I am also a good guy, today I saw a beutiful lady and did not do any Cher Char.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Confusedominator: *
ALI SINA is a popular convert. He has his own website. He makes money off us when we visit his website.
[/QUOTE]
Well said.
What I have written about Hazrat umar and hazrat abu Bakar was before they had accepted Islam. NOTE: BEFORE THEY ACCEPTED ISLAM.
IT is nothing, infront of what they used to do before they accepted islam, much more than this waqeya of not having believe that Mohammed may be truely so shareif inssan; would you deny? I do not want to write you all know. Quran also proves it, that what they were before islam, they had accepted.
Waqeya of accepting islam by hazrat umar also show how much he used to not believe in prophet mohammed.
hazrat umar bet her sister on reading Quran, if you have forgotten, let me remind you. but this was also before he accepted islam.
YES true, who denies it? Did I? or your preconceive conception about khulafas, that I may not! Regarding
they were the one who accepted islam in early days, does not mean they accepted islam the second day when prophet declared him being prophet. in the beginning they were reluctant, to accept islam as they were lacking believe in him.
Later they accepted islam, as written in Sorah Al RAAAD. The last aayat.
Dear Minerva,
You wanted to remove my post? why? is it not discussion forum. If you would not know others point of view, your whole study would focus on one sect of thought. There should be comparative study. That gives signs, thoughts to assess and find the correct or better among the goods or even better among the worst.
Not knowing others opinion is not good too. It is succidal itself, regarding ones approach towards religion. BUND DEMAQ HOU JATA HAY. KOUCH SOUCNA NAHEI, KOUCH JANA NAHE, TOU PHER KEOUN YE SUB FORUM BAZI, ISS KA FAIEDA? I think my parents way of believing every thing regarding religion was wrong, so i study comparative and tell others also, others point of view.What is bad or wrong in doing that.?
GADAHYA KA MEDUKH TOU BUS WAHEI JANTA HEI JOU DEKHTA HEI. DOUSRI DOUNYA BHEI TOU DEKHNA CHAHYE.
What QEISSA I HAVE WRITTEN is in all books of EMAMIES, all their firqas. If some one is interested can contact any sheik, i have just informed samael. If he is interested to find about the truth about what I have written he would do comparative study. He would not chanalize his religious studies.
Ok Sokoon, lets see:
570 - Prophet :saw: was born.
610 - Prophets mission started
622 - Hijrah to Madina
632 - Prophet :saw: passes away.
In your fantasy made-up story could you please tell us.
[list=1][li]In which year did Abu Bakr (RA) accept islam?
[/li][li]In which year did Umar (RA) accept islam?
[/li][li]In which year did Aisha (RA) marriage take place?
[/li][li]In which year did Hafsa (RA) marriage take place?
[/li][/list=1]
Anyway Minerva has given you an opportunity to provide (any) references, lets see if you can come up with something.
Are you talking about precise dates.
There is difference between Emamies and sunis on the date of birth of Prophet mohammed (pbuh) and his date of death.
Shia say his date of birth obtained from his family is 17th of rabul awal
and sunni say the date of birth of prophet mohammed as they have obtained from khulafas is 12th of rabul awal
Date of death of prophet mohammed (pbuh); shia say they have obtained from his family members as 28th rajab ul mujarab
Sunni say ** they have obtained his *date of death from * .khulafas is 12th rabul awal** Same day he was dead and same day he was born.
*Do you still think there can be any similarites in the dates you are asking me to quote??? forget it. *
No one wants all to become shias or all to become sunnis, but one should know why are they went apart and called as shias and sunnis. How do they differ in their believe. So that hatred should stop.
Now see how **** are all those who can not bear my point of view and want to remove my thread. Did you write every thing in favour of shias? did not you write every thing against their believe.
This accounts to the same as people are killing them for more than 1400years due to their own wrong convictions that what they have received from some, can not be wrong as compared to prophets daughter--to whom he 100% had trained to speak the truth at least.
And this favouring her against umar is from the first day of her death. It is not due to any new hadeez. The shiasm started on the same waqeya of her murder. And till date shias are there.
