Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Peace Mughal1
This is a clear fabrication … You are saying things with absolutely no knowledge …
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
My understanding of predestination which is only gained from indirect influence of being around Islamic subjects (i say this to make it obvious that i may be wrong for which people are welcome to correct me)
I think its both dua and predestination, my reasoning is that she was destined to make dua
We have free will but this is within the knowledge of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala, and as such pre destination is for everything that happens
The issue about zidd is more about wanting things which are bad for you in Islam, its perfectly ok to go back and again for something[like forgiveness, not material] from Allah Ta’ala. So in my thinking we will have been predestined to do zidd [good or bad] but our free will chose it. We have free will but it does not negate pre destination because pre destination is from the Knowledge of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala which is Absolute
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Hadeeth of Thawbaan, the Prophet SAWS said: “Nothing repels Al-Qadr (Divine preordainment) except the supplication. And nothing increases one in age, except piety. And indeed, the individual will be forbidden (his) provision due to a sin that befalls him.”
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
So zidd based duas do come true?
Dua can change the person who is written in your naseeb?? confused
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
@mughal Just a reply to your post. You say that Allah did not create us to be His slaves. “And I did not Create the jinn and humans except they should worship Me.” [Noble Quran 51:56]
The Qur’an clearly states that He created us to worship Him. A slave worships His master. We are His slaves.
You also say that this world is not a test.
"And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds. But if you were to say to them: “You shall indeed be raised up after death,” those who disbelieve would be sure to say, “This is nothing but obvious magic.” [Noble Quran 11:7]
The Quran clearly states that Allah has created all we call the universe as a test for us. These are the words of Allah Himself. You should be careful what you say regarding what He says or doesn’t. As for Qadr or Destiny we know it to be true because there are hadith which state that the Prophet pbuh believed it and taught us to believe it too. I’m not sure what Qur’an you’re reading or what translation but unfortunately its wrong. The definition of MUSLIM is “one who submits to Allah”. If you submit to someone you are their slave.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Have you ever seen a relevant post from @Mughal1? 
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
peace dear psyah, I am saying things after study of things over several decades of my life. You have yet to get out of trap of mullaism. It is true that mullahs have misinterpreted and misrepresented quranic concepts. The question is, did they do it out of ignorance or deliberately? I think basically to begin with they did it out of ignorance but as they discovered the ways to use the revelation as a tool to gain edge on others, things took off in that direction and they kept on going that way so we ended up where we are today. All this because mullahs did not educate themselves about realities of real world and tried to interpret the scripture through their make beliefs. The result is ample contradictions within their ideas and within their ideas and real world realities. The evidence is all the religious discussions on this forum and on other similar forums. No one of religious people knows why in their religion any particular creed is adopted but rest of people know that they have adopted them to trap people into their nonsense and it is a big business for them. For rulers it keep the road clear and the same goes for money lenders. This is why all rest of people want religions kept out of social, political and economic issues. This is what separation between religion and state is all about. So long as mullahs are getting what they want, they also want to keep religion out of state business. If you are unaware of what is written about religion by various people then it will be good idea for you to get familiar with it so that you have proper context in mind when you speak about religion in general. My problem with mullahs is that they have misinterpreted the message of Allah and misrepresented it to mankind.
If you have read the quran, it tells us Allah is full of love and mercy for his human creatures as well as he does not inflict people with cruelty, the question is, why did mullahs tell people they should fear Allah if Allah is full of love and mercy and that he does not inflict mankind with cruelty? Is Allah a monster or something that people should be afraid of him? Simply telling people to fear Allah because he is big has serious negative connotations. It means we should be fearing things bigger than ourselves or more powerful than us. Can you or any of your mullahs explain away this contradiction?
Coming to predestination we have same problem. No where Allah tells us in the quran that he knows what we are going to do because he has already decided for us what we are going to do. So where did the idea of God making people do things came from when he has stated clearly that it is people who do what they like because they have been granted ability of choice and that they are held responsible for their actions therefore they are made to face consequences of their actions in this world as well as in the next?
