One would have that that the current crisis in Pakistan, would have led people to come out on the streets and demonstrate against Musharaf’s rule.
Apart from the judges, why has this not happened? Is it because the people are much better off under Musharaf than previous leaders?
Or, is it that people know if they come out against Musharaf, they will only let in lootmaars and bhagoras?
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
so tell me, why haven't the people come out in favour of Musharraf? the silence of his own ministers is even more deafening. The reality is, in particular in Punjab the people have not mobilised in any sense against a dictator (civil or militay) in 30 years..so whats happened is quite unprecedented. The difficulty in opposing a military dictator who is willing to use violence against his own people is considerble, people usually need a ZAB or a Jinnah to inspire them
However it says a lot that in the end the only distinction between BB/NS and Mushy is it's harder to remove Mushy.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
how many times have people come out in support of anything in past unless they were being paid to do so and loaded into buses by their pay masters,
chalo chalo nishtar park chalo, and all that. or how Jamaat e islaami gets its members and supporting madrissa folks to go for a picnic day.
so there is no real precedence for people coming out en masse in support of the top dawg, but opposed, yeah, but even in that case it has mostly been paid ppl and political party workers, avg joe citizen usually does not do anything.
But as big as bhagoray larry moe and curly want to make it, it simply is not. I have spoken to my pals in Pakistan, my parents and relatives, and no one really is too bothered about it, except one rabid MMA family and some PPP jiyalas.
PS: one more distnction b/w NS. BB and Musharraf, NS and BB very dignificantly more corrupt, per Pakistanis living in Pakistan.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
well, people have come out in the past without getting any reward or money too because they had hopes. now they kinda have lost their trust.
besides, they're fedup with the systm - with all the problems.
they not only have to think about earning enough money for food & stuff but also utilities, children education, day to day errands (its not that easy to run different errands in PK) etc.
Once only once, I went to pay the electricity bill - all i can say now, "tauba tauba". am never gonna do that again.
so they don't have any energy left.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
Yup, they are too busy surviving, only those affected directly protest
Re: Why haven’t people come out on the streets?
They didnt take to streets when half the country was amputated.
Never took to streets when several heads of state were killed in various ways.
They did take to streets when apparently prices for sugar were raised slightly.
What an emotional nation we are…we just stand up for right (non-issues) and know how to fight!
We’re a destructively emotional nation.
[quote="“Aalsi, post:4, topic:158308"”]
Apart from the judges, why has this not happened? Is it because the people are much better off under Musharaf than previous leaders?
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote="“Aalsi, post:4, topic:158308"”]
Or, is it that people know if they come out against Musharaf, they will only let in lootmaars and bhagoras?
[/quote]
Yes.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
... people usually need a ZAB or a Jinnah to inspire them
Putting zab and Jinnah in the same sentence is an insult to Jinnah's memory.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
well, people have come out in the past without getting any reward or money too because they had hopes. now they kinda have lost their trust. besides, they're fedup with the systm - with all the problems. they not only have to think about earning enough money for food & stuff but also utilities, children education, day to day errands (its not that easy to run different errands in PK) etc. Once only once, I went to pay the electricity bill - all i can say now, "tauba tauba". am never gonna do that again.
so they don't have any energy left.
coolie, teh whole deal with difficulties runnign errands is not new, so if we use factors that have existed pretty much for decades as reasons why people wont come out in the streets NOW then that is a little baseless.
Unlike yourself, I stood in lines to pay all kinds of bills for a couple of years, so I know the hassle, and I do believe that people make a little bit more of it than it is. so you go and stand an hour in the line..although usually it took me 30 mins to pay.
as far as issue with food and stuff..and expenses etc etc, its not that all of a sudden things are so bad that everyone cant come out on the streets. Even if we take your word and ignore numerical data..it would mean a reduction in number of people who have the ability to protest.
so in the end we rae left with the leap of faith of people being so fed up that they dont want to do anything, a counter assumption is that no matter how much yip yap people do, deep doen inside they know that while this set up in not perfect, they would not be better off under bhagorays like larry moe and curly and thus have nto come out in the streets.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
Putting zab and Jinnah in the same sentence is an insult to Jinnah's memory.
agree 100%.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
People are not coming out on roads! But majority of them are now against President Musharraf! He should set an example to leave voluntarily! No one is indispensible! Its time he should leave!
