Why Jesus Really Came To The Earth

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Why Jesus Really Came To The Earth

Useless thread in my humble honest opinion.

I think the religious forum should not be for 'preaching'.

It should be for learning, educating, clarifying the issues only for those who have same/similar beliefs.

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Peace xfrodobagginsx

There were lots of gospels that have been removed from the official Bible that denied the crucifixion and/or that Jesus (AS) died at all. There must be a reason why the versions that were compatible with the Mithras faith were the ones that survived.

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psyah, except for Mary being a virgin when giving birth to Jesus, can you list some more agreements?

There were none such gospels.

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That video above tells you why they were not included. First of all, they were NOT written by the eyewitnesses, just as the koran wasn't. They all contradict the accounts written by the eyewitnesses just as the koran does. If I were to come along 200 or more years after George Washington and tell you that the eyewitnesses of his day were wrong and that he was NOT the first president of the United States of Amercia would you believe me? What basis would you have to believe me over the eyewitnesses? Think about it. I wasn't there, the eyewitnesses WERE there. The person denying his presidency is clearly wrong by all logic. It's the same thing as with the bible. The eyewitnesses are the reliable sources. That's who wrote the bible and whose books were included in the canon and that's who I believe. They all agree that Christ DID die on the cross and rise from the dead for our sins. These are people who actually WALKED with Jesus and traveled with Him. These are people who SAW Him after He rose from the dead. They saw His miracles. They WORSHIPPED Him and He NEVER told them not to. He claimed to be God in the flesh and they believed Him because of the miracles that they saw Him perform with their own eyes.

WATCH THE VIDEO I POSTED ABOVE ABOUT THE BIBLICAL CANNON AND HOW IT CAME TO BE.

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Re: Why Jesus Really Came To The Earth

All of you guys need to read the book Blind Watchmaker and Selfish gene.

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Re: Why Jesus Really Came To The Earth

My dear friends and brothers Old Man and frodobaggin,

I do admire your sincere efforts and those who are keeping this conversation going despite we know there will never be a point where this internet 'manaazra' will make one or other person convinced or converted. It just does not happen.......OK.......one can still believe in 'miracle'.

Different religions teach different ideas.

You may say you are one hundred percent sure of what you read and were taught all through your lives but someone from Islamic background might have been taught something else............

For centuries these three religions including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have been on collision path and none of us have ever really thought of, confronted and conflicted the idea of polytheism or atheism.

Polytheism (or atheism in the disguise of 'secularism') have been enjoying this collision, giggling **and dancing **along the way and have been completely **ignored **by us.

We the Jews, Christians and Muslims have been defeated or are being defeated by these ideas and have been oblivious of their absolute freedom for a long time.

It's like we are the fighters in the ring and audience are atheists and polytheists enjoying the show every night................Why???

Do you think politics of the world should be more powerful than religious ideas?

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Peace xfrodobagginsx

The Qur'an was revealed by God ... It is the Word of God ... Bible is the word of the so called eyewitness who may at times have quoted God, or quoted people who quoted God nothing more.

I'll watch the video if you like

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Peace The Old Man

We believe that Jesus (AS) was the Messiah
We believe that Jesus (AS) walked on water, healed the sick, fed many people, rose the dead, exorcised people and
We believe he prayed to God just like you do
We believe that he was sent by God as a true prophet
We agree with his parables and our prayer is comparable to the Lord's Prayer

Oh ... by the way we believe he was very fair in skin colour which is interesting seeing that the Romans depicted him as a white person unwittingly.

As for the gospels ... you need to see that video as well may be ... I can name one gospel already ...

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The Bible AND the koran CANNOT both be the word of God because they directly contradict each other. God cannot lie or else He isn't God.

Ro 3:4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged."

The Bible is the word of God:

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The koran was given to mohummud by whom he percieved to be an angel. One bibical test is if it contradicts the gospel in the bible. The gospel is the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. To deny this is to preach "another gospel"

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The bible was written by God (The Holy Spirit) through men:

2Pe 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, please watch the video.

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But the bible states that you MUST believe that He is who He says He is. He is God in the flesh (Jesus is the "word" of God)

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God......Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

You need to confess Him as your Lord and Savior with your mouth:

Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus....

You MUST believe that He died on the cross and rose from the dead in order to be saved:

....and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

God looks on the HEART of man.

