The reasons have been clearly stated but your ethnic biase is making you blind to it. And this fair-skinned thing is the most mandane argument I ever heard. Pashtuns don't have these complexes. Dark or fair, we are. This is a purely political and humanistic issue.
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thats all. no political reasons behind it. the afghans will never accept pakistani pathans as their brothers but the pakis just pledge blind allegiance to them. they've infiltrated peshawar and turned it into a dump...not to mention the prostitution has increased...the scandalous dating scene has emerged (go peek behind one of the curtains in jani cone, saddar), and they still go on about how they are proud afghans and brave afghans etc etc.
[/quote]
What about Hera Mandi???
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i am from nwfp and i pledge my allegiance to pakistan. all these guys who are writing about wanting to join their afghan brothers are sitting in comfy houses behind expensive laptops. go ask the local fisherman in mardan if he wants to unite with his afghan brothers...
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Mardan doesn't occur at the bank of any river. And there are no fishermen there...I doubt you are a Pashtun...!
LoTD, Drilling into butts is not a good way to put your argument forward. One could as easily say that hatred and tribalism has been drilled into the butts of Kabuli lefties!
The ban on wheat movement is "inter district" and not "inter-provincial". So this idiotic ban impacts Punjab flour mills as well as others. In Punjab the flour mills get a permit from their local sheriff (Deputy Superintendent Police). The process itself is archaic and it prevents farmers from selling their wheat at market rates.
Unfortunately Punjabi, Frontier, and Afghan businessmen have not done a good job in terms of protecting their regions.
Look at the smuggling trade of Bara, lundi kotal in Frontier, smuggling across Pak-Bharat border in Punjab, and misuse of transit-trade agreements by Afghanis is hurting the tax base all over the region. That $tupid smuggling then is countered by the governments by restricting movement of goods. And the vicious circle of theft and more idiotic rules goes on.
Unfortunately Kabuli lefties are turning the bad business practices and government regulations into ethnic war. Why? It is simple!
Kabuli lefties have so successfully used inter-ethnic wars to destroy Kabul, Kandhar, and Jalalabad. Sadly these cities don't even look like a place on earth. Rather Kabulis have turned their cities into moon-like cratered areas. May be this is the Kabuli version of space travel.
Now the same Kabuli lefties want to use inter-ethnic wars in Pakistan and turn Peshawar, Kohat, and Quetta into their Afghan jannat (heaven).
Shame on the proponents of inter-ethnic wars. Shame Shame shame!
Pashtuns have their distinct history and Mutalia Pakistan doesn't cover it. Our freedom fighters were great Bacha Khan, Faqir of Ipi, Haji Saib Turanzai, Umara Khan Janduli, Mullah Powinda, Wazir Akbar Khan, Amir Amanullah Khan, etc. Obviously, these revered personalities fought for Pashtun pride and freedom and nothing else. And they had started their freedom struggle much before idea of Pakistan, in political sense, was born.
Nevertheless, the collaborators with British Raj Like Khan Bahadar Ali Quli Khan, father of Aslam Khattak, who fought on the side of British against their own people, joined Muslim League.
Why is this Dravidian thing so much on your mind? This is absolutely irrelevant to what we are discussing.
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You're also very wrong that there was no Pashtoon following in NWFP for the Muslim League during Pakistan's formation. A referendum was taken in the NWFP to choose either Pakistan or India, and Pakistan was chosen. With the exception of one or two Indian nationalists like yourself, who consider yourself to have Pashtoon ancestry, noone really cares about Pashtoonistan.
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This has been answered by another Pashtun brother.
Brother Lotd, Why did you miss Khushhal Khan Khattak?
Amir Amanullah Khan and Wazir Akbar Khan (if I am not mistaken) are Afghanistani leaders from 1800s. Why do you want to make those losers as heroes of Frontier?
Amir Amanullah originally fought against British. However you ignore that later he became part of British force.
Afghanistan's history is not some dreamy story of Jannat (heaven). It is rather a long torturous and bloody history where one Khan tried to kill the other khan, thus subjecting the unfortunate region to so much blood and gore.
As if those old Khans were not enough, modern day Kabuli lefties have made the situation even bloodier. These guys burn and loot Afghan cities turning them into as picturesque, as the landscape on the moon.
The ban on wheat movement is "inter district" and not "inter-provincial". So this idiotic ban impacts Punjab flour mills as well as others. In Punjab the flour mills get a permit from their local sheriff (Deputy Superintendent Police). The process itself is archaic and it prevents farmers from selling their wheat at market rates.
The issue had come up in NWFP Assembly and had been heatedly discussed. The assembly members had questioned how could, on one hand, Govt of Punjab insist on supplying flour but not wheat to NWFP and, on the other hand, exports marble-stone out of NWFP to marble factories in Punjab. Even Sirajul Haq had suggested that NWFP should export finished marble to Punjab instead of marble-stone and marble factories in Punjab should be shifted to NWFP.