Now you ban a thread or me. It is your attitude. As you people have never ever tried to find the reason. EK HE KHAT KOU PEAT TEY RAHEY, AND RAHOU KEYA FARAQ PERTA HAY.
or marou shias kou jannat mein jaou. Youm e Hashar mein melein ga. WAHAN HAL AHWAL POUNCHEIN GA. WASSALAM
P.S:
Do you think this declaration that he(prophet mohammed) adored her when he was 53 and ayesha was just 9. And then he went to Abu Bakar to marry her cutest daughter.
And later he went to hunt for another beauty and found hafza and gone mad on her beauty so went to umar please please marry me with her.
what immpression you want to give of prophet mohammed????
Do not say these marriages were to spread islam only.
Why did not he think of spreading islam by marrying small kids until the age of 53. It was allowed
Is not this argument of yours getting mad on shias to narrate this marriage waqeya, reflects that you want to say that he was same natured person like a typical****who marry a 12 years girl when they are themselves not less than 60 years.
Are you trying to approve what prophet mohammed's enemies say to him as ragella rasoul, is it ok for him ; he was like this;Just in a mere attempt to prove something in favour of his companions.
I do not know what is in your mind to prove, while you do not care about prophet's respect.
Re: Why I Left Islam …
well the thing is that this guy repeats and repeats his story all over again
there is no use of discusion with him on his site he can just delete hat ever he wnats and keep what he wants so dont care about him
he was a jew never a muslim and he fakes it all to make young muslims confused
Sokoon I have no idea what you wrote in your last reply, or what point you were trying to make. Did I even ask about the Prophet :saw: ?
You still havent answered these questions, which would explain to us the stupidity of your story.
Unless you provide any supporting evidence, your either very ignorant or clearly telling lies.
I have written a totally correct answer, you want me to say, that after they accepted islam then also they had problem with prophet; i do not know about it, so I did not answer the way you were trying to receive reply from me.
What I know; when the basis of being muslims, regarding dates of birth and dates of death of prophets are taken from two different sources, are not the same; and no one from sunnis believes that khulafas did not know right dates; although every one knows family of prophet had burried him , not the khulafas; then how come you would agree with the other dates.
so I knowingly do not want to enter in dates BAZI and copy paste business, you would copy and paste what sunnis have written according to their conviction of believing only khulafas not Fatima or ali. Same would be the reflection in this regard too,
sorry I leave it to GOD. Meet you on the day of judgement and would see the decision of GOD between khulafas services for muslims and prophet's and his family's service, in the eyes of GOD. Fe AMAM ULLA chaoo
Please do not be adamant to reply me in weird fashion as if you have stop following my reply altogether. Let the atmosphere as it should be on forums.
Re: Re: Why I Left Islam …
Dear delight,
what is your point? Are you trying to say that no muslim becomes apostate? How about Adam and Eve’s children, Noah’s son, children of Israel etc? And how about the hadith reports that tell about killings of apostates and the existence of hyporites etc?
Islam is not something that you are necessarily born in nor something that once you are born in you cannot come out of it. Ali Sina likewise is an Iranian ex-muslim just as I am a Pakistani ex-muslim. People have been changing their religious beliefs always. The scriptures themselves tell us that. Read hindu scriptures, parsi scriptures, jewish scriptures, christian scriptures and even islamic scriptures.
If people do not convert from one religion to another, how would you explain nonmuslims becoming muslims and likewise many muslims turning christians etc and so on and so forth?
Each of us have our own reasons to change our minds. All we can argue about is whether the reason a person has is valid or invalid but it is valid for the person who acts on it regardless what others think. We all move away from whatever we perceive troubles us.
As for your accusation that this guy deletes posts, that is not true. That is the only forum where anyone is welcome to express one’s views freely particularly opposing views. I am a registered member at that forum for a few years now and no post has been deleted just for expressing opposing views. People there welcome all. The only rule on that forum is that you are not allowed to through abuse at the opponent. You are free to take apart any belief system or ideology for analysis or examination.
I personally interact on various forums, some are more accommodating than others. I am participating here on this forum as well though policy here is to prevent serious critical examination of religion that is dominant in our country. The reason is not the forum but some members, which is usual in all our media that is why there is little progess in our society. Nobody writes, prints or publishes in any shape or form anything that shows conclusion of any real critical examination of our dominant belief system ie islam. The reason is threat of violence, book banning or burning and even death threats for persons thought responsible for such a task. Islam should be defended by reason and pen if it is worth the paper it is written on and one should have no problem doing so.