Let us look at the real problem in this case which is, is knowledge of God perfect in each and every sense that there is no possibility of change in what God knows and as he knows it already? The answer is, no that is not the case. It is because if God always knew he was going to do something then it was not possible for God not to do it. Why not? Because if there comes about any change in doing anything at all by God then that will mean he did not have the prior knowledge of it. You see you either have choice or perfect knowledge, you cannot have both. Having ability to choose one thing instead of the other eliminates prior knowledge. If God always knew he was going to create this world then if he did not create it due to his ability to choice then what will that mean regarding him having prior knowledge? This is why the idea that mullahs pushed forth about predestination was wrong. No such idea is put forth by the quran. The quran intead tells something else which I explained in the provided link for those who are not slaves of mullahs because they are interested in learning and questioning what makes no sense to discover better and better explanation of things. This is what science is all about. This is why it is said, follow the evidence not make beliefs or dogmas particularly when those make beliefs or dogmas are very harmful and destructive for mankind. This is the reason madraasas are becoming very dangers places because they instead of raising hufaaz of the quran and hadith and educating children to become critical thinkers to meet challenges that face ummah are raising senseless fanatic slaves of mullahs whom they indoctrinate with doctored indoctrination.
Mullahs have created make beliefs and then interpreted the quran and hadith to justify them. This is what they have been teaching masses and that is why people like you and others first go back to your make beliefs and then try to explain things in that context using the quran, the hadith and the fiqh. Mullahs came up with make beliefs with help of people who came to islam from other already existing religions whom people of deen of islam failed to educate properly as to what actual deen of islam was after the messenger of Allah passed away. Therefore instead of they becoming proper muslims were able to turn muslims their kind of people save odd bits and pieces. This is why what we have today is not pure islam but an adulterated form of it. This is the adultery the quran equates with shirk ie mixing truth with falsehood. Religions and sects come about due to mixing of truth with falsehood.
Similarly mullahs have misinterpreted and misrepresented many terms used in the quran and they covered up the actual contexts in which the quran talks about things. You are not going to know all this till you study things from different angles which you have not done yet as is clear from your posts on this forum. This is not your fault but that is the way world works ie we learn from our own environments wherein we are born. Some of us are lucky that we came across other people or that they came among us so interaction made us better aware of things which forced us to readjust our positions to more comfortable foundation because human mind does not accept what it feels uncomfortable with as the truth when it knows better. I know people here do not know many things about which I talk because I have a different life experience than them in some respects.
I myself hold same make beliefs as others regarding things about which I have failed to learn in my life time. It is part of natural scheme of things so there is nothing wrong with being ignorant about things but once someone brings better understanding of things to us about some of the things we must do all we can to learn that and keep adding to our knowledge because it is better to know about things than remain ignorant about them. We are born knowing nothing at all but gradually we learn load of things, some more than others. This is what we should keep doing to the best of our abilities. If we do not let each other speak because we do not like what others tell us then world is doomed because humanity then becomes trapped by its own making. This is why this ummah became stagnant and regressed instead of developing and growing by making progress. We should be part of solutions not problems.
regards and all the best.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Dear Thornewood, please see the links provided in my post no 32 when you have time or may be it is better that you take out some time if at all possible for you to read what I have explained.
regards and all the best.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Dear Thornewood, please see the links provided in my post no 36 when you have time or may be it is better that you take out some time if at all possible for you to read what I have explained. regards and all the best.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
musalmaan kehlwaane waalun ke liye zaroori hai woh deene islam ko saheeh tarah se samajhne ki poori poori koshish karen aur deene islam ko khud samajh kar doosrun ko samjhaane main lag jaayen. is ke siwaa deene islam ka saheeh paighaam aage pohnchaane ka koi aur pur aman tareeqa nahin hai. isi main musalamaanu ki apni bhalayee bhi hai aur deegar insaaniyat ki bhi. is ke siwaa har raasta khoon kharaabe ka raasta hai aur insaaniyat ki tareekh par agar ghor kiya jaaye to yahee baat saamne aati hai. yeh baat atal hai keh deene islam ko duniya se koi taaqat bhi mitaa nahin sakti. albata agar log is ko saheeh tarah se apnaa len to insaaniyat apni intahayee oonchaayee tak pohnch sakti hai.
