Nadia, humor me and pick one: The Saddam Regime goes or the sanctions stay in place.
Nadia, You forget why there are sanctions against Iraq in the first place. Iraq is allowed to sell some oil to buy food and other stuff for the people under UN sanctions but he sells the oil and buys the stuff that Saddam needs to built his big statues and palaces and army. It is Saddam who kills Iraqis through deprivation of facilities which he and his cronies have themselves. Santions don't kill, Saddam's mis-use of funds does.
You defending of Saddam tells me you are least interested in Iraqi lifes. They are stats for you to quote in order to defend Saddam's permanent regine.
What is a illegal v/s legal war?
Utd, no humour! pick one..
(1) 1.7 million Iraqi children have died as a direct result of the sanctions regime sponsored by the Bush Administration
(2) UN report states 500,000 Iraqi civilians to die in the first few weeks of war.
(3) 500,000 Iraqi children on the verge of starvation because of the sanctions regime sponsored by the Bush Adminstration
Dil, I don't agree with those figures that the UN put out...unless a chemical or bio depot is hit.
Saddam has money and doesn't spend it on his people, lifting sanction will give Saddam more money…what makes you think he will spend it on Iraqis?? Food and medicine is available for Saddam to buy for his people, he chooses not.
Chann mahi, you should stop watching sensationalized cartoons from Fox news and other right wing news journals :-P
FYI, you DO NOT have any clue about Iraq and the effects of sanctions that were masterminded by the Bush Adminstration after Operation 'Desert Storm'. Like nadia mentioned earlier none of you seem to comprehend the ground reality!
DHP: The ground reality is that you are worng and have been since 1987.
Dil, Whjat don't you understand, Saddam uses the Iraqi peopel as pawns for his own gain. You CAN'T deny that Saddam spends billions of dollars on himself rather than his people, you CAN'T deny he is brutel dictator, but somehow you CAN Blame the U.S. for what Saddam does.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Nadia, humor me and pick one: The Saddam Regime goes or the sanctions stay in place.
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UTD, check again - apparently, there will only be a "review" of sanctions once Saddam is gone. No lifting of sanctions, just a "review". So, Saddam goes - but sanctions still stay.
Like i have stated before... it's always been a shifting of the goalposts.
CH, Iraqis have suffered courtesy of US foreign policy’s, first with the Iran/Iraq war (hundreds of thousands died on both sides) supposedly to prevent the spread of the Iranian revolution, than with Operation Desert Storm with many hundreds of innocent civilians dying.. i.e Al-Amaria sheltar, Highway of death to Basra.. than with the US support for uprisings in the north and south of the Iraq (An Act of Aggression in International Law), than their silence and inaction when the Iraqi kurds were attacked by Iraqi forces, than there was the most Evil and Draconian sanctions policy implemented upon any country, which the UN, Aid Organisations, Political Analysts, International Statesmen have admitted have led to the deaths of over 1.7 million Iraqis. 
And now the Bush Administration wants to attack again, this time purely to oust Sadam and install another puppet administration so as to place control of the Iraqi Oil industry with US Oil conglomerates.
Utd, Sadam is/was a brutal dictator and should leave power. But that does not mean that the Bush Adminstration has the right to attack Iraq perhaps causing the deaths of thousands of civilians, just because of one man. The Iraqis should be allowed to sort their own affairs out. As for any alleged WMD let the UN experts carry on their duties WITHOUT blatant interferance from the Bush Administration. IF any WMD is found than the arms inspectors must destroy these which is exactly what theyve been authorised to do.
ChannMahi,
This discussion is moot from the point where you stated "he sells the oil and buys the stuff that Saddam needs to built his big statues and palaces and army". i have refuted this so many times in previous threads, i don't even know what to say right now! You can ask the majority of the American Guppies - we have discussed this issue to its death. If you are able to provide one independent source to corroborate the above statement of yours, please be my guest.
>>Santions don't kill, Saddam's mis-use of funds does.<<
Man. What do you want - a report by the UN Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights? Would you be willing to read what they have to say about sanctions and Saddam or will you dismiss that as propaganda?
Yaar, this is getting us nowhere. i know the drill - whatever source i post, EVEN if it is sponsored by the UN Security Council, you will dismiss it as propaganda.
Nadia,
Perhaps your understanding of the sanctions and their review could be clarified by Bush’s comments today:
THE PRESIDENT: Along those lines, let me make one clarification on my statement. I think that no matter how Mr. Saddam is dealt with, the goal of disarming Iraq still stays the same, regardless of who is in charge of the government. And that’s very important for the Iraqi people to know.
And I also want to assure Silvio that should we require military action, shortly after our troops go in, will go food and medicine and supplies to the Iraqi people. We will, of course, win militarily, if we have to. But we’ll also want to make sure that we win the peace, as well.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030130-10.html
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Originally posted by Ohioguy: *And I also want to assure Silvio that should we require military action, shortly after our troops go in, will go food and medicine and supplies to the Iraqi people. ...] But we'll also want to make sure that we win the peace, as well. *
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OG as much as you are one of the handfuls i respect on this board, i hope you'll forgive me for attempting to retain some scepticism regarding this latest verbal overture of Bush's. For 12 years, the embargo has been placed upon Iraq, including the years that Bush has remained in power. He has had an excellent opportunity to have the sanctions lifted and prove that his country is morally superior than other govts. that utilize innocent civilians as pawns. He didn't. So, why should i believe him now? He should have sent in "food and medicine and supplies" long, long ago.
