Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
China is doing very well (it does have over 200 million people unemployed mind you), I'm not stating that you need a U.S. invasion to be successful. Look at Dubai! I'm simply stating that a U.S. loss does not mean that the country where the defeat took place won, not on the spectrum I'm looking through.
You can't start quoting George W. Bush, it's not allowed.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Yup, China is doing very well - it has brought 300 million out of poverty in recent years.
At least you agree that America has lost so many wars since 1945.
What wars has it actually won since 1945? I'll concede you won in Grenada and Panama. :)
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
did you read my post a few above??
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
^
Defeat is defeat however you couch it. Though it does lead to endless Hollywood cry baby movies.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Great, thanks for the discussion.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
I think the starter of this thread is missing the point between battles and war..
US won most of the wars,
Only borderline case is Vietnam, They still weren't defeated. Yes they withdrew since objectives weren't achieved...
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Sure US was not defeated in Vietnam/NK they just ran with their tail between their legs.. Better then surrender EH!!!
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
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It wasn't a defeat. China started peace talks with USA after USA threatened to launch a massive offensive in 1953. Both sides agreed to restore the borders before the war began.
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It wasn't a victory either. It was a stalemate. US won the political victory. North Korea is a shiithole.
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This might come as a surprise but Vietnam wasn't a defeat. USA stayed in Vietnam from 1964-1973. From 1964-1968 after the Tet offensive. USA destroyed the Viet Cong. In 1972, North Vietnamese Army (NVA) launched a major offensive to invade South Vietnam. USA beat that back too. USA had high casualties in Vietnam so decided to pull back and make South vietnamese army able to defend it self.
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Pictures say a thousand words. See below
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The two helicopters collided with each other. Iran had nothing to do with it. So it wasn't really a military defeat, it was an accicdent.
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True.
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They were blown up by the terrorist group Hezbollah while they were trying to stabilize the country after the Israeli invasion in June 1982. But I guess these kinds of tactics are lionized by some.
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Definition of terrorism according to CIA
The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):
—The term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.
marines are not non-combatants. But the US was not at war with the lebanese, so technically it's neither.
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It was 100 American soldiers fighting over 3,000 Somalis. Americans managed to kill over a 1000 of them until they were rescued by the Pakistanis. These somali animals also killed Pakistani soliders so I don't know why are you making these animals into heroes.
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Doesn't matter We lost. However, if you wanna piss the anti-americans here, google Panama, grenada and Dominican Republic. The first gulf war was a win for both US and for Iran (thanks to US, the Iran-Iraq conflict that started in 1980 was ended with Iran emerging as the clear winner)
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USA maybe bogged down in Iraq. But whenever the Insurgent confront the US soldiers they get annhiliated. USA may have lost 2,500 troops but in the same time they have killed around 25,000 Insurgents
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Too early to tell for either Afghanistan or Iraq. Time will tell.
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You obviously don't know anything about modern world history. Your comments sound like typical Islamic conspiracy theories.
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Neither does anyone, and that includes you, too.
Caption: Soldiers of the North Vietnam Army enter the Presidential Palace in Saigon. Hours earlier the last US troops scrambled aboard the final helicopters to leave the US Embassy in Saigon.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Secondly, where did they original poster glorify the Somali's as war heroes?
World War II:
USA entered the War in 1941. It build up its forces, deploying the bulk of its navy and marines to fight Japan while the bulk of its Army to fight Germany. It invaded North Africa in November 1942, and Italy in July 1943 and France in June 1944. Germany deployed 90% of all of its forces to fight the Russians and 10% to fight the allies.
In June 1944, 5,500,000 Germans were deployed against the Russians, 200,000 were in Italy and 400,000 were in France.
By August 1944, the allies defeated the germans in France. In December 1944, the Germans launched a counter attack with 500,000 troops but failed to break through to the Antwerpn. Allies crossed the rhine in March 1945. So overall, 10% of all German casualties came fighting the Allies and rest was fighting the Russians. But USA did give a lot of materials and support to the Russians. All of Russian trucks were American stoudabaker trucks, etc...
As for Japan, 40% of the entire Japanese military were its Naval and Marine forces which the USA had destroyed by July 1945. Japan had transferred 2 million troops from China to meet the Americans for the invasion of Japan in October 1945. Russia destroyed another 40% of Japanese troops in August 1945.
So overall, the bulk of fighting done in WWII was done by Russians and Chinese only because they were connected by land to the enemy and USA joined the War late and needed time to build up its forces but it did give a lot of material support to both Russia and China.
Korea:
NK invades SK in June 1950. USA sends troops from Japan and defeats the NK troops and drive them across the Yalu River. China attacks with 600,000 men and pushes the Americans back, American regroups and then launch a counter-attack at which the fighting is near the pre-war border area. China has lost 1 million men and Russia wants to conclude the war because Stalin has died. China sends a peace envoy to start neogtiations. Chinese make outrageous demands. General Mark Clark shows the Chinese diplomat the US firepower being readied for a massive offensive in 1953. Chinese diplomat decides to american terms of the cease fire.
