Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
I can understand that. Its the opposite in my case my mother is Pashtun, and i don't like my maternal relatives. Though the immediate family is nice the second cousins are the typical Naswar eating. I hardly ever meet them. And yes they are Racist to the bones.
To call Pashtuns "naswar eating" is totally uncalled for, it's like me saying all Punjabis eat daal all the time.
But no denying the truth, yes they can be racist and arrogant which is really annoying because you wouldn't look twice at some of them.. I'll tell you what though, I think Punjabis are well sexy, Pathans just don't have any sexiness or spice about them and my dad wants the family to go back and settle in his village which means I'd be sexually starved..
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
The only Turkish thing about Urdu is its name which comes from the Turkish word Ordu (lashkar/horde).
You’ve just been looking at too much IstanB… .Com that’s why Turkish is on your mind, haven’t you you naughty boy?
Putting foreign words in your language does not make it foreign, there’s more to a language than vocabulory, my mother speaks Pashto with Punjabi words does that mean Pashto is of Punjabi origin? Karzai uses Pashto words in his Dari speeches does that make Pashto the mother of Dari? Every Indian and Paki I know use mostly English vocabulory in their Urdu/Hindi but that doesn’t mean Urdu/Hindi is an Anglo language.
Hindi and Urdu are dialects of Hindustani/Hindvi which was developed in the Mughal courts based on local dialects (descendents of Punjabi), some of the vocabulory was borrowed from Persian, Arabic and to a much lesser extent Turkish but vocabulory doesn’t have much effect on the nature of a language, later during independence the Indians overtly Sanskritified their dialect and the Pakistanis overtly Perso-Arabised it to try and be different from the enemy (each other).
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Well! We have gone to off-topic! I forgot to mention persian. Urdu has got so many turkish words, I came to know only after reading some turkish papers in london - darya, hurreyat, watan, hava so on so forth. Anyway good information from you PP.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Well! We have gone to off-topic! I forgot to mention persian. Urdu has got so many turkish words, I came to know only after reading some turkish papers in london - darya, hurreyat, watan, hava so on so forth. Anyway good information from you PP.
Hurriyat & Vatan are originally Arabic.
Darya and Hava are originally Farsi.
Though there have been efforts to 'Turkify' the language during the past century, Turkish still contains many words borrowed from Farsi and Arabic. The Turkish that was used during the Ottoman era was heavily Persianized, and was even written in Farsi script.
None of this changes the fact that 'proper' Urdu and Punjabi are still mutually unitelligible languages. Though Punjabi does predate Urdu...early Hindustani (which ultimately developed into Urdu, and later Hindi) was more or less based on dialects like Brij Bhasha and Khariboli, which are from Western UP (Delhi, Agra, Aligarh area), rather than any Punjabi dialects. Amir Khusro, believed by some to be the father of Hindustani, wrote in Brij Bhasha and Khariboli (and Farsi), not Punjabi.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Urdu is a mix of Arabic, Persian, Turkish and Sanskrit...Where does Punjabi fit in? Or any other language of the subcontinent except Sanskrit?
There is not a hint of Punjabi in pure Urdu...
Urdu is a court language...Mostly because the Mughal rulers were Turks and their wives were Persians and Arabic being the language of their religion and Sanskrit the land that they ruled so they took the best of all four languages and created this wondrous language called Urdu...
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
If u read Kalam of Baba Farid Gunj Shakkar, which he wrote in 12th century, few hundred years before the advent of urdu, u'll come across following words:
"Likhey"
"Dikha"
"Laiy" (Ley in urdu)
"Haddaan" (Hadiyaan in urdu)
"Kanni" (Kaan in urdu)
This just a tiny example, the legend has it that Punjabi has contrubuted 5000 words to urdu.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
None of this changes the fact that 'proper' Urdu and Punjabi are still mutually unitelligible languages. Though Punjabi does predate Urdu...early Hindustani (which ultimately developed into Urdu, and later Hindi) was more or less based on dialects like Brij Bhasha and Khariboli, which are from Western UP (Delhi, Agra, Aligarh area), rather than any Punjabi dialects. Amir Khusro, believed by some to be the father of Hindustani, wrote in Brij Bhasha and Khariboli (and Farsi), not Punjabi.
And where did Khari Boli and Braj come from? The early dialects of Punjabi of course..
Archaeologists have found ancient manuscripts of presentday NW Punjabi dialects (Pothwari, Hindko: called Prakrits) in the Kharoshti script in Taxila and surrounding areas, these are the mothers of the later Punjabi dialects (Majhi, Dhoabi etc.) and all the Sanskritic languages (some say Sanskrit came from them others say it was vice versa but that's a different discussion).
Farsi, Arabic or Turkish ARE NOT the ancestors of Urdu/Hindi/Hindvi/Hindustani rather the local dialect (Khari Boli tc. which is descended from Punjabi) are what Urdu comes from... What the Mughals did was like an ABCD speaking his parents' tongue with English words, unnaturally inserting a lot of foreign words does not change a languages basic structure or classification..
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
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The topic was something else but has been drifted to the same old discussion.
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Urdu's relation to Punjabi and the fact that it is a descendent of Punjabi is very relevant to the discussion..
One of the main reasons Punjabis have been more open to Urdu than say Pashtuns is because Punjabi, Urdu, Braj, Hindi etc. are what linguistic scholars call dialect continuum of the same language... Other examples from around the world include Liverpudlian and Mancunian: Liverpool is on our doorstep and there's more differences in their accent/dialect to our Mancunian than in between Punjabi and Urdu yet they are both classed as English, or take Irish and Scottish-Gaelic, or Tajiki, Dari and Farsi, or Tamil, Malayalam and Kannada (Telugu is also related but it's mutually unintelligble because it's artificially Aryanised).
I know all this is a bit of a blow to "Urdu-speaking" people who are under the illusion that just because one of their foremothers might have been a *kaneez *in a Mughal court they might be Central Asian descent and therefore their language is descended from some foreign language, sorry to burst your bubble guys. Foreign words don't change the classification of your language, Punjabi, Turkish or any other Muslim language can just as easily insert Arabic words in their vocabulory but that doesn't make them Semitic languages.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
I don’t think its just Punjabi. A lot of families that hail from non-Urdu speaking (hindustani) backgrounds are not passing down their regional languages to their kids. My family is memon and I don’t know a lick of Memoni. Well, I can understand it, but that’s only because my parents would switch to memoni when they didn’t want me to understand what they were saying to each other.
I know plenty of families who haven’t passed down sindhi to their kids, or gujarati. I don’t know anyone who speaks any other languages.
In fact, there are Pakistani parents who wont even teach their kids Urdu. Only English.
So, you poor punjabis aren’t the only victims of language neglect.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
:lol:
You probably believe Arabic and French also evolved from early Punjabi dialects too then. And I’m sure no actual facts will dissuade you from thinking that way.
Look…no one here is saying Punjabi people shouldnt preserve their unique cultural heritage, or that they should just speak in Urdu or English with their children. Nor is anyone claiming that Punjabi is somehow an inferior language. However, your claims are getting ridiculous. Yes, Punjabi is related to Urdu. Ultimately, so is everything from Memoni to Kashmiri. This does not, however, mean that Urdu evolved from Punjabi. The Sanscrit language gave rise to the Prakit languages, which diverged and gave rise to both Punjabi and the early Hindustani dialects. The languages share common ancestors, but are not descended from one another. Also, just so you know, the Mughals didnt really speak Urdu…the development of the language began well before they arrived in India, and they didnt really play a huge role in its development. If anything, Urdu didnt really begin to become a true literary language till after Mughal authority collapsed, and the Nawabs and Rajas began using it as court language.
Moreover, to deny that Urdu has roots in Persian as well, given the fact that it probably borrows 40-50% of its nouns and adjectives from the language is a little ridiculous. Just like the claim that Urdu, Punjabi, Sindhi, etc are all mutually intelligible. For God’s sake, I’ve heard Lahori Punjabis claim that they can barely understand the Punjabi spoken in the villages, let alone Sindhi.
Haha…you mean kinda like how 75% of the population of Lahore is originally ‘Kashmiri’ because their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather’s third cousin’s wife’s uncle might have visited Srinagar once?
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
This is the problem with you guys. You're so hung up on how superior your language is and how beautiful it is and therefore, how great YOU are - that you forget to appreciate and enjoy these differences.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
This is the problem with you guys. You're so hung up on how superior your language is and how beautiful it is and therefore, how great YOU are - that you forget to appreciate and enjoy these differences.
Quit the bickering. Its such a turn off.
Ummm...one of the first things I said was that there's no reason for anyone to think that Punjabi is inferior to Urdu.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
And I think you need to stop viewing languages as inferior or superior.
Um...what part of 'I dont view languages as superior or inferior, and have never made any statement that should have lead anyone to believe I do' are you having issues understanding?