But can you deny the fact that agriculture is a provincial subject and all natural resources federal? But here also the rule is not uniform e.g. Tobbaco again is a federal subject on which govt collects about Rs. 22 billions federal tax annually. On the contrary, wheat, cotton, and rice are provincially taxed.
I will give you another example of the injustice. Govt of NWFP installed, through its own resources, another turbine at Malakand Hydro-electric power station to generate 85 MW extra electricity and boost industrial development in the province. This was called Malakand III project. But after the work was completed, federal govt linked production from this facility with national grid thus depriving the province of one of its energy resource. This in face of the fact that farmers in Malakand Division are drilling underground water to irrigate their lands using either deisal oil or electricity, which lowers their income margines significantly.
[quote]
Look at the smuggling trade of Bara, lundi kotal in Frontier, smuggling across Pak-Bharat border in Punjab, and misuse of transit-trade agreements by Afghanis is hurting the tax base all over the region. That $tupid smuggling then is countered by the governments by restricting movement of goods. And the vicious circle of theft and more idiotic rules goes on.
[/quote]
I think we should not be a consumer market for industrial products of Punjab. If federal govt has blocked all the ways of industrial development in NWFP, then we should get it from where we can. Why not buy from multiple shops than alwys buy from one shop. It is an age of free trade man. Or you people should also do something about smuggling on border with India.
[quote]
Unfortunately Kabuli lefties are turning the bad business practices and government regulations into ethnic war. Why? It is simple!
Kabuli lefties have so successfully used inter-ethnic wars to destroy Kabul, Kandhar, and Jalalabad. Sadly these cities don't even look like a place on earth. Rather Kabulis have turned their cities into moon-like cratered areas. May be this is the Kabuli version of space travel.
Now the same Kabuli lefties want to use inter-ethnic wars in Pakistan and turn Peshawar, Kohat, and Quetta into their Afghan jannat (heaven).
Shame on the proponents of inter-ethnic wars. Shame Shame shame!
[/quote]
Unfortunately, Ranjit Singhi mindset mixed with fundo Islam (Islamabad) cannot see all these injustices...the rapes, carnage, and destruction in Bangal, Baluchistan, Karachi, Interior Sindh, Afghanistan etc. could not rouse the conscience of these people...Gen. Akhtar Abdul Raham had said "Kabul must be burnt"...
The region will bleed until Punjab is stablized...
Amir Amanullah Khan and Wazir Akbar Khan (if I am not mistaken) are Afghanistani leaders from 1800s. Why do you want to make those losers as heroes of Frontier?
Oh, this "Mutalia Pakistan"!
Amir Amanullah Khan, a Pashtun/Afghan, was a leader of 20th Century. He never was a part of the British force. Khushal Khan Khattak lived in 17th Century and that era is irrelevant to this discussion...
[quote]
Afghanistan's history is not some dreamy story of Jannat (heaven). It is rather a long torturous and bloody history where one Khan tried to kill the other khan, thus subjecting the unfortunate region to so much blood and gore.
[/quote]
No history is dreamy story Jannath man...and every region has had its ups and downs some more some less...whatever it is we own it and take pride in it...the differece is you preferred peace at the cost of your freedom and we freedom, both from external and internal domination, at the cost of peace...Still it is not as simple as you are making it into in typical "Mutalia Pakistani" way...
[quote]
As if those old Khans were not enough, modern day Kabuli lefties have made the situation even bloodier. These guys burn and loot Afghan cities turning them into as picturesque, as the landscape on the moon.
[/quote]
Commies are gone forever...but there is danger to regional and world peace from terrorist organizations like Lashkari Tayyiba, Supahi Sahaba, etc.
Mutalia Pakistan (School text book on Pakistan studies covering history, and geography of the region. “mutalia” means “study”) was a school book. Off course people grow up and read big-people books.
You my brother are stuck with book on "Mutalia Afghanistan" here.
Oh wait! Afghanistan schools are already bombed out and kids there don't have books anymore.
However your half-eaten book on Mutalia Afghanistan needs to be updated with facts and most of its missing pages should be added.
Modern day Afghanistan has a history and specific geography. You can't lay claim on neighboring regions of Iran, or Pakistan. Because they both will whoop Afghan @r$e. That would be living in the past. People who live in the past usually get sent into past pretty quick.
Learn to live in peace man! Learn to live in peace.
Brother LoTD,
Taking pride in your history is one thing,
Living in your history (past) is totally another.
Move to 21st century man! Move forward.
You have to chose peace in order to build yourself up. *No peace no progress. *
Afghanistan is a living example just like bunch of tribal Africans. All these tribals have decided to bomb their own cities.
