Why Not Shariah?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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I know i know…but seriously..Why Not?

Lets not talk gibberish and really think about it for once. With all the uproar in the past few months/years of SWAT, NWFP as a whole and what-not, the question of Shariah has been in the headlines as much as any other hot-selling news has.

So i’ve been wondering, Wasn’t Pakistan built on the idea of a Muslim nation. If i am correct Pakistan is the only country which sought independence on the basis of Religion. Correct me if i’m wrong…

Muhammad Ali Jinnah defended the rights of Muslims of then Hindustan, and the result of the ongoing sacrifices and struggle of day and night was the nation of Pakistan. The answer lies within the name itself.

Then we have the issue of a secular nation that defends all its citizens and treats them equally. Isn’t that what Islam is? Islam outlines and states specifically that muslims must guard the places of non-muslims and defend them. Make it so safe that the minority (non-muslims) feel as much a part of the land as the majority (muslims) do. Isn’t that secular then?

The laws: When you have a nation whose foundation was Islam, ideals were Islam and ambition was Islam and in the name of Islam. Then why the delay to implement Islam? By enforcing laws of Islam i mean good things that we all want to see such as no interest, collective charity in the form of tax that benefits all (Much like social security benefits in USA), and the justice for all regardless of their faith, color, tongue or social level.

I know what most of us probably think, and i sometimes think that too that having Shariah would mean Mullahs running Open Courts and prosecuting anyone at will. But that is not Islam! Islam has a set of laws and rules that ensure that no one is done injustice. The judge does not have to be our typical Muslim. It can be any good muslim that can honestly carry out the orders prescribe under law.

To employ, shariah would not specifically mean everyone must grow a beard, and women do not get an education or step out of the house, etc. Islam encourages modesty and that everyone must get an education whether worldly or of a religious content. We need more scholars.

Shariah can be implemented in stages, like removing interest, then enforcing the practice of Tax for all citizens. If people want to look muslim, then mashaAllah that’s great. But the Shariah does not say everyone must look like a muslim (Beard, Abaya/Shalwar Kameez, etc…). I mean no disrespect here, i’m just citing an example.

If Islam is to be followed as it really is, not the fanatic Pseudo-Islam we see, but the genuine Islam of preaching and practice, hand-in-hand. Then shouldn’t a nation built in the name of Islam be following the laws of Islam?

If Pakistan implements an examplry(sp) Shariah, can it become an example for all Muslim world to follow? Saudi Arabia is indeed a nation where the most holiest sites for Muslims are located but that does not mean its governance does not have flaws. It has plenty. So there is room for a new example of Islam. Why can’t that be Pakistan?

Something to ponder over…please share healthy ideas. Shed light on it. Share your perspective.

And my humble request, please do not turn this thread into a hatefest or be disrespectful to others.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

You pointed at women getting higher education under Shariah Law. A modern day implementation of this was Somalia under Shariah Courts. Women were going to Universities and in one particular instance the Head of Shariah Courts visited one Women's College where he addressed a room full of students and was listening to issues raised by the girls.

Regarding tax, there would be no tax. Its just Zakaah, thats it. Wouldn't we all love a tax-free society?

Shariah Law is the Right of Allah on this Land and is an essential part of Ibadah.

India Tour of England 2011
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Re: Why Not Shariah?

My whole point is that it should be up to the people whether they want to live under sharia law or common law (non-shariah law). Imposing Sharia law on unwilling citizenry is a recipe for disaster.

Going by experience, people of Pakistan, including in NWFP, have historically always rejected religions political parties. In 2002, MMA won big, but in just four years, people of NWFP kicked them out brutally. MMA symbolized the same kind of Taliban style sharia laws that so many fantasize about. So, it would appear that people of Pakistan are not willing to live their lives under strict shariah laws.

On a personal level, how many guppies here, would be willing to live under sharia laws? Especially sharia laws that are interpreted and implemented by backward religious scholars who are mostly completely devoid of common sense? Not many, I would assume. Thats one reason why so many of guppies themselves live in western countries. Given a choice, most people want to make their own decisions on how they want to implement Islam in their lives; and not let a government or police to force-feed it to them.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

I am a Muslim and I would like to have Shariah law, but not under the molvi farce force which we have in Pakistan. Not under Qazi Hussein, Fazlur Rehman, Mullah Dadullah type of "Islamists". These guys are just politicians who exploit Islam, like Ziaul Haq did. If "Islamists" of Pakistan can come anywhere close to example pointed to by Sharaabi then I can begin to think about accepting it.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

I hear you loud and clear bro. I know what you mean. I feel that way too.

But what about the people that don't like the current laws being forced on them? There's so much injustice, trickery, and lying. And no one is held accoutable because the people that punish the wrongdoers and wrongdoers themselves. It's like a thief calling out a thief.

I mean the Shariah is not going to get into your house and see what you do in your personal space. It would be more of a national law/law of the land.

And yes i agree, it would be a sticky situation to conclude and agree on who puts the law and policies together.