At any rate, let's see whether or not he holds true to his word - i hope i am proven wrong and i live to see the day that the Security Council lifts ALL non-military sanctions from Iraq, with or without Saddam.
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
Nelson mandela needs a day job.
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Suddenly the great Mandela has become an Anti America. Just waiting for the accusation to make him a Bin Laden admirer or find the virtual link between him and Al Qaida.
OG:shortly after our troops go in, will go food and medicine and supplies to the Iraqi people
If they actually cared about the millions of Iraqis dying because of the lack of food and medicine than they would of sent these goods long ago, they also would of removed the sanctions. At the end of the day, the Bush Adminstration cannot fool the world with 'Fake' humanitarian policies!
Nadia,
It is my belief that with Saddam gone the sanctions are moot.
Sanctions will exist to prevent Iraq from buying long range missles, chemical weapons components and other items directly related to WMD.
Some time ago I dug up a speech by Noam Chomsky prior to the 1991 Gulf War. He was ADVOCATING sanctions as a peaceful way of resolving the conflict. In 1991 it was felt that the sanctions would make Saddam comply and disarm. NOBODY thought that they would drag on this long. People simply underestimated Saddams tyranny, and his willingness to let his people suffer to maintain his power which is secured by these weapons.
If Bush does not rapidly involve all available means to heal the Iraqi peoples' suffering I will join you in the protests. But if you look at Afghanistan, which also had sanctions, the relief was fast and dramatic.
I remember projections that in the winter of 01/02 that up to 6 million Afghans might die. The Taliban had thrown out most Western aid. That did not happen, as aid flooded into the country. If you can find any way that the US did not assist in the humanitarian relief in Afghanistan, then I would think that you might have a case.....But to the best of my knowledge everything promised to the Afghan people in the way of outside relief has been done without impediments.
The piece I had you read regarding a "review" of sanctions was a set of recommendations by a washington think tank. The purpose of the "review" was to have paperwork in place from day one to remove sanctions, or waive laws specifically so that relief could be expedited. The motive for proposing the "review" was precisely for the purpose of having at running start towards relief as Saddams plane departs Iraqi airspace, or as his smoldering bunker is identified.....
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Originally posted by Dil he Pakistani: *
OG:*shortly after our troops go in, will go food and medicine and supplies to the Iraqi people
If they actually cared about the millions of Iraqis dying because of the lack of food and medicine than they would of sent these goods long ago, they also would of removed the sanctions. At the end of the day, the Bush Adminstration cannot fool the world with 'Fake' humanitarian policies!
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That is truly a ridiculous argument. You might as well argue that the US should have sent Saddam a few dozen nuclear weapons so that he didn't have to spend so much money on his weapons programs and could have bought food and medicine for his people instead.
myvoice, Madelaine Albright proved after the last war that the administration did not care about the humanitarian effects of the sanctions... here it is again to refresh your memory!
"It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it."
Her response to a May 11, 1996 60 Minutes question about the over half a million children killed by the [Iraqi] sanctions
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Originally posted by Dil he Pakistani: *
OG:*shortly after our troops go in, will go food and medicine and supplies to the Iraqi people
If they actually cared about the millions of Iraqis dying because of the lack of food and medicine than they would of sent these goods long ago, they also would of removed the sanctions. At the end of the day, the Bush Adminstration cannot fool the world with 'Fake' humanitarian policies!
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DHP, How many medicine and food Muslim ummah has dropped and sent to Iraq? Since there are sanctions against Iraq and they don't get the medicine but there is no sanctions against rest of the muslim countries...how many of them have bought and given medicine to Iraqis? These figures of millions of kids is a convenient political rhetoric to beat your opponents with and a good rallying point but at the end of the day, if Saddam and YOU had a priority to save Iraqi lifes there were enough ways and resources to do. but no that is the duty of America. America did save millions of kids in Afghanistan and Pakistan camps two winters ago who otehrwise would have parished due to hunger and cold, but did I ever hear any of you mention that fact?
If a muslim is saved Allah wanted him to live but if a muslim dies America killed him. You need to get out of the "ground reality" because it is burried 10 feet under sand.
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*Originally posted by ChannMahi: *
DHP, How many medicine and food Muslim ummah has dropped and sent to Iraq? Since there are sanctions against Iraq and they don't get the medicine but there is no sanctions against rest of the muslim countries...how many of them have bought and given medicine to Iraqis? These figures of millions of kids is a convenient political rhetoric to beat your opponents with and a good rallying point but at the end of the day, if Saddam and YOU had a priority to save Iraqi lifes there were enough ways and resources to do. but no that is the duty of America. America did save millions of kids in Afghanistan and Pakistan camps two winters ago who otehrwise would have parished due to hunger and cold, but did I ever hear any of you mention that fact?
If a muslim is saved Allah wanted him to live but if a muslim dies America killed him. You need to get out of the "ground reality" because it is burried 10 feet under sand.
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If America got what it wanted then it's really a cheap deal.
And it did get what it wanted. The pipeline is under construction, buddy.
Channmahi, What the ummah gave or not gave is not the question here. This is about the Bush Adminstrations policies on Iraq which have turned it into one of the poorest countries in the region. This is about how millions of iraqis have lost their lives due to the administrations failed foreign policies, this is about the sensationalized propoganda emanating from the cartoon news channels which many people believe. Its about finding out the TRUE motives behind war against Iraq… WHY hasn’t any action been taken in the last 10 years especially if there is a danger to the world from Iraqi WMD ??? Why all of a sudden does the President decide " Right, we must attack Iraq as it has WMD " At the end of the day ground reality states that its all about OIL and nothing else but OIL 