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
coolie, teh whole deal with difficulties runnign errands is not new, so if we use factors that have existed pretty much for decades as reasons why people wont come out in the streets NOW then that is a little baseless.
Unlike yourself, I stood in lines to pay all kinds of bills for a couple of years, so I know the hassle, and I do believe that people make a little bit more of it than it is. so you go and stand an hour in the line..although usually it took me 30 mins to pay.
as far as issue with food and stuff..and expenses etc etc, its not that all of a sudden things are so bad that everyone cant come out on the streets. Even if we take your word and ignore numerical data..it would mean a reduction in number of people who have the ability to protest.
so in the end we rae left with the leap of faith of people being so fed up that they dont want to do anything, a counter assumption is that no matter how much yip yap people do, deep doen inside they know that while this set up in not perfect, they would not be better off under bhagorays like larry moe and curly and thus have nto come out in the streets.
I agree with you.
I understand that things haven't been working for the past 50+ years. They have protested several times in the past (in all era) but of no use so why bother now.
Besides I have noticed that people are just becoming mean & selfish too. They only care for themselves. I may be wrong here but thats what i think.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
To summarise the pro government arguments, the government is right because:
1) if they vote against the government, it's because they are tricked by chaudhrys, waderos and corrupt politicians
2) If they protest: they are doing so because of Nawaz Sharif & BB, corrupt lawyers, corrupt journalists or it's an american conspiracy.
2) If they don't protest it means they agree with everything the government does.
3) If they take up arms they are traitors and deserve death
Considering the above is the attitude of the educated lot, is it any surprise people are disgusted?
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
To summarise the pro government arguments, the government is right because:
1) if they vote against the government, it's because they are tricked by chaudhrys, waderos and corrupt politicians
Very well said!
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
Why have I not come out on the street? for what? To bring back budnazar, 10 percent, ganja and ababji marhoom!! LOL.... yeah right.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
People are not coming out on roads! But majority of them are now against President Musharraf! He should set an example to leave voluntarily! No one is indispensible! Its time he should leave!
he is not indispensible by any means, no one is.
I am not convinced it is the time she should leave. I would say probably another couple of years, after the eelctions are held this year and the assemblies are working fine and there is that stability. the judiciary situation is resolved etc.
While I am not giddy about the status quo, I really do not want to see Lary, More and Curly back in power, that would just be horrible for the country.
Third time is a chram simply does not ring true for benazir or nawaz.
I am disappointed to see that their political parties can not chart their own destinies and work towards their mission and vision, while being unable to get beyond these individuals.
Why is it that benazir and Nawaz are not indispensible to their parties? it is time that in the nation's interest they step down, and retire from politics and use their following to do something else, I mean look at what Al Gore or Bill Clinton have been doing.
we need term limits on PM role as well as MNA/MPA/Senator role. we are not going to go anywhere if the same old ppl keep coming back.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
he is not indispensible by any means, no one is.
Why is it that benazir and Nawaz are not indispensible to their parties? it is time that in the nation's interest they step down, and retire from politics and use their following to do something else, I mean look at what Al Gore or Bill Clinton have been doing.
We can only dream of it!
I always wish that some "moosa" be born in these families of "firoons". May be bilawal has different ideas and really feels for his people! Or some sons of the "sharif" family thinks otherwise than their fathers!
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
May be bilawal has different ideas and really feels for his people! Or some sons of the "sharif" family thinks otherwise than their fathers!
Ah, the dynasty continues :)
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
Ah, the dynasty continues :)
Yes! Among so many Ummayads rulers, only Umer Bin Aziz felt for his people!
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
We can only dream of it!
I always wish that some "moosa" be born in these families of "firoons". May be bilawal has different ideas and really feels for his people! Or some sons of the "sharif" family thinks otherwise than their fathers!
why do we even need them? I dont see ronald reagen's son leading GOP. I dont see the grandsone of Ford being
the Bush thing is a whole different thing, and this, just like Kirk and michael douglas or martins heen and emilio estevez, or ZAB and BB have shown that talent is not always genetic.
these family bases, personality based politics need to end. I recall a statement getting a lot of attention about 160 million people not being idiots etc etc, fine. true, but just like Musharraf is not indispensible surely these professional politicians with a family legacy of politics are dispnsible also.
Re: Why haven't people come out on the streets?
Yes! Among so many Ummayads rulers, only Umer Bin Aziz felt for his people!
yup so maybe the dynasty should not continue then.