Would a panel of Scholars and Experts of law be acceptable? Where the Scholars give an Islamic perspective unanimously, and Experts of the Law and politics advice them on what can/will be workable and what wont.

I mean there is a huge package of rights that comes under Shariah. I know it's hard to believe because we haven't seen any of them being practiced. Which is unfortunate...

It would sort of cover all grounds, a policy making one, and a devine law put into action.

????

Just my thoughts....I'm still learning from you all....

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

I think the point to start from would be education... education at school levels, at uni level, at community level. Enforcing anything on anyone is never going to work, like you mentioned. The Governemt needs to establish why and how the rules set in the Shariah are benificial in this world and the next, inshAllah.

Our goal has to be correct; its all about earning a golden ticket into heaven right? people have to want it, crave it, and do everything in their domains to get it... and al this would come about by education.

As an example; no one can force a man to offer 5 Salats in a mosque, but if he were to see what implications such a set up has on a society as a whole, what punishment exists for not doing so, the true essense of creating a connection with Allah SWT on an individual and society level, then and only then would they warm up to the idea and go voluntarily.

Only with education would ppl leave the obsession with money, and all the illegal path some take to attain more and more of it... bribery, corruption, exploitation; all would self extinguish if such Muslims truly feared God, if from time to time they recieved a reailty check of what the repercussions of such acts are, they would naturally leave it... for stealing deserves quite a harsh punishment in accordance to the shariah... so really, most sane ppl wouldn't want to indulge in it. Having said that, each situation has to be judged with taking all factors into accounts... there may be grey areas.

Women are asked to dress modestly in the Quran (as their adherence would lead to a betterment in their piety, as well as that of the society they live in), but the commandment BEFORE that is for men to lower their gazes... all these have to go hand in hand and all of these would only be achieved with proper education.

I pray that inshAllah one day the Shariah is established in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and all Muslim countries.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

Because secular laws guarantee the best ability to give fair and equal justice to all people. No country should have segregated laws, otherwise there is no equality.

Likewise, a theocracy will always violate someone's rights. No matter if everyone in the country is Muslim, Hindu, etc, a government should never base it's laws on the teaching of one group of people. Governments should remain secular and democratic, otherwise, it's just a dictatorship flying a different flag.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

If people learn to treat eachother with kindness, and view each other with respect, we don't need any religious mandates to keep us from "sinful," activities.

Likewise, women don't need to dress any certain way for the betterment of their society. There are many, many societies in which women dress with little more than a loin cloth, and they retain high respect, and an almost nonexistent rape rate.

The problem isn't religion or the lack thereof. It's us.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

The problem, for the most part is not actually with the laws already in place, but more so with poor implementation and poor funding and training to key institutions in the country, like the police. How many laws are there about dealing with criminals, about jailing them, about releasing them, about their treatment in the jail, etc. Laws about protocol and such. And how many get followed.

Problem is - if you think we need shariat, then you think the main problem is the laws in place.

But the main problem is how people DON'T follow those laws, how court systems don't uphold the law all the time, how people accept briberies and such. There are already laws against these major problems in Pakistan.

Interest-free Islamic banking is available in Pakistan, so I don't see why you need to overhaul a system of laws to bring something to Pakistan that is already in operation and usage...

Interest free banking will not eradicate the interest Pakistan has on its loans, and would you have that aide go down the tubes too? Because Shariat law would not allow a muslim country to take loans with interest, let alone loans from non-muslims. :)

It becomes a mess when you have people interpreting religion for you, because Islam has so many intricacies.

Would music be allowed? If so, what kind? If not, what are you going to do with all the people in your music industry sector who are making a living off these disciplines. Surely, you wont just let them fall?

Would the current TV channels be allowed? Same questions as above.

Would free speech be allowed on the television networks ? In other words - if someone wants to question the government, in your shariat case would be dominated by people like Qazi jee, etc - would they be able to tolerate open criticisms as Musharraf was doing for quite a while before PEMRA (he's still getting trashed, by the way)?

Is Shariat going to provide solid realistic solutions for ending or decreasing poverty?

What is Shariat's plan - in actual step by sttep process of dealing with orphans. And don't say "Shariat would allow orphans to find a home" - that's broad. How exactly would a shariat-oriented government get that accomplished?

What guarantee would women have that
a) they wouldn't be forced to wear any particular garment
b) they wouldn't be barred from holding jobs - any type of jobs that other men are doing essentially including fields that are not very female-dominated (minor exceptions could be reasonable)
c) they wouldn't be barred from going to school
d) they would be allowed full decision in who they marry
e) there would be some basic age limitation on what age girls marry SO that they can go to school
f) women wouldn't be physically or emotionally abused
etc etc.

What guarantee do you have there would be no dress code for men, beyond what already exists culturally?

How would this shariat government handle drug problems in the country?

Would people have the right to bear arms and ammunition, as they illegally do now?

Would there be a "religious police"? What boundaries would they have to obey?

