Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
and can some name me all of them
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
Because desi muslims love imitating the hindu caste system 
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
This has more to do with one's lineage and even perhaps the ethnic background than with religion.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
More pronounced in Punjab then other areas of Pakistan...
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
These are casts / groups / qabeela. Every cast has unique qualities, norms, values etc etc. You can find them in old Arab culture as well, Quresh, Hashmi etc, this not just an evil from Indian culture.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
the described “castes” are not the Hindu varna system. the jati system is no different from the concepts of scottish clans, african tribes, etc.
it can be found in virtually every society.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
imitate?
ahhh desi musilms are all decendents of the hindu caste system…
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
Ideally now that we’re Muslim they should only be took as familynames/surnames/clans/tribes and there shouldn’t be any concept of superiority or inferiority by birth but because Desi Muslims were once Hindu they carried on the concept of high-caste/low caste even after embracing Islam, despite it being against the equality preached by Islam.
Some of the tribes already had a place in the Hindu caste system, the Rajputs/Rajas for example were Kshatriyas (royalty/warriors) and were considered second best to the Brahmins (priests), then there’s the Jatts, Lauhars, Mochis who were Vaisyas and were considered middleish, the present-day Kami-Kameen would have been considered Sudars and the Choorrey would have been right at the bottom as untouchables.
Then there’s others like Sayyeds, Shahs and Khans who claim to belong to foreign families who settled in South Asia, more often than not these people were low caste Hindus but to escape the discrimination of the caste system they started claiming foreign descent, it’s only very rare that such claims are genuine and even then they’ve had far too much Indian mixed into them for it to make any difference.
Like ethnic differences were not bad enough, we’ve also the caste system to deal with... there's one thing I love about western society and it's peoples surnames or family past are not even given a second glance, it’s who you are as an individual and what you are today that matters, you’re not tied to what your ancestors were a thousand years ago and that’s the way it should be Islamically, and there’s us who claim to be Muslim yet discriminate.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
if i sit down and make a family tree it would go back all the way to Adam and eve......
Allah made syeds, khans, rajput, arian, awan and all others with same matti
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
ummm no…not really. The reason hindus converted readily to islam was to escape this caste system and because islam is in theory an egalitarian religion which states that every human is equal to another regardless of color, race , etc…so technically this concept of ‘zaat’ or jati had been eradicated as soon as they converted.
but humans are such complicated creatures. they accepted islam as a religion but found it hard to let go of certain cultural practices that they had followed all their lives e.g wedding rituals (the singing dancing, mayoo rasams, wearing red on wedding and green on valima, yellow on mehndi etc etc), and the jati concept somehow did make it into their lives.
I guess people like to make themselves look ‘different’ from others by categorizing. be it based on somewhere u were born(e.g punjabis, sindhis etc), a common leader, or a common trade (e.g banyaas).
as far as i know “zaat” like rajput etc is not such a big deal in pakistan, in terms of socializing and marriage etc. I have met only a handful of people who will not marry outside their “zaat”.
so it is correct that they have it instilled in their minds but using the word ‘descendant of hindu caste system’ because there are major differences in what the rigid rules of the caste system are and the menial importance of ‘zaat’ in desi muslims…
now if u’re talking punjabi vs pathan vs sindhi or shia vs sunni its a whole different ball game 
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
The classification in clans and biradaries has roots in "struggle" for survival. There are multifaceted reasons for a segmented i.e. a biradari-based organization of society. However, the fundamenal reasons may be biological, psychological, and economic. Social and political reasons are secondary factors.
But thinking deeply, it appears that when there is abundance of resources for sustenance, groups and clans tend to disintegrate. But in the situation of resource-scarcity, group becomes an instrument to compete for and maintain control over resources.
As for disparity in the social status of various clans and biradaris, dominant clans try to retain power, authority, and control over resources by emphasizing clan-cohesion, membership, and (clan)allegiance. They ensure this by imposing in-group marriages.
Later on this topic.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
desi muslims also love imitating Kafir caste systems like Hashim, Qureshis etc !!!
Those tribes were kafirs not muslism.. muslims just converted but retained the tribes.. If Allah had wanted to get rid of all tribes , castes muslims would had been ordered to give away them but were not.. Quran also says u are born in clans, groups so that u can be known but not a sign of some superiority..
So asa cultural thing muslims around teh world are found in clans, tribes, castes etc.. its just a way of knowing .. hindu castes are just painful to some as Mad_scientist since they r from hindus..
