Why Not Shariah?

[Sharaabi]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@Faisal

My whole point is that it should be up to the people whether they want to live under sharia law or common law (non-shariah law). Imposing Sharia law on unwilling citizenry is a recipe for disaster.

Going by experience, people of Pakistan, including in NWFP, have historically always rejected religions political parties. In 2002, MMA won big, but in just four years, people of NWFP kicked them out brutally. MMA symbolized the same kind of Taliban style sharia laws that so many fantasize about. So, it would appear that people of Pakistan are not willing to live their lives under strict shariah laws.

On a personal level, how many guppies here, would be willing to live under sharia laws? Especially sharia laws that are interpreted and implemented by backward religious scholars who are mostly completely devoid of common sense? Not many, I would assume. Thats one reason why so many of guppies themselves live in western countries. Given a choice, most people want to make their own decisions on how they want to implement Islam in their lives; and not let a government or police to force-feed it to them.

We all need to understand that we do not live in Taliban Land. What happened in Afghanistan under Taliban rule was particular to Afghanistan.
We have our scholars, who are well-versed both in secular and religious sciences, and who have massive followings and who have never taken up violence, except when they saw the guns facing their way.

I ask you. How many of us want to live under a plutocratic form of government? And no, a mass turn out of voters is not a valid answer because the people do not know of any better option. For the majority of Pakistan its either PPP, or PML-N or the Danda (read army dictators). Its this cycle...when one fails the other comes...when the all fail, all past is forgotten and we go through the entire cycle again.

Our country is being run by feudal landlords. People like Makhdoom Amin Fahim. Does anyone even know what Makhdoom means. It means the one who is served. His sisters got married to the Quran...beause they didn't want the land to be going out of the family. By Zardari, who's past is as clear as anything. The Khars and the Chaudries....and you say our Scholars are backward and devoid of common sense! Allah o Akbar....Where do you plan to learn your Deen from if the scholars are stupid?

Your governments cry Democracy, but when we've been as democratic as it can be...you send your ambassadors to try to lure the chosen towards what they seem fit and away from what they promised the masses.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@MatineeSiren

Because secular laws guarantee the best ability to give fair and equal justice to all people.

Our societies are anything but free and fair. The present system is a failure.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

Teggy, you haven't answer my question. When we talk of implementing the shariah, its our romance of the early islamic era thats talking.

But we have no idea what it means in today's world and in a country like Pakistan.

We already have most of muslim personal law in Pakistan, (as far as i know), our marriages, inheritance etc are governed by Islamic laws.

So what else would you want to change in the laws that exist now.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@Iconoclast

Teggy!

The first question is what is Shariah Law?

Second, What are the aims to implement it? TO maintain Islamic cultural identity? or to have a different economic system.

Shariah is implementing Allah's governance on earth. To make what ever that is declared Fardh in the Quran and Hadith as a Obligatory, and whatever that is Halaal in the Quran and Hadith as legal, and whatever that is Haraam in the Quran and Hadith as Unlawful.

To judge according to the Quran and Hadith. And people who are crying foul need only to look at what Islamic Finance has become in a matter of short time. Its a huge success, now if only we can have our Social and Political order sorted.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@Sharaabi

Shariah is implementing Allah's governance on earth. To make what ever that is declared Fardh in the Quran and Hadith as a Obligatory, and whatever that is Halaal in the Quran and Hadith as legal, and whatever that is Haraam in the Quran and Hadith as Unlawful.

To judge according to the Quran and Hadith. And people who are crying foul need only to look at what Islamic Finance has become in a matter of short time. Its a huge success, now if only we can have our Social and Political order sorted.

I do not know what exactly are you referring to Islamic finance, if you are referring to Islamic Banks then i will disagree. Actually thats what has disappointed me the most.

Islamic banks and finance companies to me only seem to serve the interests of capitalism. Its the same thing, few rich people make use of people's money to get richer. Having a couple of Muftis in the bank to give Fatwa over its operations is of no use.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@Iconoclast

I do not know what exactly are you referring to Islamic finance, if you are referring to Islamic Banks then i will disagree. Actually thats what has disappointed me the most.

Islamic banks and finance companies to me only seem to serve the interests of capitalism. Its the same thing, few rich people make use of people's money to get richer. Having a couple of Muftis in the bank to give Fatwa over its operations is of no use.