Can police harass a male and female talking in public and demand nikkah papers from them?

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

I would die to defend the right of all citizens to be equal under the law. Hence, I would never support any other form of rule other than a secular democracy. People may keep their religion behind closed doors. We should all view ourselves as one family, instead of inserting label upon label and segregating each other to the point where we are alone.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

teggy ur posts and threads are always good to read and I am happy to see u coming up with this healthy discussion
1st
how can we have our own opinions on life and how to spend it when we have word of Allah. QURAN
Islam is not a religion, it is a 'deen' and in arabic deen 'means way of life'.
and being a muslim means that we choose to live as islam teaches us.
we are munfaq or hypocrites when we choose from islam what we like and leave what we dont like.
"poorey k poorey islam may shamil ho jao"
and if islam is a deen, 'a way of life' - how can one be a muslim if he is not living his life according to islam.

i would love to spend my life according to deen and truly support sheria law

but in our society to implement sheria law would be hard,
first we need to recognise what sheria law is
then introduce it in our society so people know abt it and don’t just condemn it with out knowing what it is.
We need to make sure that it is not to be manipulated by any one in any case and should be implemented in its true form.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

There's a difference between following your own convictions, and forcing those convictions onto others :)

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

well buddy for ur whole post there is simple awnser
"Deen main jabar nahy"
if sheria is implemented in its true form u wont get any problems as u mentioned. sheriat tells u to do things but does not infoce u to do. because u will be held responsible for what u did in after life.

e.g. if u tella girl to wear hijab, she asks why u explain to her, she wears it.
all good
but if u tell a girl to wear hijab, she asks why u explain to her, but she does not wear it. then u dont force her. u have done ur part and its up to her now, u wont be held responsible. she will go to her own grave.

i did not mean to offened women, just a simple example to explain.

Likes for sale.
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Re: Why Not Shariah?

what do u mean!

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

how secular law gaurantee!
how can some one comes with a better idea then what Allah says to do.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

Because the people should decide what's best for the people. Your beliefs should never rule over another simply because you think it's best. "Might is right, " is never morally justifiable, nor is it correct.

Secular laws guarantee the best possibility for equality under the law because they make no distinction based on religion. Religious law/theocracy does exactly that, thus segregating it's people and creating separate laws. That is the very opposite of equality.

And yes, your religious beliefs are your convictions. As such, they should remain private, as they do not pertain to anyone elses' religious convictions, just as mine should hold no power over anyone else.

I believe in equality for everyone under the law, not just the majority religious group.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

Teggy!

The first question is what is Shariah Law?

Second, What are the aims to implement it? TO maintain Islamic cultural identity? or to have a different economic system.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

well i pitty u
learn bit of islam 1st

islam teaches equallity for every one.
ans islam is not to stay behind doors, it needs be discussed as much as possible and should be learned as much as possible.
its way of life and one should learn how to live.

and the belives u r talkin abt do not belong to me or some person
it is what Allah says in Quran and I belive it.

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

aim is to do what Allah says

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Re: Why Not Shariah?

Shariah is the way of life for muslims according to Islam.

To maintain would be easy, we're not even there yet. Pakistan is a muslim country of the name, that's about as muslim as it gets.

Like PCG and other pointed out, there is so much evil in the country in every branch of the daily life, and 99.9% of it is totally against what Islam teaches.

This is what i add to it:

To those of us muslims (me included) who say This is acceptable and that is not. Well that's not really Islam then. You cannot cherrypick what you like, and dismiss what goes against your desires. Afterall, that's the struggle for muslims, ain't it?

Islam has to be followed fully.

All 5 pillars.

The last one being the struggle to establish the law of divine.

And because Pakistan was made on the basis of Islam, then Islam should be the law of the land.

If not, why not?

Do people choose not to follow Islam all the way?

Just like some argue (rightfully :)) that Religion should be kept to an individual level. That is fine. No one has an issue with that. We're not talking about massive conversions campaign or make laws that make it difficult to remain non-muslim.

You talk about the safety and treatment of people. How can we say it won't be loved until we adopt it? That's just as fair u know....You can't just assume.

In today's society, it would be quite difficult to pick one example of any nation and say 'look they followed shariah and what happened' because not a single nation has adopted the true way of Islam.

Look at Shariah as a national law. Because it takes out the confusion, and you will be required to live by the rules of the land. Just like we do anywhere else. You follow your local laws don't you?

I'd hate to say this but it's You Vs. Me kinda situation in this discussion. In a very good way. Not confrontational manner and let me tell you why i say that:

You (for example) say no involvement of religion in society and law, and you have those that support you. Fair Enough.

I (for example) say Pakistan was made on the name of Islam, and it is Islam they want to see implemented in every walk of life. And they have those who support them.

Who carries more weight? If you look back into the history and the time of Partition, the very slogan that got the masses to support the creation of Pakistan was 'La Ilaha IllAllah'...'There is no god but Allah'....what does that indicate to you?....

:)