Carrying AK 47 for these tribals is more important than setting up schools and universities.
Riding donkeys for these tribals is more important than building 6 lane highways.
Making huge craters in their tribal cities is more important than going to the moon.
Heck if you can visit moon (and take a dump in the crater) in front of your tent, then why to build rockets and send astronauts to the moon.
While these tribals do $hite in front of their own tent, NATO, US, UK sends their Toms, Dicks, and Harrys to rule the tribal @r$e.
While these tribals run amuck with AK-47 and land mines, A new Amir sits in bombed out Kabuli-Kastle, a new mayor, or a new king of Kabul is corronated.
See this is what happens when as you said brother Lotd "preferred freedom at the cost of your peace".
And what you call freedom in your sermon is in fact "tribal fascistic anarchy" that the likes of Hitler brought forth in the 20th century.
So what? Do you realize how utterly stupid you sound? The idea that because Pashtuns have fought off invaders in the past it means Pashtuns are to proud to accept anyone else? Bull..You can start with Afghanistan. You have the Northern Alliance there, and I dont see the Pashtuns united in fighting them. Your nationalistic ranting is tiring. Why is it so difficult to accept the idea that Pashtuns do not mind being governned by one who's not from among them? If we felt oppressed, we would do something about it, but we never have right from the beginning of Pakistan. So why do you cling to certain parts of Pashtun history and wildly claim people are not happy under the present government? Even Pakistan has an Indian born statesman at the head of it, so why does nobody mind, in fact why is he so popular in Pakistan you should ask yourself. Also, as Antibiol points out, you missed out the freedom fighters of the NWFP.
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Nevertheless, the collaborators with British Raj Like Khan Bahadar Ali Quli Khan, father of Aslam Khattak, who fought on the side of British against their own people, joined Muslim League.
[/QUOTE]
So did many..In fact most of the NWFP voted for the Muslim League.
[QUOTE]
Why is this Dravidian thing so much on your mind? This is absolutely irrelevant to what we are discussing.
[/QUOTE]
I mentioned it once on here..Why can you not imagine to live alongside Punjabis is more the question.
[QUOTE]
This has been answered by another Pashtun brother.
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You're about as Pashtun as Frank Bruno is a Chinaman. Just a load of Indians I suspect.
You my brother are stuck with book on "Mutalia Afghanistan" here.
Oh wait! Afghanistan schools are already bombed out and kids there don't have books anymore.
However your half-eaten book on Mutalia Afghanistan needs to be updated with facts and most of its missing pages should be added.
Modern day Afghanistan has a history and specific geography. You can't lay claim on neighboring regions of Iran, or Pakistan. Because they both will whoop Afghan @r$e. That would be living in the past. People who live in the past usually get sent into past pretty quick.
Oh, this barak mari...typical Punjab style...very little do we learn from history...one of my elders told me that the day before we surrendered in East Pakistan along with arms, (a rare happening in history of wars-arnies usually destroy their arms before surrendering), one announcer from Lahore Radio was doing "barak mari" that "ham nai hindu dushman kai chakai chara diyai" but the next day we heard on BBC that there were terms of surrender being negotiated...And what about the strategic depth in Afghanistan turning into strtegic debacle...Pashtun Land, along with its resources, belongs Pashtuns as Baluchistan belong to Baluchis, and Sindh to old and new Sindhis...Don't harbor imperialistic designs my friend...Punjabis have little resources, wisdom, and experience to do that...there are other formidable powers and giants active in the arena...and Punjab is no match for them...
The best thing would be to give up these Ranjit Singhi imperialistic ambitions, whether internal or external, and convert Pakistan into a genuine federation with maximum autonomy to federating units (but then Punjabis would become poor...dilema....so the need for Ranjit Singhi tactics)...A peaceful and peace-loving Punjab would be in the best interests of all...
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Learn to live in peace man! Learn to live in peace.
[/quote]
"ulta choor kutwak ku dantay"
[/quote]
[quote]
Brother LoTD,
Taking pride in your history is one thing,
Living in your history (past) is totally another.
[/quote]
Past is a source of inspiration and future destiny..."true and real" furture is founded on "actual" past...
[quote]
Move to 21st century man! Move forward.
[/quote]
These Mutalia Pakistani platitudes/rhetorics have little substabce...Say something original please...
[quote]
You have to chose peace in order to build yourself up. *No peace no progress. *
Afghanistan is a living example just like bunch of tribal Africans. All these tribals have decided to bomb their own cities.
Carrying AK 47 for these tribals is more important than setting up schools and universities.
Riding donkeys for these tribals is more important than building 6 lane highways.
Making huge craters in their tribal cities is more important than going to the moon.
Heck if you can visit moon (and take a dump in the crater) in front of your tent, then why to build rockets and send astronauts to the moon.
While these tribals do $hite in front of their own tent, NATO, US, UK sends their Toms, Dicks, and Harrys to rule the tribal @r$e.
While these tribals run amuck with AK-47 and land mines, A new Amir sits in bombed out Kabuli-Kastle, a new mayor, or a new king of Kabul is corronated.
See this is what happens when as you said brother Lotd "preferred freedom at the cost of your peace".
And what you call freedom in your sermon is in fact "tribal fascistic anarchy" that the likes of Hitler brought forth in the 20th century.
[/quote]
A tribal carries AKs but self-protection...they have little interests, means, and sophistication to acquire WMDs, run nuclear black market, spawn-train-arm-finance tens of dozens of most horrindous terrorist organizations and groups, propagate/export most subversive and voilent ideologies, glamourise and glorify Jehad-martyredom, and spread intolerance against "Yahood" wa "Hanood" wa "Nasara"...(Ranjit Singhi rhetorics aside, can you tell me what interests or resources do tribals have to run an insurgency in Kashmir...?)
These things, and not the poor tribal carrying a gun for protection in his own home for lack of political and administrative reforms on his land, are a threat to local, regional, and world peace and a cause of anarchy...
NATO and US are in Afghanistan not to fight with the tribal who knoth nothing about Pan-Islamic expansionist ambitions( disguising Ranjit Singhi imperialistic desires) and who pursues his own pragmatic interests...They are there to fight a "wider" war against terrorism and to "nuetralize its basis"... Every body knows that Islamic terrorism on Pashtun Land is injected not indegenous...And Pashtuns also want peace...
Why Pashtun should accept Pakistan? Because they are loyal to Pakistan and those who are not loyal to Pakistan are at least loyal to Bacha Khan.
The other day I was reading the 'farmodaat' of Bacha Khan in an Afghan forum. According to his farman, that he broadcast during one of his visits to Afghanistan, Afghanis are in a bad condition because they are divided along ethnic lines. He said that when he visited India and asked Indians who they were, they said that they were Indians irrespective of their faith or ethnicity. But in Afghanistan, the people identified themselves as Tajiks, Uzbeks, Dari and Turkmen etc. That, according to him, was the mentality that kept Afghanistan backward.
Therefore, I urge Bacha Khan followers to act as Pakistanis and stop disobeying Bacha Khan teachings.
Attacking Punjabis because they don't let you secede and merge with Afghanistan is not the way forward. Achakzai should also calm down and worry about the provincial rights of Hindkowans rather than expressing concern about Saraiki people.
Tribesmen from the Masood and Gurbaz sub-tribes are using heavy weapons to fire at each other’s villages in Mohmand Agency following a flare-up in their conflict over ownership of marble mines. Affected tribesmen living in the area told The News that the exchange of firing between the belligerents began four days ago and was continuing. One of them said some houses were hit by heavy fire and sustained partial damage. He said a few cattleheads too were killed though no human losses had taken place. The tribesmen said rocket-launchers, mortars, Russian-made Dachaka and Zikoyak heavy guns and other sophisticated weapons were being freely used in the fighting. They said Masood tribesmen first started using heavy weapons as clashes erupted and pounded the rival Gurbaz tribe’s Gadezai and other villages. They said the fighting could escalate once the Gurbaz fighters too start firing with sophisticated weapons. The affected tribesmen blamed the political administration of Mohmand Agency for remaining inactive and doing little to resolve the dispute between the Masood and Gurbaz, both sub-tribes of Safi tribe, over the ownership of the world-famous Ziarat White marble mines.
if we follow u,r logic then we should join the most develop nation on earth n thats not something which make sense .If we follow u,r logic then Pakistan should join India which is more develop than Pakistan .:)
I wish there were more peoples like u i like u,r optimism .I dont hate any one on the base of there race religion or color but because of the way they act.Afghanistan after the Soviets was practically in the hand of Pakistan but wut does they do there destruction destruction destruction n only destruction any where they go its destruction whether its Kashmir Bangladesh India or Afghanistan they feed on bloods of other by using religion .Pakistan harbour terrorism it made Afghanistan a terrorist heaven use our own peoples against our own by the name of Islam .Wut do u see in Pakistan now frustration n frustration among the ordinary peoples.Situation in Balochistan or Waziristan is just the start .If nuclear weapons were enough to unite a country then Soviet Union may have been never disintegrated .Its the people who r the key for existence of a country n Pakistan failed dearly in that department .I hope the invitable take place with out much blood loss .
budy there is a thread about the top 15 economies in the world on this board somewhere n India is one them .I know u want to be better then them but dream world facts doesnt count .
Most Afghan Pashtuns don’t even speak Pashto as a first language, preferring the much more cultured Dari (Persian). That is why they have always been distingushable from Pakistani Pashtuns a lot of whom can’t stand their presence in their towns and cities.