Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
If those said gots are so bad then why are you living in france. Why do you earn your living in a evil govt which banned burqa.
I will take athiests over munafiqs anyday.
lol.. Because the secular democracy of France hasnt resolved Pakistans problem with poverty and hunger, he is forced to settle in France and take advantage of secular democracy directly.
Oh wait, he is in Sheikh town now, Dubai! I wonder why he doesnt raise the question of why the Arabs with all their petro dollars haven't resolved the problem of Poverty and Hunger in Pakistan or other Muslim countries?!?
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Let me repeat. Here is your answer...
The reason SECULAR democracy hasnt solved global Hunger:
Secularism never claimed to be a solution to GLOBAL hunger. Secularism and democracy only create a stable environment that can further facilitate economic and social growth.
The govts that are Democratic and Secular do NOT control other nations, so they are not responsible for the failures of the countries in question. This is an obvious fact. However, a good start for any country trying to tackle poverty and hunger is the establishment of a secular democracy. Because it creates an environment that fosters equity and thus creates social harmony. its only through the stability offered by such systems that a nation can hope to create a viable economic platform from which to grow and solve complex issues like poverty and hunger.
There are many complex reason for the existence of poverty and hunger. Simply being secular and democratic doesnt instantly resolve the complex issues that are involved. Secular democracy is a means to an ends, but not the end unto itself.
You dont understand what secular means, and you seem to have a very shallow understanding of Islam and the world in general. You use cliches like the term "Kuffar," and pretend you know what your takling about, but i dont think u do. Brother Psyah well meaning as he is, believes your just being sarcastic. I think you genuinely feel that the existence is poverty is a rebuke of secular democracy as whole... I mean, your argument is so pathetically asinine, it probably should have been ignored.
Secularism and democracy combined exploit nations around the world the likes of The united States, britian and what is known as the G8 nations force debt on nations across africa, asia and latin america and steal the resources of these nations under the guise of free trade.
Governments in particular the united states, britian, france control many nations pakistan being the perfect example they dictate the economic, foriegn and every policy. To claim imperialism and exploitation and control of nations does not happen shows you are a shallow and very naive individual.
Having had the good part of over 100 years the secular governments who promised to eradicate world debt and hunger have failed miserably.
In africa People go hungry because crops are sold to other countries to pay for interest bearing debts' its all linked.
you get ants in your pants as soon as anyone exposes the fallacy of secularism and the shallowness of democracy and the bankrupt policies of capitalism. You have no answers face it all you have is a reactionary attitude to blame muslims and islam for every problem while at same time giving a clean bill of health for secular democracy that is ignorant!
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Secularism and democracy combined exploit nations around the world the likes of The united States, britian and what is known as the G8 nations force debt on nations across africa, asia and latin america and steal the resources of these nations under the guise of free trade.
Governments in particular the united states, britian, france control many nations pakistan being the perfect example they dictate the economic, foriegn and every policy. To claim imperialism and exploitation and control of nations does not happen shows you are a shallow and very naive individual.
Having had the good part of over 100 years the secular governments who promised to eradicate world debt and hunger have failed miserably.
In africa People go hungry because crops are sold to other countries to pay for interest bearing debts' its all linked.
you get ants in your pants as soon as anyone exposes the fallacy of secularism and the shallowness of democracy and the bankrupt policies of capitalism. You have no answers face it all you have is a reactionary attitude to blame muslims and islam for every problem while at same time giving a clean bill of health for secular democracy that is ignorant!
Secularism means separation of state from religion, while Democracy is the belief that the people of a nation should choose their leaders. How exactly do these two concepts join forces to exploit poorer nations, and how would a non secular non Democratic nation prevent such exploitation? You gripe seems to be with globalization and capitalism not secularism. Elaborate.
Pakistan is controlled because it cant run its own coffers and must run of to beg for loans and such every other year... Pakistan has formulated its own foriegn and domestic policies which have been disasterous. Take the Pakistan involvement in Afghanistan, in Kashmir, Pakistans inept handling of the Bangladesh situation. You cant blame the Americans for Pakistans own failings. Regardless, how is Americas supposed control of Pakistan due to Secualar Democracy? Havent non Secular countries also controled pakistan? You dont think the Saudi Sheiks have any control over Pakistan and her policies? Countries like Pakistan put themselves in a situation with others can exploit them. If the Pakistanis would get their act together, they wouldnt be beholden to foreign dictates.
The secular govt's never promised anything. And even if they had, I dont see how its secular democracy that failed to feed people in poor countries. How for example, does Secularism in the West impact the issue of lack of infrastructure inestment in developing countries? For example, produce is wasted for lack of storage capacity. Is that the fault of secularism?
If Africans are paying interest bearing debts, who's fault is that they have to become indebted? Do those countries bear no responsibility of there own? And regardless, what does secualrism, the belief that religion is separate from state have to do with debt in Africa? If they werent secular, the problem of debt would instantly be solved by God himself?
Your seem to confuse Secularism for Capitalism and Market economies...I dont see how its the fault of Secualr democracy in the west, that people arent being fed in Africa and South Asia etc. You havent made you point. You simply say Secularism = Hunger.. But you dont tell us how it does that specifically. If your concern is with intrest based loans, then isnt it the responsibility of Non Secualr rich countries like Saudia to create such a system?