.....For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So it's GREAT that you respect Jesus, but YOU must admit who He is in order to be saved. Otherwise, you are preaching "another Gospel" and will be accursed:

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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Peace xfrodobagginsx

It is true that Bible is not the Word of God. The Bible never claims to be so. It only claims to be inspiration by God. The Qur'an on the other hand is the uncreated Word of God revealed.

And yes you should take heed of your own Bible. The letters of Paul are such a gospel that is preached other than what Jesus (AS) preached. That his words contradicted the teachings of Jesus (AS). Jesus (AS) taught the law Paul taught that the law was a curse. They cannot both be true. Muhammad (SAW) on the other hand came to right the wrongs of those who took the message of Jesus (AS) astray and called all to come back to the covenant that was never meant to be broken.

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Peace xfrodobagginsx

You are preaching to me an English gospel which is far removed from the original word of the Bible. At no instance is there a direct statement saying that Jesus (AS) is God. In the Qur'an which is the Word of God it says that Jesus (AS) will testify against ever saying that he should be worshipped. And look in your own texts he will say worship the Father only.

It is you who are preaching another gospel not I ...

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*It's very easy to prove that Jesus Christ is God through the bible. There are DIRECT statements in the bible affiming that Jesus Christ is God. Of course the koran says that Jesus doesn't want to be worshipped, it directly contradicts the word of God (the Bible) written by the eyewitnesses on every important area. Jesus IS worshipped by His followers throughout the bible, He claims to be God in the flesh and He NEVER tells them not to worship Him...NEVER...NOT ONCE. This is very important. We MUST admit that Jesus is LORD in order to be saved. The bible calls Him The LORD indicating His divinity. *

Look at the verses below and tell me who is preaching the false gospel:

Jesus Christ IS God

*There are some religions out there that believe and teach that Jesus Christ is not God. Some teach that He is a god, but not thee God. I am going to demonstrate through the word of God that He is God and created all things. He always was. *

Mic 5:2 (NKJV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting."

This prophecy is of Christ's first comming. His Goings forth have been from everlasting because Christ Jesus is God.
*Jesus Christ is one with the Father. He is God. *

Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
(Take an egg and break it in a bowl. How many parts are here? How many eggs are here? 1) That’s how it is with God.

*Jesus declares Himself to be the great I AM of the Old Testiment. I AM is God's Name *

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

I am is God. There is only one God. That God has three parts.

Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

His Disciple/Apostle Peter Admits that Jesus knows “All things” (Only God knows all things)

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.

God's plurality is found in Genesis

Ge 1:26 ¶ Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

His Disciple/Apostle Thomas Confessed Him to be God and Jesus did NOT rebuke Him for it:

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

This verse demonstrates how God has multiple aspects. He said Let “US” make man in “OUR” image. He didn’t say, let me make man in My image, He said let US make man is OUR image.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares Christ Jesus to be God:

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares that the world was made by Him (Jesus Christ)

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

All things were made by Him and He was in the beginning with God (Father)

Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

There are MANY places where He is worshipped and Jesus NEVER tells them not to worship Him, NOT once. Only God is to be worshipped, because Jesus IS God, Jesus IS worshipped:

Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}
Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mt 9:18 ¶ While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. {worshipped him: or, besought him}
Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mr 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mr 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
Lu 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Re 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

*Conclusion: Jesus Christ is God. Not a God but the God of the bible. God has three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are equal, yet the Son is submissive to the Father and the Holy Spirit is submissive to the Son. Jesus Christ was an EXAMPLE for us. He died on the cross for our sins so that we could go to heaven and be forgiven of our sins. He shed His blood for us. *

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My response is in bold above.

Hun Allah-hu Be-kaar
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Thank you for this respectful discussion.

hAmEIshA yAAd rAkhOOn gA
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My response is in bold above.

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*Wrong. The Bible DOES claim to be the word of God. It says that the men were moved by the Holy Ghost. *

The Old Testament says much of the prophets revealing God’s will and purpose and how their words were from God himself(Ex 5:1-3). It was also recorded how God had fulfilled and confirmed many promises spoke by the prophets (Josh 21:43-45). These prophets expected the Word of God to be in written formed (Deut 31:9-13; Jer 36:1-8).

Jesus and the apostles believed that the Old Testament was inspired by God (Matt 22:43-44, 2 Tim 3:16-17). They believe that the prophets were carried along by the Holy Spirit as they wrote His word. Jesus used the Old Testament to debate with his opponents and to teach the disciples about himself. All the apostolic writings followed Jesus example and recognized the divine inspiration and authority of the Old Testament.