deene islam ko samajhna aur samjhaana bahot hi mehnat aur mushaqqat talab kaam hai jo log karna nahin chahte aur is ke baghair khushgawaar, baa izzat aur pur aman zindagi ki tamana rakhte hen jo kabhi bhi is tarah poori hone waali nahin hai. har khawaaish amal ki motaaj hai khud bakhud poori nahin hoti, albatta itni baat zaroor hai keh jitne ziyaada log deen ko khud saheeh tarah se samajh kar doosrun ko samjhaayen ge deene islam utna hi jaldi haqeeqat ban kar hamaare saamne aaye ga. asal masla behrhaal yahee hai keh asal deene islam hai kia, woh jo ham ko mullah bataa rahe hen yaa us ka ilm ham ne kho diya hai aur ab us ko nay sire se talaash karne ki zaroorat hai. is maamle main is dor ke kuchh naamwar logoon ne badaa kaam kiya hai jis ke nateeje main un logoon ne ham ko kuchh baaten batayee hen jin par mazeed kaam kar ke ham asal haqeeqat se phir se aashnaa ho sakte hen.
1)sir syed ne ham ko quran ko haqaaiq ki bunyaad par samajhne ki dawat di. yeh baat ham ko pakki bunyaad fraham karti hai deene islam ko quran se samajhne ke liye.
2)farahi ne ham ko quran ko is ke apne sayaaqo sabaaq main samajhne ki dawat di. yeh baat bhi ham ko pakki bunyaad farahm karti hai deene islam ko quran se samajhne ke liye.
3)iqbal ne ham ko yeh dawat di keh islam deen hai mazhab nahin hai. is liye is ko is sayaaqo sabaaq main samjho, yeh baat bhi ham ko bunyaad fraham karti hai quran ki roshni main asal deene islam ko samajhne ki.
4)iqbal ne ham ko yeh dawat bhi di keh deene islam us dastooro aur un qawaneen ka naam hai jo quran ke diye ge usoolun ke mutaabiq haqaaiq ki roshni main ummat khud banaati hai har dor ki munaasbat se.
yeh sab baaten apni asal ke lihaaz se quran hi main mojood hen in hazraat ne sirf in ko hamaare saamne pesh kiya hai. jo shakhs in usoolun ko saamne rakhe ga asal deene islam us par khul jaaye ga.
ummat main ikhtilaaf mazhab ke thekedaarun ne daala hai jin ko deene islam naam ki cheez ka kuchh bhi ilm nahin hai. awaam ne khud unpadh aur laa ilm hone ki wajah se in logoon ke peechhe chal kar in logoon ke haath mazboot kiye hen jis ki khud awaam hi ko sakht sazaa mil rahee hai aur milti rahe gi jab tak log is raaste ko chhoren ge nahin aur us raaste ko apnaayen ge nahin jo khushgawaar, baa izzat aur pur aman zindagi ki taraf le kar jaata hai insaaniyat ko.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
azeezam kakaballi sb, aap ham ko deene islam ki apni explanation ka link de den jahan pe aap ne ham se behtar is ko explain kiya hai taa keh ham aap ke ilm se faaida uthaa saken ain nawaazish ho gi aap ki.
regards and all the best.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Peace Mughal1
You wrote this:
“t*he concept of predestination was instilled in minds of masses by mullahs as a dogma ***so that people instead of blaming rulers, money lenders and mullahs for fractures in human community could blame God for all their ills. Even highly educated muslims became victims of this nonsense due to lack of thinking because had they adopted logic and consistency they will have rejected this nonsense but instead they promoted it, why?”
**If you cannot specifically show where and who are blaming God then you are lying it is simple … It is categorical in Islam that although Muslims believe in Qadr we NEVER have the audacity to blame God for evil … You are saying this is the case now the onus is on you and your “years of research” to prove that … I can show you many many many places citing the opposite - every group Wahabis, Sunnis, Shi’a … none say what you are claiming …
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Dear psyah, please explain what do you mean by qadr and you will find your answers in there even today. It is you who believes Allah knows already what anyone is going to do so let us see what you mean by it. If any of your mullahs have explained it already please let us have it. It is your aqeedah that all good and evil comes from God. All I want to know is how do you explain all this or for that matter any of your mullahs. I have explained this in a very different way in the links I provided above.
