Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
Very true, but people are sick to death of the political parties as well, especially with their track records.
There is more to it than that. :)
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
maybe people dont want to get sotified, arrested, tortured, diappear and sent to places like gunatnama bay. a common man's needs are how to feed the hungry kids and how to buy the next meal, and in many cases he is the sole bread winner of the entire family of 10 or something. that may also be the reason
that may also be a reason, indeed.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
When the response is going to be so brutal that not only will you be tortured but you can mysteriously disappear for years on end you think twice before coming our. That is what happens under this dictator. Furthermore people do not have the CJ anymore to question the dictator as to the whereabouts of the disappeared people.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
When the response is going to be so brutal that not only will you be tortured but you can mysteriously disappear for years on end you think twice before coming our. That is what happens under this dictator. Furthermore people do not have the CJ anymore to question the dictator as to the whereabouts of the disappeared people.
good point daleel!!
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
When the response is going to be so brutal that not only will you be tortured but you can mysteriously disappear for years on end you think twice before coming our. That is what happens under this dictator. Furthermore people do not have the CJ anymore to question the dictator as to the whereabouts of the disappeared people.
combined with the fact that most of the political leaders of the oppostion have been arrested and others like imran have gone underground and cant lead or rally the masses and these students that are protesting are doing so w/o announcing their protest in advance and still managed to get enuff numbers to show up on the streets
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
When the response is going to be so brutal that not only will you be tortured but you can mysteriously disappear for years on end you think twice before coming our. That is what happens under this dictator. Furthermore people do not have the CJ anymore to question the dictator as to the whereabouts of the disappeared people.
Agreed on that, but as far as I know even if you had questions ready for CJ (and be it anyone) no answers where given. I believe that not even Musharraf himself would know about the reason, the names and the place to where those ppl disappear at times.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
combined with the fact that most of the political leaders of the oppostion have been arrested and others like imran have gone underground and cant lead or rally the masses and these students that are protesting are doing so w/o announcing their protest in advance and still managed to get enuff numbers to show up on the streets
Shows that people are indeed in need of changes. Especially the new generation.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
When the response is going to be so brutal that not only will you be tortured but you can mysteriously disappear for years on end you think twice before coming our. That is what happens under this dictator. Furthermore people do not have the CJ anymore to question the dictator as to the whereabouts of the disappeared people.
if china can have tianamen square protests by people, Pakistan can have the same, I mean they had tanks there. so either we can say china was very gentle on those ppl, or we cans ay that we simply dont have the type of passion or the type of interest that the chinese had. South Africa had a brutal regime, it did nto stop movements..ppl were in jail for years...remember mandella. Now if you are going to try and prove that current pakistani regime is worse than that then that is oen thing..which probably would be the easy way out.
I am sad to say pakistani ppl are too apathetic in civil matters of all sorts... forget politics. while major incidents may galkvanize them like teh 2005 earthquake did, for the most part ppl dont give a damn aside from talking, talking and more talking.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
if china can have tianamen square protests by people, Pakistan can have the same, I mean they had tanks there. so either we can say china was very gentle on those ppl, or we cans ay that we simply dont have the type of passion or the type of interest that the chinese had. South Africa had a brutal regime, it did nto stop movements..ppl were in jail for years...remember mandella. Now if you are going to try and prove that current pakistani regime is worse than that then that is oen thing..which probably would be the easy way out.
I am sad to say pakistani ppl are too apathetic in civil matters of all sorts... forget politics. while major incidents may galkvanize them like teh 2005 earthquake did, for the most part ppl dont give a damn aside from talking, talking and more talking.
I dont agree, how many years did it take for tianamen square, decades of oppression and same goes for SA. In Pakistan people had lots of hopes attached to Mush because he came after the disasters fo BB and Nawaz, but now people are disillusioned because he has turned out to be worse than them. Pakistan has never been in such mess. It is this disillusionment more than anything that is responsible for the indifference on part of the people. That is not to say that they dont detest this govt. read comments of people on BBC website, especially people form Pakistan. They are an eye opener for any Mush supporter.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
if china can have tianamen square protests by people, Pakistan can have the same, I mean they had tanks there. so either we can say china was very gentle on those ppl, or we cans ay that we simply dont have the type of passion or the type of interest that the chinese had. South Africa had a brutal regime, it did nto stop movements..ppl were in jail for years...remember mandella. Now if you are going to try and prove that current pakistani regime is worse than that then that is oen thing..which probably would be the easy way out.
I am sad to say pakistani ppl are too apathetic in civil matters of all sorts... forget politics. while major incidents may galkvanize them like teh 2005 earthquake did, for the most part ppl dont give a damn aside from talking, talking and more talking.
Rebel, there is one major difference:
The timing. All of the historical event you have been mentioning are past. 5-10 years have now past. We are now in 2007 and yet we are so far away from a democratic system. So far away...
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
I dont agree, how many years did it take for tianamen square, decades of oppression and same goes for SA. In Pakistan people had lots of hopes attached to Mush because he came after the disasters fo BB and Nawaz, but now people are disillusioned because he has turned out to be worse than them. Pakistan has never been in such mess. It is this disillusionment more than anything that is responsible for the indifference on part of the people. That is not to say that they dont detest this govt. read comments of people on BBC website, especially people form Pakistan. They are an eye opener for any Mush supporter.
first of all I dont agree that he has been teh worse then them, period.
so decades of oppression had such strong movements so one decade whould have a proportionate ratio, or even if you are talkign about an incremental gain with time, its still neglible. I know soemone who went to the protests at pakistan high commission in London and came back shaking his head saying that the turnout was beyond pathetic.
no one is attacking pakistanis and tossing them in jail in UK or US or Canada,..
so what is..apathy? disinterest? it has to be one or the other, because no one is puttign them in jail in London..
Yes many letters..almost to the same level that I read on pakistan cricket team kartoot....
And reading those comments yet again prove my point...talk talk and talk.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
I dont agree, how many years did it take for tianamen square, decades of oppression and same goes for SA. In Pakistan people had lots of hopes attached to Mush because he came after the disasters fo BB and Nawaz, but now people are disillusioned because he has turned out to be worse than them. Pakistan has never been in such mess. It is this disillusionment more than anything that is responsible for the indifference on part of the people. That is not to say that they dont detest this govt. read comments of people on BBC website, especially people form Pakistan. They are an eye opener for any Mush supporter.
Considering the fact oppression is still practised in these Countries. Especially China.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
Rebel, there is one major difference: The timing. All of the historical event you have been mentioning are past. 5-10 years have now past. We are now in 2007 and yet we are so far away from a democratic system. So far away...
concept remains the same..
peopel are not rising up en masse..thats a fact.
reasons are either
they dont care
they are scared
they are stuck in apathy
which is it? or is it all?
do u know there was a protest at the offices of Pakistan consulate in chicago?
it was so bad that not a single newspaper covered it.. and I dont see richard daley threatening to put away ppl for life or send them to gitmo, and last time i checked he was niethr a musharraf bussy nor an MQM don.
please do not take my words as supporting emergency, I am not.
I am just saying that for whatever reasons, people do nto seem to be doign much about it. The srorm of rhetoric in living rooms across the world in pakistan households is political masala talk.. that is it. a very minimal fraction of those ppl willa ctyally think of it as bad enough to actuaolly take any action.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
answer is simple coz they dont see any better alternative
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
answer is simple coz they dont see any better alternative
It's not about alternates...
It's a matter of principles....rule of law...our basic rights as human beings being treated like animals for last 60 years....forget who will win election or who will be our leader....it's beyond that>>>
We are not political activist, we do not really care about politicians either....we do not accept our institutions being destroyed time and again>>>
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
answer is simple coz they dont see any better alternative
Release all the people who have been jailed and you will see a different atmosphere in Pakistan. It is a temporary suppression which will not last.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
concept remains the same..
peopel are not rising up en masse..thats a fact.
reasons are either
they dont care they are scared they are stuck in apathy
which is it? or is it all?
do u know there was a protest at the offices of Pakistan consulate in chicago? it was so bad that not a single newspaper covered it.. and I dont see richard daley threatening to put away ppl for life or send them to gitmo, and last time i checked he was niethr a musharraf bussy nor an MQM don.
please do not take my words as supporting emergency, I am not.
I am just saying that for whatever reasons, people do nto seem to be doign much about it. The srorm of rhetoric in living rooms across the world in pakistan households is political masala talk.. that is it. a very minimal fraction of those ppl willa ctyally think of it as bad enough to actuaolly take any action.
Rebel, I can give you some answers on that.
First, the West talks, talks and talks. Criticizes Mushy's emergency very lightly and Media's Interest falls all of a sudden. Where there is no Media, there are no masses.
Secondly, (believe it or not, but I do believe in that) Pakistani consider Protests, Demos as something bad. So as soon as you start protesting (and that is in any case and anywhere) people will look as If you have committed a bloody crime. So that the "talking" you been mentioning will open new dimensions: "Oh! Look, there thats the one seen on TV protesting. " and so Mushy becomes side business in these talks. Basically a cultural and traditional problem in our Pakistani societies.
So either way, what would YOU do in such circumstances?!
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
first of all I dont agree that he has been teh worse then them, period.
Matter of opinion. A person who thinks saving his kursi is more important than Pakistan has to be the worse ruler we have had. terrorists are hosting Taleban flags in Swat and all he is interested in is pursuing innocent people on the streets of Karachi, Lahore etc. Talk about skewed priorities.
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
answer is simple coz they dont see any better alternative
u know and that is what is getting to me, what is prompting ppl to just send letters opposing emergency..why did we nto see a strom of letters opposing western support of benazir as a party ot the agreement.
where are the letters that go simply beyond bashing musharraf and talk about
yesterday my boss was askign em about my family and how they were and inquired that he was a little confused because he read somewhere that there were corruption allegations against benazir in Pakistan and whether they were true or just poltically motivated, as I talked about non pakistan cases including rockwood estate (surrey palace), SGS kick backs and the oil for food scandal, and the human rights assessment of her adeventures in karachi, he wondered out loud why on earth would we i.e. US support such a character
we have to fight for a justice, and have to do it honestly. we can not continue to be stuck in the vicious cycle of inept crooked civilian leaders, bloated corrupt bureaucracy, military rule etc.
I mean right now write a letter to whoever your rep is whereever and oppose all these guys. ask your govts to support Imran.. why not?
Re: Why Pakistani people have not taken to the streets?
Matter of opinion. A person who thinks saving his kursi is more important than Pakistan has to be the worse ruler we have had.
sorry nawaz did the same, ZAB did the same ..or we would have had mujeeb as a PM.
memories are short but should not be that short.
so it appears we have a few 'worse' leaders.