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
These sub groups are hard coded in the human brain. The more ignorant and jahil people are, the more stock they put in ethnicity, tribe or biradiri, or whatever else you might call it. If you go to any half civilized part of the world, forget about tribe, biraderi\family, most goras do'nt even know what country there ancestors are from
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
Caste and tribe are very different.
In the caste system your status (superior/inferior) in respect to other castes is hereditary, you’re stuck to a certain type of profession for life, and there are social barriers and endogamy enforced on each caste by their religion.
The tribal system which Islam condones is different, tribes are just like families and tribe/clan names are equivalent to familynames.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
True. :k:
It’s usally dirt poor, ugly, uneducated-donkey people who don’t have the salahiyat to achieve anything in life hold onto things like caste and ethnicity to make themselves feel better, nobody else gives a toss.
What we need to do in our country is ban the caste system alltogether and surnames should be after a paternal forefather instead of caste.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
because humans like to belong. Its natural for survival. Its an identity, an unless its used as a tool to oppress, there is nothing wrong with it. It brings diversity and is part of who your are, just like being 'pakistani' is part of you too.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
People converted to Islam but retained their affiliations with their distinct groups not only for a sense of identity and pride but also for practical purposes such as for business and marriage. You look for more than a person's proclaimed "faith" in making decisions related to business and marriage. Decisions based on these cultural distinctions are almost universal in all traditional Muslim societies, be they Arab, Irani, or Pakistani.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
Yet they are signs of Jahiliyah. Ethnic background and lineage is all good, but when the caste system starts dictating that one is better than the other; for eg. Rajputs are better than Gujjars, or a Gujjar dad will not let his kid get married to a son of a Jatt, thats just plane Jahiliyah.
This is one of the reasons, of why we are still struggling. Desis in the subcontinent are still clinging on to many of the Jahiliyah customs and practices.
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
Instead of labeling the tribal system outrightly, we should pay attention to the circumstances that necessitate it.
All societies are tribal before their mode of production change from cattle-herding and primitive agriculture to advanced, extenensive, and large-scale agriculture with a surpless of "produce". To protect this surplus and the resource (here agricultural land) it comes from, an organized and permanent army and a leader is needed. Tribal social structure cannot fulfil this need and so it disintegrates giving birth to a feudal society. The feudal society ultimately gives rise to fiefdom and kingdoms.
Caste system is a characteristic of feudal and agrarian society where it is used as basis of distribution of work. The powerful people assign themselves the superior jobs i.e. martial profession, the management and administration of society, the seting up of rules, law, and ethics-and the interpretation of the deeper meanings of life. The weaker is assigned the menial work i.e. carpenting, cobbling, farmering, etc. Usually, three classes emerge:
A class of warriors, rulers, leaders who perform military service, provides political leadership, administers the society, define rules of governance, and decides and dictates who would do what. This class has brute power and therefore has control of resources (often land for agriculture).
A class of priests emerge who "pretend" to be knowledgeful about the deeper meanings of life e.g. where we came from, what is the purpose of life, what is our destiny, etc. The class "preaches" "moral values" to the rest, often poor and defines standards for good and bad conduct. This class claims to have sanction from supernatural forces. This class therefore has devine power. It has profound influence on the masses and control their mind.
A class of weak people who do the menial jobs. This class doesn't have power and so doesn't have the resources (often the land).
The class of warriors/rulers/adminstrators and the class of priests have resources and power. They therefore are forces of the status-quo. In order to perpetuate their control over resources and people, they use "brute-force" as well as the claim of "divine-sanction" from the "super-natural". The create a myth that the division of society in classes is natural, according to will of God, and permanent----that is certain races have been "genetically tailored" to be warriors, rulers, adminstrators, mangers, God's chosen people, etc. And so the cast system continues to be socially and "religiously" accepted fact and a fate.
Tribal society is bit different. It usauuly evolves in an environment where there is little land for agriculture. Because of limited land, there cannot be surpless produce and maintenance of a permanent and organized army is not feasible. In such a society, your share in limited resources (land, water, pastures for cattle grazing) depends on two things.
- The numeric strength of your blood relatives, and
- the cohesion among them
The close blood relatives become organized as a tribe. The tribe is not only necessary to claim share in resources but also to hold onto already-owned resources. But such society usually doesn't have a class-based system. Members are usaully on equal level and one tribe has supremacy over another tribe only when it has a greater numeric strength and more cohesion. But in a tribal society it is possible for a weaker tribe to balance the supremacy of numerically powerful tribe through inter-tribal alliance (remember there is no organized army).
Re: Why r ppl classified into Syeds, Rajputs..
good stuff!