Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
. Had the American's been fighting the Germans alone, they would have been bogged down forever like they were in Vietnam.
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Had there been no war on the eastern front the western allied beachheads would not have survived more than 24hrs.Remember that roughly 2/3 of luftwaffe units were deployed against the soviets.Germans in Normandy fought virtually without aircover and even then gave such a good account of themselves
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
58,000 Americans were killed in vietnam but they also killed over 3,000,000 VC, NVA troops…
US forces were indeed chased back to the 38th parallel by Chinese and NK forces and indeed they even took Seoul.. But USA fought back and chases the chinese all the way back to the 38th paralle. China had lost over 1,000,000 men in this war and over 2,000,000 were wounded. China simply did not have any more trained men to fight in Korea. Russia, who was giving weapons to China and NK wanted the war to end since the biggest backer of the war, Stalin, had died. So the war ended.
As for casualties:
37,000 Americans died, 1,000,000 Chinese died, 3,000,000 Koreans died.
Please don’t challenge me on history… 
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Mr. Fret, where was Pakistan's victory parade after the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan?
Actually, fret, in regards to somalia, there were 4000-5000 armed militia in the city. After the battle, the militia no longer had any ammo, they all ran away from the city.
100 US troops killed over 1,000 Militias and only suffered 18 deaths in the process..
If Pakistani troops were bogged down in Somalia and they killed 1,000 militias and only suffered 18 deaths, you would be here praising the heroic stance that Pakistan took....
So give it a rest... you tried and you failed to convince me
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Actually, Das Reich...
Germany had 90% of all its forces in the Eastern Front....
By June 1944, the 17th Army, the 9th Army, 3 SS Divisions, 2 Hitler youth divisions, and Kesselring's 200,000 forces in Italy were all the troops that Hitler had in Western Europe....
The Soviet Union was a massive meat grinder which destroyed the German Military...
If the Germany had never invaded the Soviet Union...
Then the war in europe would probably have gone nuclear....
The allies could not have invaded in June 1944.... and by july 1945, USA had the bomb...but since the German luftwaffe was not tied up in Russia, then they could have inflicted heavy lossess on American bombers, so Germany itself could have build a nuclear weapon....
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
I don't need to take a geo lesson... Its common sense...
When the NK launced their offensive, MacArthur invaded Inchon and outflanked the NK...
He persued them all the way to the Yalu River, where Truman had said to MacArthur not to cross it.
China after being armed with the Soviet Union had massed 600,000 trooops and invaded....
They pushed the Americans back across the parallel and re-took Seoul...
MacArthur was releived of duty, the new American general re-organized the american forces and they launched a massive counter-attack which pushed the chinese back across the parallel....
china had now been exhausted...
it had lost over 1 million men and 2 million wounded, and russia wanted the war to end...
so china negotiated a cease fire because USA was preparing to launch a massive counter-offensive...
please read a little history before you make such bombastic claims.....
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
America killed 3 million Korean civilians, and then 3 million Vietnamese. I’m afraid your history is very weak.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
And moreover, our quack historian seems to believe that body count determines victory.
In that vein, afghans sure did lose the war with the Soviets.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
In that vein, afghans sure did lose the war with the Soviets.
oho yaar, Russia took the forces out, Russia and America both won the war, you see.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
[quote]
Germany had 90% of all its forces in the Eastern Front....
By June 1944, the 17th Army, the 9th Army, 3 SS Divisions, 2 Hitler youth divisions, and Kesselring's 200,000 forces in Italy were all the troops that Hitler had in Western Europe....
The Soviet Union was a massive meat grinder which destroyed the German Military...
Offcourse as far as ground forces are concerned 90% were in east.....but luftwaffe had other commitments too in the Med. and defence of the reich
about 1/3 was committed here.Propotionally less of the army units were involved there.
[quote]
If the Germany had never invaded the Soviet Union...
[/quote]
My belief is stalin would have invaded after completing the reforms in the red army, actually this would have been beneficial for the germans in the longterm since the War showed that the germans used their armor and infantry very skilfully in defense.And the morale of the russian soldier has never been very high on foreign soil.Most of these assaults would have been blunted and who knows maybe another revolution would have taken place.Also the germans would not have alienated the ukranians and they might have helped too.( Much more than what they actually did)
[quote]
Then the war in europe would probably have gone nuclear....
The allies could not have invaded in June 1944.... and by july 1945, USA had the bomb...
