in our children is a TRIAL FOR US. Does this mean that through our children Allah wishes to disgrace us?? NO!! It simply means that if we get too involved in our material posessions (such as our children, or our wealth) they CAN lead us away from our path and hence become a trial, right?

The ahadith you quoted talk about the same issue. That women can easily be a trial for us (or a bad omen). I know i’ll be asking for too much, but do read that reply AGAIN and you might understand what I meant a little better.

Anyhow i’m off for today, dont you dare disappoint me by not coming here again with more misconceptions and out of place ahadith ok? :nono:

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I got to agree with PA.

The Hadith he mentions are ‘weird’ to say the least.

Strange that according to ammarr this Hadith ought to be put into the ‘right perspective’ and context etc, whereas most other Hadith are to be taken literally (like using miswak etc ---------> y not put this into perspective and agree that the main point of this Hadith is to clean ur teeth and NOT the usage of miswak?)

eary…:konfused:

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well you tried hard ammarr at least i'll give you that.. you made no sense.. but that's nothing new.. when I post hadiths which are downright outrageous, you guys go " oh but it's weak" .. "oh it's not authenticated" . "oh but look at the 'context'"..

what 'context'??? this is not the Qur'an.. these are just narrations someone collected and branded to be the word of the Prophet.

You then fill pages creating the 'contexts' on the fly.. using whatever unrelated verses or historical trivia ..

The whole hadith corpse as such then, according to your explanations, is bound to that particular century and hence should be ceremoniously buried and we, as Muslims should move on.. cuz afterall.. it was the Arabs who were "simple people".. and needed all those lectures with these metaphors..

Now if someone were to open the chapter on Qur'anic challenges to the Arabs to "bring a surah like it" .. everyone will start shouting that the Arabs were "very advanced people' who had a rich culture and history and had written numerous books and were masters of poetry and hence language.. and so forth..

see how your 'context' just gathered dust here.. that's what happens when you just create things out of thin air to defend absurd statements that pass as Prophetic narrations.. why don't you just admit that what's written was incorrect and couldn't be a Prophetic statement.. you wouldn't even come forward and help our readers determine whether it's Sahih or not.. why should i go ask a mufti anytime I read Bukhari?? isn't he suposed to be 'Sahih'..

man you sectarians give me a headache with your going around in circles...