Your aqeedah includes other make beliefs as well not just qadr. Once you explain qadr I will bring other things to your attention as well should you like me to do that. Why mullahs thought it necessary to include qadr in aqeedah if it was as simple a thing as you think? So I will start with your good self if you do not mind. Who taught you your aqeedah? IMAAN MUJMAL and IMAAN MUFASSAL are creedal declarations, can you tell me their origin and the reason for that? Many quranic terms have been twisted by mullahs not just word qadr but it is a good start to begin with. If you or for that matter your mullahs fail to explain qadr then I have nothing to say because truth will speak for itself. By the way this is not just your creed but creed of all those who claim to be bound by this creed including mullahs who invented it and promoted it.
Do you remember your discussion with me about miracles? The concept of miracles was also invention by mullahs and it was promoted by them. So it will be a good idea for you to study what I explained because that will strengthen your position in answering my questions one way or the other. If you learned something from my explanations it will prove good for you and if you thereby helped me discover something new that too will benefit both of us. Discussions never hurt if they are carried out in good spirit of learning. You simply attacked me because I put up point of view of ghulam ahmed parwez but I do put up opinions of various people of various sects to emphasise certain points. When I talk about sir syed for example, I do not mean whatever he said about anything at all he is right about all of it. He was a human being and was born ignorant just like all of us. He learned somethings better than the rest of us and for that he should be appreciated not condemned. His contribution to this ummah was, interpret the text of the quran in light of real world realities. Mullahs called him naitury=naturalist. Tell me was he right or are your mullahs right? From his point of view we should study the real world realities and then interpret the quran in that light. From your mullahs’ point of view, we should study the quran and then interpret the universe in that light. Which position is more logical and consistent in your view and why? I hold sir syed’s point of view right and mullahs point of view wrong for reasons explained in my study of the quran. Of course anyone is welcome to prove my point of view wrong including yourself but none has been able to do so and I do not think anyone can because if anyone could they will have done it by now many times over.
Hameedduddeen farahi another schoar of the quran in time of sir syed, came up with idea of context of the quranic text. He emphasised to ummah that people should try their best to make sense of the quranic text in its own context. Before him mullahs used to think the quran is just a collection of verses which have no connection to each other whatsoever. This was due to concept of shaane nazool the way it was invented and promoted by mullahs. Was he right or wrong in your opinion? In my view he was right and mullahs were wrong.
Soon after them iqbal came on stage who told ummah islam was a deen not a mazhab. Not only that he also dismissed mullahs’ concept of shariah clarifying how shariah is supposed to be derived from the quran in light of real world realities that face the generations of the ummah in their own times. Was he right or wrong? In my view he was right and mullahs were wrong and I have reasons to say this which are explaied in detail in my work on the quran.
To understand what my view of deen of islam is, one has to read through by work, it is mainly based on points emphasised by people like sir syed, farahi, iqbal and parwez etc.
regards and all the best.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Which one is post 32? And I’ve read your posts. They are too long. Don’t have a point. What’s your point? And I gave you actual Qur’anic verses yet you have not replied to it? Of course how do you reply to Allah? You can’t that’s how. Also destiny is true. Allah knew about Iblis. He created Adam AS for earth. He is ALL KNOWING. That’s one of His names. I’m sorry but I think you’re confused. You say you’ve studied for decades, under which teacher? Which scholar? What subject did youh study? Islamic fiqh? Sharia? Arabic? What? Where did you go? University of Medina? Makkah? Which country? Where are your qualifications that allow you to say what you say? Are you a mu’hadith? An alim? A sheikh?
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
You can’t understand Qur’an using your own context! That’s the ridiculous kind of idea that leads to the stupid alQaeda mentality! They took Qur’anic verses to justify killing! Are you sane? How can you make such random statements?! Quran needs to be read understanding when the verses were revealed, to who and why and what the situation was! That’s why we have scholars! We are not all blessed to be able to study Qur’an as our life mission! Be careful what you say! Any wrong statement about Allah’s words will be heavy on your scales on a Day when there will be no room for remorse or regret. And if you misguide anyone that too will be held against you. And finally the Qur’an IS a miracle. It was the best if miracles given to the best of His prophets.
Re: Why make Dua when everything is pre written??
Ebadat kay liye kiya farishty kam par gaye thay jo Khuda na insaan ko zameen par bhej diya…
:cobra: