Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
So if MQM does not become part of future government, they will start killing innocent people? What kind of logic is this? It looks like it is not a political party but bunch of thugs and murderers who only know the language of violence.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
MQM should be a part of the Government. But they should cut the hate policies and move forward like a uniting force. They could learn a thing or two from PPP and PML who have wider bases than just one city/area. I know the people that vote for MQM are good at heart, it's the top leadership of MQM that is in question. The party in itself, is another political force.
MQM has started their political office all over Pakistan. They are representatives of poor, lower middle class, middle class and non feudal upper class population, so join them and do whatever to become part of their policies and politics :).
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
do whatever to become gundas lol
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
MQM has started their political office all over Pakistan. They are representatives of poor, lower middle class, middle class and non feudal upper class population, so join them and do whatever to become part of their policies and politics :).
you mean repz of india?
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
you mean repz of india?
Do you mean PPP whose leader 'Shear-e-Punjab who wanted to impregnate every girl in Lahore sitting in his Governor house', once was talking about entering Pakistan on Indian tanks?
Or you mean PML(N) whose industrial interest in India was so important that his leaders started campaign against Pakistan army as rogue army because they were upset about Pakistan army Kargil adventure and wanted to make army weak?
Or are you talking about NAP whose father leader, Ghaffar Khan preferred to be called as Ghandhi of Frontier, and whose loyalty always stayed with India and Indian congress?
Or are you talking about Jamaet-e-Islami whose leadership never accepted Pakistan from heart and were always against creation of Pakistan (even his leadership branded Jinnah as Kafir just because he was demanding saparate homeland for Muslims?
Well, the biggest problem of some Pakistanis who themselves represent India or foreign powers in Pakistan is that they are quick in labelling other Pakistanis as foreign agents or representative of India. In fact it is because of these people, Pakistan is so unstable and divided on ethnic grounds. Soon Pakistanis would start recognising these dividing forces in Pakistan who brand others as foreign agents or whatever, sooner Pakistan would be a united and stronger country.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
Altaf owns MQM like a Jagirdar owns his jagir. That way MQM is no different than other parties in the country. We could blame the parties, or blame the Party system. Funny we call this "Parliamentary system". It should be called fiefdom system. You die, and your son (or daughter or wife or husband) only be the next chair. Congress of India, to BDeshi A-League, to PPP to PML-N,O,P,Q....XYZ all do the same.
I hope one day Pakistani people get rid of this MQM like Jagiri party system. May be in 200 years!
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
MQM has started their political office all over Pakistan. They are representatives of poor, lower middle class, middle class and non feudal upper class population, so join them and do whatever to become part of their policies and politics .
Saleem Bro! That's all fine and dandy. It is not their offices all over the country that are important. What really is important as to what this party does in its heartland. Karachi.
So far this party has done nothing much to rid the "remote controller". Until and unless the control system of this party changes, it will continue to be a just another jagiri party.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
Saleem Bro! That's all fine and dandy. It is not their offices all over the country that are important. What really is important as to what this party does in its heartland. Karachi.
So far this party has done nothing much to rid the "remote controller". Until and unless the control system of this party changes, it will continue to be a just another jagiri party.
Well, no one like to be in power using remote control. I think that it is good for Pakistan that political party figure head stays out of direct political power. Just imagine, in 2002 Musharraaf tried to give power to PPP (Amin Fahim) but BB who was their political figure head did not allowed that, why?
I think that all parties should be run this way, where their political figure head is not direct stake holder in power or hold political position if the party get into power.
I do not understand why people are so worried about Karachi when majority of people in Karachi are happy and support him. If anyone lives in Karachi, they have to accept that the party of Majority in Karachi is MQM, just like anyone living in Lahore have to accept that party of majority in Lahore is Punjab Municipal League (CTBT). I am sure that MQM is different from other parties, and they would not send their candidates from Karachi on seats in Punjab or at other places and would choose candidate from local community.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
Do you mean PPP whose leader 'Shear-e-Punjab who wanted to impregnate every girl in Lahore sitting in his Governor house', once was talking about entering Pakistan on Indian tanks?
Or you mean PML(N) whose industrial interest in India was so important that his leaders started campaign against Pakistan army as rogue army because they were upset about Pakistan army Kargil adventure and wanted to make army weak?
Or are you talking about NAP whose father leader, Ghaffar Khan preferred to be called as Ghandhi of Frontier, and whose loyalty always stayed with India and Indian congress?
Or are you talking about Jamaet-e-Islami whose leadership never accepted Pakistan from heart and were always against creation of Pakistan (even his leadership branded Jinnah as Kafir just because he was demanding saparate homeland for Muslims?
Well, the biggest problem of some Pakistanis who themselves represent India or foreign powers in Pakistan is that they are quick in labelling other Pakistanis as foreign agents or representative of India. In fact it is because of these people, Pakistan is so unstable and divided on ethnic grounds. Soon Pakistanis would start recognising these dividing forces in Pakistan who brand others as foreign agents or whatever, sooner Pakistan would be a united and stronger country.
you talked about PPP, NAP, PML(N), jamaat-e-islami, but you no where mentioned about MQM. or ou think its a heavenly angelic party
if you support MQM that is different. but sorry i dont support any party (no pml q shoe is in my good books). whereas for MQM, well you better dig what their quaid said on the creation of Pakistan.
the problem is not what you mentioned, the problem is people take these political parties as their religion, and the so called Quaids/leaders of these parties as their khuda. "un kay leya marnay marnay per tayar".
Think Pakistan, and live as Pakistani!
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
One of the slogans of this party is “ham ko manzil nahi rahnuma chahiye” 
Do whatever you can to get rid of “remote controller”.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
you talked about PPP, NAP, PML(N), jamaat-e-islami, but you no where mentioned about MQM. or ou think its a heavenly angelic party if you support MQM that is different. but sorry i dont support any party (no pml q shoe is in my good books). whereas for MQM, well you better dig what their quaid said on the creation of Pakistan.
the problem is not what you mentioned, the problem is people take these political parties as their religion, and the so called Quaids/leaders of these parties as their khuda. "un kay leya marnay marnay per tayar". Think Pakistan, and live as Pakistani!
No, I gave answer to your post where you wrote 'repz of India' when I talked about MQM as repz of middle Pakistan.
I think that there is no one more Pakistani as other Pakistani and thus no one have this right to label any other Pakistani as repz of foreign enemy country. Because this game can be played by all and in that case, all would be repz of foreign enemy countries. Actually, I believe that those who play this game of accusation and blame, are actually themselves agents of foreign enemy countries who want to destabilise and disunite Pakistan.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
Well, no one like to be in power using remote control. I think that it is good for Pakistan that political party figure head stays out of direct political power. Just imagine, in 2002 Musharraaf tried to give power to PPP (Amin Fahim) but BB who was their political figure head did not allowed that, why?
I think that all parties should be run this way, where their political figure head is not direct stake holder in power or hold political position if the party get into power.
I do not understand why people are so worried about Karachi when majority of people in Karachi are happy and support him. If anyone lives in Karachi, they have to accept that the party of Majority in Karachi is MQM, just like anyone living in Lahore have to accept that party of majority in Lahore is Punjab Municipal League (CTBT). I am sure that MQM is different from other parties, and they would not send their candidates from Karachi on seats in Punjab or at other places and would choose candidate from local community.
I think we are on the same page. Your example of Fahim simply shows that MQM is no different than PPP.
Both of these (and every other party in the region) do not allow internal democracy that results in a regular change in the leadership.
People start out as leaders like Fuedal Fidel as young reactionaries, and then they only leave when they no longer can breathe. And even when they die (at least poltically), they have Raul Castro to Rahul Gandhi, to Bilawal Zardari (now turned Bilawal Bhutto). Thus the story goes.
MQM being the party of educated elite should have had 3 to 4 changes in the top leadership by now. Fresh blood would have meant fresh ideas.
Instead this party forces a vote block like any other jagiri party. Off course many people vote for it just like those poor Sindhis living on Mumtaz Bhutto's estate.
Then anyone can say well all those Sindhis are so happy to vote for Mumtaz Bhutto, so why bother?