[/quote]
without the german scientists I dont know .....maybe you know more about this
[quote]
but since the German luftwaffe was not tied up in Russia, then they could have inflicted heavy lossess on American bombers, so Germany itself could have build a nuclear weapon
[/quote]
Agreed, infact the obsession the germans had with "wonder weapons"( like Paris gun,big berthas) I can bet they would have developed it first.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
sigh, as usual, you avoid the question. You’re not convincible because your views are so messed up. The question was in regards to Vietnam. Where was the US victory parade if the US won the war? The fact is, that the US got their ass kicked and humiliated beyond belief. The fact that you think otherwise, is reason enough not to take you seriously. Then again, when do I ever take a joke seriously… 
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
I am no big fan of US but
It has to be said that the US fought a war with conventional weapons and tactics against a highly unconventional enemy.
In addition to that US airpower was not given the choice of selecting targets and even their fighter pilots were for the most part handicapped by restrictions placed on them.While the NV pilots were fighting under conditions tailormade for them.Neither the politician nor the military were sure of the objectives in this war
and to say Vietnam did this all alone is a huge exaggeration.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
3 million korean and vietnamese civilians killed...
so every korean/vietnamese killed by an american becomes a civilian...
LOL:)
The pathetic nature of muslims trying to rewrite history never ceases to amaze me
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
LOL… I did answer the question and in great detail but perhaps you reasoning capacity cannot understand the complex nature of the answer.. :halo:
USA accomplished its objectives in Vietnam…
Its objectives was to stop the spread of communism in south east asia, to counter the domino effect and make South Vietnam strong enough to resist communist aggression…
From 1964-1968 USA destroyed the Viet Cong. The coup de gra came in Tet offensive in which 100,000 Viet Cong were killed. After the catastrophic defeat, the North Vietnamese were brought to the negotiation table. Nothing came of it. So after the destruction of VC, NVA (north vietnamese army) then resumed attacks on South Vietnam.
Since the gureilla forces were destroyed. USA decides to vietnamese the conflict. Training the SVA(south vietnamese army) to resist the NVA. In 1970 and 1972, two major offensives were launced by NVA and both were beaten back. USA now assumed that SVA was now strong enough to fight the NVA on its own. All US ground forces left Vietnam by March 1973.
In 1973 incursions by NVA were beaten back but SVA lost 50,000 men while they inflicted over 100,000 losses on NVA.
The NVA had a larger population base than the SVA 16 million people. They were able to rebuild their forces while rampant corruption, Oil crisis of 1973 due to Yom Kippur War, no more massive US economic adi to SVA reduced their fighting potential.
Many SVA generals sold out their units to NVA for money.
By 1975, NVA launched a major offensive. Their aim was to re-take Saigon by 1977. They accomplished that in less than two months.
So it wasn’t an American defeat in Vietnam but rather SVA corruption in the highest level of political and military establishment that doomed South Vietnam.
If a country is corrupt, no amounts of US aid can save it.
And by the way, stop relying on the Vietnamese to get your kicks about America.
How desperate are you that only way to redeem yourself is to rely on the Vietnamese…
Maybe you should start a topic on how the Sultanate of Tripoli in 1787 fought a war with USA and how bravely they resisted the Americans…
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Captain1, I expected more from you...
Its sad to see you dwell in such sarcasm which does nothing but malign your reputation
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Ya you don’t need a geo lesson coz for that common sense is THE minimum requirement…
When you figure out who told the terrorist not to cross the 38 parallel or get raped then come down and waste bandwidth..
Until then see if you can retrieve USS Pubelo…NO… I hear that it rests in peace where terrorist dare not make a pigs squeak… LOL…
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
When you figure out who told the terrorist not to cross the 38 parallel or get raped then come down and waste bandwidth..
Until then see if you can retrieve USS Pubelo...NO..... I hear that it rests in peace where terrorist dare not make a pigs squeak... LOL....
Sad to see Senior Members of gupshup dwell in such utter nonsense. If its junior members like Fret Wizard or Prince Abbas repeating their tired rhetoric then its understandable
It doesnt speak highly of gupshup as a forum for educated pakistanis to debate :(
No other military forum I have been to, where senior members use this kind of language...
This really makes me sad that Pakistan has such a long way to go to catch up the rest of the world
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
so every korean/vietnamese killed by an american becomes a civilian...
LOL:)
The pathetic nature of muslims trying to rewrite history never ceases to amaze me
So every Korean and vietnamese killed by an American is automaticaly a hostile?
It doesn't work either way.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Give it up Kid. No need to write a book for such a simple question. I don’t need Vietnam to get my kicks about America, I think Vietnam kicked America enough. I rely on Vietnam, because that was the funniest of your series of funny statements. Since you have attention deficit disorder, let me ask my question again. If the US won the Vietnam war, where was the victory parade, besides being in your fantasies? I think most of the John Rambos who fought in Vietnam would disagree with you.
…America won the Vietnam war… 
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
What movie is this from? Is done by the same director that did “US Victory in Vietnam”?
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Every now and then, a kid like you comes along, and provides a whole lot of entertainment to an otherwise boring forum. Keep it up genius! :k: