Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
There were hadees books written by Sahabas also such as Saad ibn Abi Waqas and many more. There were many hadees books written during the times of sahabas and also by tabieen. Even if Quran was compiled before, there were only few copies of it, it was transmitted through oraly. Same way hadees were transmitted this way.
So you didnt answer, how you know this is the Quran that was revealed to Prophet s.a.w.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
number 1 quran was memorized in whole and in parts by people during the life of the prophet, and Allah said he would protect it, that is pretty good for mr.
I dont think the same was said for hadeeth.
you keep skirtig the issue and posing questions rather than answering questions. why are there weak hadeeth in the books, its in or out, yes or no, whats this weak hadeeth business...
Its a common approach to drag quran in, an approach to misidrect because people do not have answers, and that is the same I am seeing here.
I dont see surahs in quran tagged as weak that oh yeah maybe they are not real.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Hadees were also memorised by the Sahabas just as they memorised the Quran.
And the scholars of the hadees have already distinguished weak and saheeh hadees so now its very easy for us to follow them.
And people who create misconception are the one who mis guide people as it was predicted by Prophet s.a.w that people will come who will deny my hadees. May Allah save us from this new fitnah.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
so does one follow all weak hadeeth or not?
and are we 100% certain that the compilers got the rest 100% right and there are no weak hadeeth in saheeh category and vice versa?
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
I have already stated that muhadiseen has separated saheeh and weak hadees.
http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/articles/authsun/index.html
Read it and all your asnwers will be answered if your intention is to learn.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Then answer the Quran if you believe in it…
Explain what “Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger means…”
If the Quran is the word of Allah :swt: and we are meant to obey it, then it makes sense…However, in what context is “Obey the Messenger” used?
How do we obey the Messenger? What was different about what the Messenger said or did that the Quran specifically mentions “Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger…”
In what way do we obey the Messenger?
Obviously, since you argue so well, you would have a deep and profound understanding of what “Obey the Messenger” means, something which the greatest of Islamic scholars probably missed in their lifetime of learning…
Care to enlighten us? And do provide references if possible as to where you heard or why you believe it should be so…
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
I have no issue wit obeying the messenger, and that is not my argument at all. If you want to move the argument in this direction because you can not answer my questions then its a diff thing.
I have n issue wit hadeeth either, I do however think that all hadeetha re not created equal, something that even the compilers of the most wel known adeeth books practised.
If hadeeth was perfect we would not have hadeeth that are counter to quran, we would not have hadeeth that are weak.
yeah I want to obey the messenger, but to me that is following his guidance and not words attributed to him but not his or words narrated incorrectly.
but hey, if you think all hadeeth are 100% accurate then more power to you.
PS: my questions still stay unanswered :) all i get is more questions.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Ulma of Islam had already compiled the ahadees into Sahih , zaeef etc ahadees
one can't judge with his little knowledge that which hadees is right or wrong
if you want , you must have the complete knowledge of each and every hadees, background , ravi etc, this is a full fledge job
so one can't reject hadees on his own will
one has to follow shaih hadees no doubt about that
and he can't question them at all
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Do you have a Hadith in mind which counters the Quran? Please let us know…
And the reason the compilation of Ahadith being called a science is precisely because no errors remain and we don’t have an episode such as the DaVinci code or the Gospel of Judas…
But just for your sake, do you have any Hadith in mind that counters the Quran?
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
This sentence really makes no sense…You want to obey the Messenger, (which you must being a Muslim and all) by following his guidance but do not wish to follow the words attributed to him?
So my friend, if you take out the words, where will guidance come from?..lol
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Not all people are rejecting ahadees now a days, As i see it, its a very small segment which has access to our media or private tv channels and also trying its best to confuse our young generation with the help of media.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
if only that were the case with your sects. I'd have absolutely no problem with you or anyone else believing in hadiths as 'history'. But the moment you start using it to to arrive at a Shariah is where I put my foot down.
Please don't come here and claim hadiths aren't defining Qur'an when all the sects are doing exactly that.. overruling the Qur'an by using hadith verdicts to impose a Shariah on all muslims.
[quote]
But, isn't that the purpose of the book according to your premise? An Angel could have delivered *the *message as well. WHY send a human to humans?
[/quote]
because this life is a test.. even better Allah could pierce the clouds and deliver a warning Himself and EVERYONE including non Muslims would immediately believe.. what's the point of that?
[quote]
Then don't preserve his actions but leave the book revealed on to him... the last most important prophet in history and his actions, his daily life not preserved. What does it mean when Allah says OBEY the messenger in QURAN?
[/quote]
what does it matter how the prophet spent his life? Obeying the messenger doesn't mean copying how he cleaned his nose or lay down to sleep or went to the bathroom.. It means obeying the Message he brought. There's a reason the Qur'an always uses "Messenger" in these verses about obeying and not "Muhammad".
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
And the reason the compilation of Ahadith being called a science is precisely because no errors remain and we don't have an episode such as the DaVinci code or the Gospel of Judas...
But just for your sake, do you have any Hadith in mind that counters the Quran?
here is one...
The Qur'an says:
15:9 Behold, it is We Ourselves Who have sent down this Reminder, and behold, it is We Who shall truly guard it. (6:115).
But numerous Hadiths in six famous Hadiths books makes the protection of Allah as promised in 15:9, doubtful. Of course one can't reproduce all those Hadtihs here therefore see a glimpse below.
Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Vol III Chapter 36 (Suckling of a young boy) Hadith # 1944
A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said, "The verse concerning stoning the fornicator to death *(Rajm) *and ten sucklings of a young man have been revealed. Indeed it was recorded on a piece of paper lying under my cushion. When Allah's Messenger (Peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) breathed his last, we were occupied with his death when a domestic goat entered and ate it up."
We don't see any verse in Qur'an relating to "Rajm" and "ten suckling" according to Ibn-e-Majah, these verses were revealed but a domestic goat ate them up while Allah is saying "We who will truly guard it."
Why did Ibn-e-Majah record this fabricated story in his Sunan? Was he not aware of 15:9? Or was he among those making the completeness of Qur'an doubtful?
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Funguy,
Which website is that *hadith *from?
...rest later.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
I gave the reference of the quote. Why don't you open your Sunan Ibne majah?
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Hadith are basically nothing more than a diary (= a document containing records/experiences of a person).
And if someone ever has kept a diary about him/herself, that person knows how difficult it is to even remember your own exact wordings only a day later. And here we have a diary about someone else written down 200 years after his death, and people are treating it as divine truth.
Just read it as a diary. Some things might interest you, some thing might give you some insight about how things were in that era, other things might not interest you, might sound ridiculous etc. Just like someone would read Herodotus, Plinius, the Christian Hadith (now part of the Bible), and any other history book. These are all man-made, so therefore prone to human error. And even if another human tries to purify it, then still they are per definition prone to error.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Lajjo, I know it makes no sense to you, and that is why I used the words “attributed to the prophet”
Point being, are the words attributed to the prophet really from him? Is it not important that scholars and ordinary people alike stay vigilant and ensure that external practices and words do not shape religion.
So I wish to follow the prophet’s words, however I do not believe that all the words attributed to him are his words.
Back in the day people thought they were following the prophets words when they were following bogus hadeeth which were tossed out by scholars at that point in time.
Are we convinced that the hadeeth that we have are authentic, are in the right context, and are to be followed exactly as stated or are there to be viewed as wisdom that needs to be referred to as we face all kinds of situations in our current times.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
Allah promised the Quran would be protected and unchanged. Not the 1000's of sayings attributed to the prophet. This should be obvious with all the hadith that have been determined (and many still undetermined) to be false. When you start following words as if they are the words of God you are following a false religion.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
and they were error proof?
I mean they did not have enough basis to classify all hadeeth as saheeh, which indicates that they themselves were unsure and did the best that they could.
Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days
And it is for this very reason that the true Islam will NEVER be implemented in Pakistan. Every time the idea surfaces it is shot down because the mullahs will tell you that there are TWO sources of Islam - the second being the Sunnah. Now, each sect has a different opinion on this and thus in their "holier than thou" attitude they also block the Quran's teachings in becoming the law of the land.