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
I think we are on the same page. Your example of Fahim simply shows that MQM is no different than PPP.
Both of these (and every other party in the region) do not allow internal democracy that results in a regular change in the leadership.
People start out as leaders like Fuedal Fidel as young reactionaries, and then they only leave when they no longer can breathe. And even when they die (at least poltically), they have Raul Castro to Rahul Gandhi, to Bilawal Zardari (now turned Bilawal Bhutto). Thus the story goes.
MQM being the party of educated elite should have had 3 to 4 changes in the top leadership by now. Fresh blood would have meant fresh ideas.
Instead this party forces a vote block like any other jagiri party. Off course many people vote for it just like those poor Sindhis living on Mumtaz Bhutto's estate.
Then anyone can say well all those Sindhis are so happy to vote for Mumtaz Bhutto, so why bother?
Fahim is not head figure of PPP, so your example makes no sense.
As for changing leaders, that is needed when leader is also candidate for political posts. Else, they are just spiritual or figurehead leader. No need for change in this situation.
As for what Altaf said about creation of Pakistan, I believe that it was portrayed in twisted way, and that is all. If one portrays sayings in that way putting meanings out of context, to what it is not, than all leaders are traitors. Actually, when people start fiddling with meanings and context of sayings, than Islam also becomes religion of terrorism, but that is not.
If anyone starts trying to prove leaders as traitors from their sayings and using the meaning of sayings out of context, than I believe that all leaders, from anywhere in the world can proven as traitors to their country.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
No one is proving him traitor, he himself did by his actions and words.
What did he meant when he said "the division of the sub-continent was the greater, greatest blunder in the history of the mankind"
So please care to explain us what it means in the context (whatever you are trying to prove with that in context thing).
And don't make lame comparisons. The fact is that he is a traitor, he hates Pakistan, he will do everything possible to divide people. It is so strange how mqm followers blindly worship this guy as if he is khuda. Evidence after evidence is thrown infront of them and still they come forward and praise and defend him.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
Why MQM gets votes **
Urdu speaking citizens of Karachi , Hyderabd, and Sakhar feel impowered and think they have got some kind of identity.
**and what can be done about it ?
Easy Karachi aur Hyderabad kay mohajir ilaqoon per atom bomb gira do. No ?
I am being sarcastic. When are we going to learn to respect politcal views of others ?
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
Lusi bro! It was not right for Saleem sahib to bring in traitor thingy. This discussion is not about Altaf being bad or good. It is about the regular change in the leadership of political parties.
So let's avoid making this thread as pro or anti-Altaf. We are just talking about how to change MQM another parties' jagiri nature and jagirdar leadership.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
^^ I just replied him, I am not sure why he brought the traitor thingy in?
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
No, I gave answer to your post where you wrote 'repz of India' when I talked about MQM as repz of middle Pakistan.
I think that there is no one more Pakistani as other Pakistani and thus no one have this right to label any other Pakistani as repz of foreign enemy country. Because this game can be played by all and in that case, all would be repz of foreign enemy countries. Actually, I believe that those who play this game of accusation and blame, are actually themselves agents of foreign enemy countries who want to destabilise and disunite Pakistan.
first explain it to me what do you mean by "middle pakistan"?
no one is labeling anyone anything, they themselves showed "loyalty", or do you disagree with the fact that they never said anything about creation of pakistan?
besides, true political reps of pakistan should be in pakistan! what are they doing outside of pakistan? and is their any hope that they ever going to come to pakistan (because i want to know what circumstances are stopping him)?
whereas, why these reps of pakistan want to conjoin with PML(N) and ppp which according to you are corrupt in their own ways?
ps. lol..where did got the idea that i am calling someone any neighboring countries agent? (i thought you were pro Musharraf, but this "enemy country"...aww brother you should believed Musharraf that they have stabilized relationships as they have stabilized economy).
-suggestion: stop proving your ethnicity, and also stop defending these political parities because all of them collectively brought Pakistan on the brink of a constitutional, economical and social crisis.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
first explain it to me what do you mean by "middle pakistan"?