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Secularism means separation of state from religion, while Democracy is the belief that the people of a nation should choose their leaders. How exactly do these two concepts join forces to exploit poorer nations, and how would a non secular non Democratic nation prevent such exploitation? You gripe seems to be with globalization and capitalism not secularism. Elaborate.
Pakistan is controlled because it cant run its own coffers and must run of to beg for loans and such every other year... Pakistan has formulated its own foriegn and domestic policies which have been disasterous. Take the Pakistan involvement in Afghanistan, in Kashmir, Pakistans inept handling of the Bangladesh situation. You cant blame the Americans for Pakistans own failings. Regardless, how is Americas supposed control of Pakistan due to Secualar Democracy? Havent non Secular countries also controled pakistan? You dont think the Saudi Sheiks have any control over Pakistan and her policies? Countries like Pakistan put themselves in a situation with others can exploit them. If the Pakistanis would get their act together, they wouldnt be beholden to foreign dictates.
The secular govt's never promised anything. And even if they had, I dont see how its secular democracy that failed to feed people in poor countries. How for example, does Secularism in the West impact the issue of lack of infrastructure inestment in developing countries? For example, produce is wasted for lack of storage capacity. Is that the fault of secularism?
If Africans are paying interest bearing debts, who's fault is that they have to become indebted? Do those countries bear no responsibility of there own? And regardless, what does secualrism, the belief that religion is separate from state have to do with debt in Africa? If they werent secular, the problem of debt would instantly be solved by God himself?
Your seem to confuse Secularism for Capitalism and Market economies...I dont see how its the fault of Secualr democracy in the west, that people arent being fed in Africa and South Asia etc. You havent made you point. You simply say Secularism = Hunger.. But you dont tell us how it does that specifically. If your concern is with intrest based loans, then isnt it the responsibility of Non Secualr rich countries like Saudia to create such a system?
Not one nation has been sucessful from taking IMF and World bank loans which are tools of the United states i.e they have the majority votes and they dictate its policies not to mention they sit stones throw from barack obamas office window in washington.
a few examples of how IMF/World Bank destroy nations with their loans.
Argentina labelled by the IMF to be a model country in its compliance to policy proposals however it had a catastrophic economic crisis in 2001, which was caused by IMF-induced budget restrictions. It led to economic crisis and left Argentina with an enormous $94 billion in debts.
Jamaica dollar was worth more than US dollar in 1979 after it shook the bloody hand of the IMF when it finally escaped the clutches of the IMF in 1995 the jamican dollar was worth US 2 cents!
Nigeria president says it all
“All that we had borrowed up to 1985 or 1986 was around $5 billion and we have paid about $16 billion yet we are still being told that we owe about $28 billion. That $28 billion came about because of the injustice in the foreign creditors’ (lenders) interest rates. If you ask me what is the worst thing in the world? I will say it is compound interest.”
- Former Nigerian President, Obasanjo.
And you then expect these atheist secular governments to offer solutions for the world telling us to embrace democracy and capitalism, stop lying and please grow up!
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Not one nation has been sucessful from taking IMF and World bank loans which are tools of the United states i.e they have the majority votes and they dictate its policies not to mention they sit stones throw from barack obamas office window in washington.
a few examples of how IMF/World Bank destroy nations with their loans.
Argentina labelled by the IMF to be a model country in its compliance to policy proposals however it had a catastrophic economic crisis in 2001, which was caused by IMF-induced budget restrictions. It led to economic crisis and left Argentina with an enormous $94 billion in debts.
Jamaica dollar was worth more than US dollar in 1979 after it shook the bloody hand of the IMF when it finally escaped the clutches of the IMF in 1995 the jamican dollar was worth US 2 cents!
Nigeria president says it all
“All that we had borrowed up to 1985 or 1986 was around $5 billion and we have paid about $16 billion yet we are still being told that we owe about $28 billion. That $28 billion came about because of the injustice in the foreign creditors’ (lenders) interest rates. If you ask me what is the worst thing in the world? I will say it is compound interest.”
- Former Nigerian President, Obasanjo.
And you then expect these atheist secular governments to offer solutions for the world telling us to embrace democracy and capitalism, stop lying and please grow up!
Did IMF put gun on those people's head and force them to take loans? Copying and pasting articles wont make any point unless you read them yourself. According to your logic i dont see non secular governments giving out free money to solve world problems.
Saudia give you free money, look what it took in return. I would have taken loan and defaulted on it instead of taking free money from Arabs.
Forget about IMF, if you owe money to anyone then you gonna have hard time.
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Did IMF put gun on those people's head and force them to take loans? Copying and pasting articles wont make any point unless you read them yourself. According to your logic i dont see non secular governments giving out free money to solve world problems.
Saudia give you free money, look what it took in return. I would have taken loan and defaulted on it instead of taking free money from Arabs.
Forget about IMF, if you owe money to anyone then you gonna have hard time.
lol.. Javed saab doesnt know what he is against or what he is for. How does one explain to someone who thinks everything bad in the world, is somehow connected to "secularism."
And these are the ones trying to control govt policy!
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Not one nation has been sucessful from taking IMF and World bank loans which are tools of the United states i.e they have the majority votes and they dictate its policies not to mention they sit stones throw from barack obamas office window in washington.
a few examples of how IMF/World Bank destroy nations with their loans.
Argentina labelled by the IMF to be a model country in its compliance to policy proposals however it had a catastrophic economic crisis in 2001, which was caused by IMF-induced budget restrictions. It led to economic crisis and left Argentina with an enormous $94 billion in debts.
Jamaica dollar was worth more than US dollar in 1979 after it shook the bloody hand of the IMF when it finally escaped the clutches of the IMF in 1995 the jamican dollar was worth US 2 cents!
Nigeria president says it all
“All that we had borrowed up to 1985 or 1986 was around $5 billion and we have paid about $16 billion yet we are still being told that we owe about $28 billion. That $28 billion came about because of the injustice in the foreign creditors’ (lenders) interest rates. If you ask me what is the worst thing in the world? I will say it is compound interest.”
- Former Nigerian President, Obasanjo.
And you then expect these atheist secular governments to offer solutions for the world telling us to embrace democracy and capitalism, stop lying and please grow up!
You didnt answer one single question I asked you... If you have even an ounce of credibility, then please answer the questions I posted in post #47.
Secularism is belief that religion should be separate from govt. What does that have to do with the IMF?
Democracy is the belief that a people have a right to rule themsleves, and elect their own representatives.
Capitalism is an economic model.
What does any of this have to do with Secularism? The IMF is secular lending organization? How does a lending organization not be secular? every bank should be run by a mullah?
Honestly, I liked you better when you played cricket...
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
As much as we dislike, it is javedmiandad and ajazali that are the majority of Pakistan. They are the ones making policies and running the country in general.
No wind Pakistan is a mess at this moment.
The world produces food to feed world 4 times in article above it argues enough for 10 billion people. So its question of nations not distributing the food some get fat and destroy excess food while others starve.
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
As much as we dislike, it is javedmiandad and ajazali that are the majority of Pakistan. They are the ones making policies and running the country in general.
No wind Pakistan is a mess at this moment.
Wrong again the politicians of Pakistan are the very one who have embraced the corrupt secular political system which made pakistan a joke also they embrace bankrupt capitalist economic model. The very one that inflicts IMF loans and foreign interference.
The ignorant secularists offer more of the same and that's the inconvenient truth you cannot take!
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
But WTF does that have to do with Secularism!!! Secularism doesnt say anything on food distribution because it has nothing to do with how food is distributed…
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
Wrong again the politicians of Pakistan are the very one who have embraced the corrupt secular political system which made pakistan a joke also they embrace bankrupt capitalist economic model. The very one that inflicts IMF loans and foreign interference.
The ignorant secularists offer more of the same and that's the inconvenient truth you cannot take!
The inconvenient truth is that you dont know what you talking about...
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
But WTF does that have to do with Secularism?!?! Secularism doesnt say anything on food distribution because it has nothing to do with how food is distributed...
Answer that question.
More abuse oh dear
Moderators please take note.
Clue is in the thread secular governments who have vicious capitslist principles oh what you didn't realise USA, UK are secular really trying to feign and deceive childishly is a new low even for you.
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
More abuse oh dear
Moderators please take note.
Clue is in the thread secular governments who have vicious capitslist principles oh what you didn't realise USA, UK are secular really trying to feign and deceive childishly is a new low even for you.
Abuse? Do you know what abuse even is?
Capitalism and secularism are two different things. To be a Capitalist doesn't mean you are Secular, nor does secular make you a capitalist. Problems associated with capitalism have nothing to do with secularism. These are two different things. America is not Capitalist because its secular, nor is it secualr simply because it is capitalist...
You logic = USA is secular; USA is capitalist; Capitalist = Secualrist.
Similar logic = Pakistanis are brown; Pakistanis eat Briyani; Brown people = Briyani !
Your not making a point. Your simply repeating the same cliches over and over in order to appear smart and informed, but in reality you haven't answered any of the questions i asked you.
I ask you how secularism is responsible for the countries in debt and you respond with, debt, debt, us, uk, IMF, secular, imperialists!
Re: why have the athiest governments not solved world hunger ?
More abuse oh dear
Moderators please take note.
Clue is in the thread secular governments who have vicious capitslist principles oh what you didn't realise USA, UK are secular really trying to feign and deceive childishly is a new low even for you.
Lets make it simple. Just tell me how America separating Church and State directly contributed to hunger in places like Africa, South Asia, Afghanistan, etc...
What does a starving child in Somalia have to do with America not mixing govt with religion... If America were NOT secular, how would that same child be fed as opposed to before.
How is it that countries that are NOT secular, havent solved world hunger. Why are there children in Pakistan who are starving when the Saudis have Billions at heir disposal, and which instead of helping their fellow Muslim, they spend on Luxury jets and huge parties! Why do you not ask the same question of those countries claiming to be Islamic? *Dont ignore the question like you did before. *