Christians recognized the same authority in the New Testament (2 Pet 3:15-16). The apostles were promised the Holy Spirit who would teach them more things. Hence the writing of the New Testament must be inspired by the Holy Spirit as well.

Despite the great diversity, the books in the Holy Bible obtain an amazing unity in its revelation of the character and will of God from the fact that they were inspired by God. The bible hence claims that it is the living and active word of God (Heb 4:12), God's chosen means to reveal his character and will to all and it must stand supreme in authority for instructions (2 Tim 16-17).

“You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3: 14-17).

When Christians say that the Bible is God’s Word; we are referring to the fact that all scripture is divinely inspired by God. When the Bible is read as on book in its entirety, we see the inerrancy of scripture. God created us all differently and he allowed the perspective of his chosen writers and scribes to come through. There are many different passages in the Bible that explain the same event in different ways; however, the main message behind the story remains unchanged.

Finally, trust in the sovereignty of God who inspired the scriptures to preserve its accuracy and truth.

Remember,
“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:20-21).

*Paul was Called by Jesus Christ personally to preach the gospel. He taught side by side with the disciples of Jesus Christ who approved of everything that Paul taught. His writings do NOT contradict what Jesus Preached. If you read paul's writings and compare it to the rest of the bible, they are perfectly compatible and preach the same gospel. *

Simply not true.

Jesus came to fulfil the law. Since Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and could not sin, He fulfilled the law, because of this and His resurrection, we are no longer under the law, but under God's grace. The law was written to show man that we ARE indeed sinners and cannot keep God's laws perfectly. The fulfillment of the law proves Christ's divinity. What Paul taught was that if you seek to be justified by the law(good works) and NOT the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, you won't be able to because you are a sinner. This is in line with what Jesus said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved"

The Jews were under the law until Christ came and fulfilled it, so your right we are no longer under the law, but under God's grace (unearned favour)

*So those who walked directly with Jesus Christ, were taught directly by Him and were eyewitnesses didn't know what Jesus meant, but mohommad who came around hundreds of years later and was not an eyewitness somehow knew more than they did and what Jesus Himself taught them? I think not. *

[/quote]

Peace xfrodobagginsx

What you state confirms that the Bible is not the Word of God it never claims to be the Word of God. It contains the narrative of people who quote the Word of God but it is not in itself the Word of God. The Qur'an on the other hand is the Word of God. So far you have shown nothing that shows that I am wrong.

Paul was not called by anyone to preach the gospel, he changed the teachings of Jesus (AS) and companions of Jesus (AS) fled from him and some even argued with him. Some Christians and Jews who converted to Islam during the time of Muhammad (SAW) were the very people who flew the flags of the legacy of the true Messianic teachings. They were the inheritors of the true companions of Jesus (AS) the very ones who fled from Paul.

The true leader of the companions of Jesus (AS) was Cephas (Peter)

If you study Islam with an open heart and mind you will see how it supports the previous scriptures but at the same time contextualises it and helps you root out where people have been mistaken. The conclusions from the Council of Nicea for example is included in those mistakes.

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Peace to you also, psyah

Some questions w.r.t. above:

  1. If you agree with Jesus' parables, how does Islam teach Jesus' parables and where do they get the parables from? Are there any of the parables that Islam do not agree with?
  2. Is it possible to quote me the prayer that you do that is comparable to the Lors'd Prayer? I am really interested in this.
  3. Jesus is basically accepted now by many Biblical scolars to rather have been sligtly more darker
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Good day diwana

You are so right. The only way is for the 3 different religions to be able to converse and debate the differences between them in a friendly and constructive way without being degrading or belitteling of the other religions. In a way discussions such as this thread, if it remains proper and civilized, is good.

On the other hand, two of the religions have a mandate to expand their religions by trying to convert everyone else to their religion. Judaism is standing on the sideline, very aloof.

Politics should never be more powerful than religion. The morals of society are being driven by religion and not politics, which is dirty and self centered.

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  • True

  • Wrong. Paul taught exactly what Jesus AND other Apostles (including Peter called Cephas) preached and was not once reprimanded as to his teaching. In the first synod where ALL Apostles were in Acts 15 the Law was shown NOT to be for the gentiles - by Apostles. They laid down what Paul later taught to the gentiles. In fact the Apostles send Paul out to teach just what he did.