From middle Pakistan I mean, Pakistan that is below elites and above those poor that have no say (as they are considered kammis, haris, kissan ... whose votes are in the pocket of feudal). MQM is working to get those poor independent from the clutches of feudal.
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no one is labeling anyone anything, they themselves showed "loyalty", or do you disagree with the fact that they never said anything about creation of pakistan?
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Yea, Altaf said that creation of Pakistan was mistake ... but that was in context of what happened to overall people who made Pakistan (that is Muslims of India, as only half are in Pakistan). But that does not mean that creation of Pakistan in principle was mistake. So, one should see what something is said and in what context.
Obviously, when one see that Muslims of subcontinent are divided and now live in 3 places as 3 different entities than we can say in that context that creation of Pakistan caused division of Muslim population while it did not divided Hindu population of subcontinent, and in that context it was mistake ... maybe ABC grouping, that was first option Muslim league demanded and was much better solution, but congress did not accepted ABC grouping and pushed Muslim League into a situation where Muslims got divided in three entities .. part in Bangla Desh, part in Pakistan and part in India. Further, many especially in Punjab got killed, many Muslims women raped and huge population had to move from East Punjab to West Punjab.
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besides, true political reps of pakistan should be in pakistan! what are they doing outside of pakistan? and is their any hope that they ever going to come to pakistan (because i want to know what circumstances are stopping him)?
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Well, Altaf is not representative of Pakistan assembly, he represent Pakistan as any citizen of Pakistan that lives outside Pakistan. It is his party that represents Pakistan assembly. Representative of Pakistan assemblies (or any public office) should be in Pakistan so that they can represent Pakistanis of their constituency in government of Pakistan. For instance, BB should have always stayed in Pakistan as she was not only political figurehead of her party, but was representative of her constituency, but she never did. On the other hand, Bilawal is only figurehead and not representing any constituency of Pakistan, so he does not have to be in Pakistan (if he desires).
I do not know that if and when Altaf would return to Pakistan, but I believe he is not in Pakistan because of any reason (like BB, who was fugitives, was wanted in Pakistan but was living outside Pakistan to avoid arrest, forgiveness because of NRO helped her come back). As for Altaf, I think he is doing what is required of political figurehead very effectively, even when he lives in London.
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whereas, why these reps of pakistan want to conjoin with PML(N) and ppp which according to you are corrupt in their own ways?
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Well, Punjab Municipal Party is supported by Punjab's cities and thus represents Punjabi urban population. PPP is a big party that has support across Pakistan rural areas. Whatever the reason, these parties that has corrupt thug feudal as leaders and kammis, mazdoors, kisaans, haris, petty criminals, and many ignorant as voters, and thus cannot be ignored, because they are big parties.
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ps. lol..where did got the idea that i am calling someone any neighboring countries agent? (i thought you were pro Musharraf, but this "enemy country"...aww brother you should believed Musharraf that they have stabilized relationships as they have stabilized economy).
[/quote]
Well, when I wrote:
[quote]
MQM has started their political office all over Pakistan. They are representatives of poor, lower middle class, middle class and non feudal upper class population, so join them and do whatever to become part of their policies and politics
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You replied:
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you mean repz of india?
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What that means? I believe that it means that when I wrote they are representative of poor, lower middle class, middle class and non feudal upper class population ... you questioned me .. telling me that what I mean ... representative of India .. right or not? Well, I understand that is what you mean and that is what I believe all would understand ...
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-suggestion: stop proving your ethnicity, and also stop defending these political parities because all of them collectively brought Pakistan on the brink of a constitutional, economical and social crisis.
[/quote]
Well, I am not proving my ethnicity, I am just trying to show my political support. If you think that supporting particular political party is showing ethnicity than it is you who are putting Pakistanis in compartment of political ethnicity, not me.
Re: Why MQM gets votes and what can be done about it [split: Election Results]
I think MQM like parties should be all over the country but deviod of ethnic and religious biases. And Imran Khan should join MQM to force Altaf to leave it.
Lol! I think you are having a slight mistake here. This is Imran Khan not Javed MIandad. A big difference. He would rather hang himself before joing these crooks!