Not all of the products are bad. Some like car financing or mortgages are legal and the scholars have approved of them. Others like sukook etc... are a whole different issue.

[malhot]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

Saudi Arabia follows this law - Public beheadings, hand cut for theft, whippings, religious police etc.

Most educated Pakistani's would find this revolting, so why even discuss something which is bound to divide Pakistan further.

[Mostar95]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@Iconoclast

Teggy, you haven't answer my question. When we talk of implementing the shariah, its our romance of the early islamic era thats talking.

But we have no idea what it means in today's world and in a country like Pakistan.

We already have most of muslim personal law in Pakistan, (as far as i know), our marriages, inheritance etc are governed by Islamic laws.

So what else would you want to change in the laws that exist now.

I endorse your point.

[Ali_R]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@malhot

Saudi Arabia follows this law - Public beheadings, hand cut for theft, whippings, religious police etc.

Most educated Pakistani's would find this revolting, so why even discuss something which is bound to divide Pakistan further.

Religious police? Aha...

[Mirch]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

We all have to grow up before we even start to talk about Sharia Law. 85 percent of people in Pakistan follow the mullah blindly. The Sharia Law of mullah is very closed minded and hippocratic. The Sharia Law I know is very liberal and accommodating but it needs matured minds to perceive it that way. Only the people who have any other kind of knowledge in addition to Quran , Sunnah and Fiqah will see Sharia Law to be open minded . liberal and accomodating. Run of the mill mullah who has studied Quran . Sunnha and Fiqh from a Madarsa will be more than happy to slit your throat if you go upto him and say that Islam is open minded , liberal and accomodating.

[pride]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

For God sake leave Sharia alone. Aren't you tired of mocking Islam? After removal of Bhutto, Zia-ul-Haq, played that card many years, till he was exploded in thin air. His Sharia created jehadis, suicide bombers and terrorists in addition to drugs and AK-42 culture.

[teggy]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

^U mean misinterpreted Islam, don't you?

We cannot leave Shariah alone because the knowledge of it is most vital right now. How are you gonna defend against or adopt something if you know nothing about it? Misconceptions are only cleared when you talk about issues.

[pride]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

teggy,

Remember when there was heavy conflict between Sunni and Shia sects. Zai-ul-Haq had to withdraw and ammended Sharia regarding forceful deductions from banks. You can not enforce one form of Sharia to people who follow different rules. This will again divide Muslims in Pakistan. Let Pakistan to be remain as Secular state. People should be allowed to practice their faith the way they like.

[ehtasab]

Re: Why Not Shariah?

@teggy

But what about the people that don't like the current laws being forced on them? There's so much injustice, trickery, and lying. And no one is held accoutable because the people that punish the wrongdoers and wrongdoers themselves. It's like a thief calling out a thief.

Which part of the country or which segment of population are you referring to here? There will always be people who will feel that certain laws are being pushed on them. For example, if we get shariah law the drunkards/liberals/"moderates" will feel that Shariah law is being forced on them etc.

[quote]
Would a panel of Scholars and Experts of law **be acceptable? Where the Scholars give an Islamic perspective **unanimously, and Experts of the Law and politics advice them on what can/will be workable and what wont.
[/quote]

What do you think about this one? Who is going to select the "panel"? The divide of Deo-Bandi, Brelvi, Shia, others we have is not going to result in a "unanimous" perspective. We will have to do something like India where Muslims have special provisions, so we will have to have different sets. One will have to declare in a court of law which set of laws he/she will abide by etc.

[quote]
I mean there is a huge package of rights that comes under Shariah. I know it's hard to believe because we haven't seen any of them being practiced. Which is unfortunate...
[/quote]

That is the problem with current "Shariah Shariah" shouters (the extremists who want to enforce some form of shariah), they are criminal of pick and chose themselves, they can justify their own crimes etc.

[quote]
It would sort of cover all grounds, a policy making one, and a devine law put into action.
[/quote]

It is possible to come up with a common set of laws using Union function of mathematics, leaving out the other "different" sets to case-by-case basis or some other way.

[quote]
Just my thoughts....I'm still learning from you all....
[/quote]
We all are learning.