Vietnam:
USA got involved in Vietnam in 1956 after the french defeat at Dien Bien Phu. NV(north vietnamese) infiltration into SV, increases. USA sends ground troops. 1964-1968, USA annhiliates the VC. After Tet offensive failed in december 1968, VC are no longer a fighting force. NVA(North vietnamese Army) are now used to fight SVA(South Vietnamese Army) and USA. From 1968-1973, Nixon Vietnameses the conflict. USA and SVA defeat the NVA in their 1972 offensive. All American ground troops leave Vietnam in March 1973. Their mission was accomplished. They had trained the SVA to hold their own against the NVA and they did. SVA lost 50,000 men in 1973 but they held their ground and they killed over 100,000 NVA troops.
But North Vietnam had a larger population. Many South Vietnamese Gererals were corrupt and sold out the Army for money. In 1975, NVA launched a massive offensive against Sout Vietnam. The Army collapsed and tanks rolled into Saigon in april 1975. So this wasn't an American military defeat but a US policy defeat and even that is debatable.
USA won every encounter. Defeated every military offensive and trained and armed the South Vietnamese Army which held its own in 1973. But rampant corruption destroyed the South Vietnamese Army potential. USA was not going to send more ground troops into Vietnam in 1975 after Nixon had resigned and Ford who didn't want to send more American soldiers to Vietnam.
Lebanon:
A bunch of terrorist thugs blow up a military barracks killing US Marines who were send there to help the lebanese people rebuild their country. After 1983, what followed was 6 years of bloody warfare. Congrats to Hezbollah for causing the deaths of over 20,000 people who could have been saved if they didn't blow up the American barracks and the marines would have stayed and helped.
Iran:
As for that failed helicopter resuce. that was an accicdent. Are you actually going to say that Iran's military had something to do with that?
Somalia:
USA managed to kill over a 1,000 Somalis for the loss of 18 soldiers while facing a force of 3,000. and you call that a defeat?
Iraq II:
As for the current war. Insurgents are being killed at a rate of over 100 a day. Daily bombing campaign by insurgents has fallen each year. From a high of 100 in 2004, to 75 in 2005 to only 25 in 2006. What has happened is that they have attacked shias and now the sectarian violence deathtoll has climbed. Continued crackdown will render the insurgency nothing more than a Mafia organization trying to whack someone. The Insurgency is losing and will lose. The Iraqi Army is being trained and getting better each day. Unlike Vietnam there is no China or Soviet Union or ho chi mihn trail in which these people can get support. The insurgency has maybe about 2 years to go before its wiped out.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Pictures say a thousand words. See below
Dude all us troops pulled out in march 1973, after SVA forces demonstrated they can hold their own agaisnt the NVA. Rampant corruption lead to the downfall of the SV government. NVA planned a 2-3 year campaign in to defeat the SVA. The South Vietnam fell in 2 months. that was the level of corruption
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Don't you just love the anti-US bunch? Dig up the conflicts that suit their purposes and then try to exploit them. The reality today is that the US is unrivaled in military power. The only barrier to that power is the political will of the American people.
Funny, today Putin was congratulating the US on the creation of our "Fortress". (his words). The US spends 25 times as much as Russia on the military. The reason we can do that of course is that we have built the most successful economic engine in the history of the world.
So belittle our history all you want, it does not change todays reality one whit...
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Funny, today Putin was congratulating the US on the creation of our "Fortress". (his words). The US spends 25 times as much as Russia on the military. The reason we can do that of course is that we have built the most successful economic engine in the history of the world.
So belittle our history all you want, it does not change todays reality one whit...
yo ohioguy, r u a pakistani-american?
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
^ Pakora almost converted him.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
See for yourself.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=4063281&postcount=8
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
You have right to your opinion.... Though yes this one war wasn't good to Americans and they have courage and conviction to accept it..
They have society that can show this on TV and manage it........
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Its called “a bitter pill” that amreekans are trying to sugar coat for last 50/60 years… BTW the distance between Yalu river and the 38 is 500 miles…LOL…
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
yes and the americans pushed the north koreasn all the way from the southern coast of korea to the yalu river
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
Mercenary, tell me. Where was the US victory parade after Vietnam? As for Somalia, you keep mentioning that they killed more people than the Somalis did. Is killing 1000 civilians with guns anything to boast about? Body count means sqaut. The fact that they were rescued (key word) by the Pakistan's is reason enough to say that they were defeated. If they were all fine and dandy, why would they need to be resuced?
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
58,000 US soldiers were killed in the Vietnam war. How many were killed in the Korean war?
US forces were chased back to the 38th parallel by Chinese and N Korean forces, hence the war ended in a stalemate, and the American army remains there to this day.
Re: Why so many American military defeats/humiliations since 1945?
LOL, take geography lessons and fast… What next Amreeka hauled USS Publo all they way to Yalu river and Ho Chi Minh ran with his tail between his legs all the way to Hanoi… 