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/posts/index.htm
It was this attitude of muslims which has now landed them into confrontation in the west. No article was published critical of islam that complains and campaign started against it and apologies were forced out of people. It is the same west which has now woken up and the very same muslims are now looking for cover. There are now thousands of websites and printed articles against islam and there is nothing much muslims can do. Had they been sensible such an explosion could have been avoided by following reactions of other religious people eg christians etc in the west and hindus in india or jews in israel. Parsis and sikh have no state of their own.
If muslim know how to fight back when oppressed and suppressed, so do nonmuslims. If muslims know how to die for their cause, so do nonmuslims. Muslim are hell bent on dying for death and destruction but nonmuslims want to die so that others can live in peace.
Is it not a sad situation that religious people themselves think that without religion life has no purpose for anyone so why should anyone bother living on? So if we the nonrelgious people have no reason to live then we are willing to die as far as relgious people are concerned. Now if we are going to die anyway because we see no purpose in living then why not take the death loving muslims with us? Think about it!
Aside that I personally think, it is cowardice to die for nothing because dying is easy but to live and make something out of life is courageous because it is hard work to survive. It takes real guts. Having a life worth living and willing to die for others so that they could live in peace is what really counts and having nothing and making excuses for dying for lost causes is absolutely nothing. Just as such peoples’ life was worthless so is their death come to think of it. Many people in the world commit suicide because they cannot face hardships of life, which shows running to death is way of losers not winners.
It is for this reason that sensorship must be curtailed in pakistan in all its media so that such a sudden explosion does not take place that the country ends up divided and thereby in civil strife. It is very fragile country that will do better if people understood each other better and realised why their cooperation is absolutly vital for their own survival. Breaking pakistan into parts for any reason is not going to work in anyone’s favour at all but to keep everyone together situation demands equal rights and responsibities or privileges for all citizens of pakistan ie balochis or punjabies or pathaans, hindus, muslims or sikhs etc etc etc. It is not mullahs who need their freedom to be curtailed but that the rest eg their opponents or rivals etc also need to be given the very same level of freedom ensuring safety and security of all citizens of pakistan equally. When people start talking, they will end up realising that the compromise from all sides is the only viable position. All secular democratic states and people are backing this idea in opposition to any idea of dominance by any religion, sect or ideology that is auhtoritarian or dictatorship.
If pakistanis or muslims are not willing to compromise and join the free world, so be it but they will never be allowed to dominate the world instead they will be kept well in their place where they belong. There are millions of pakistanis living in free states and they have come to realise the advantages of democracy, so it is inevitable that pakistan will have to move with time or there will be a civil war, sooner rather than later. Power struggle is a very dirty game. So long as people were living in pakistan, masses were under the thumb of feudals, tribal chiefs and mullahs and have had no chance of education to realise they have been exploited by the three main groups. Now that they have raised their children in the free world they will return to return the favour to the parties unless the parties repent and reform before they get their hands on them.
regards and all the best.
Re: Re: Re: Why I Left Islam …
im not trying to say any of what it sounded like or what u think i was saying
i know ppl who convert back and forth
and believe me i have in my own family ppl who converted for the reasons so stupid u would laugh it
it was like they didnt wanna read namaz behind a moulaana so they converted
anyhow
im just saying i have been to his site and forums and i did try to have debates with him
and i know someone else who did too but the out come was ali sinas same story from the start again
so thats all what im saying
and i think converting from one religion to another is nothing but the media
if u have the media nad u can reach ppl will listen to u and go along with u
since muslims are so busy in killing and shia sunni thing they have no time for puting the real islam out and thats y ppl convert
the other thing is if it was for muslims and the attitudes of muslims i would have also converted
but the thing is im not a muslim bc of muslims i am muslim for the message of islam and what islam teaches
todays muslims dont deserve to be called muslims but anyhow
its up to u to choose your path in life and no one can stop u…but first u have to look at everthing …understand islam then think of leaving dont leave just bc of someguys alluring influence…