Brother Baoo
I agree i learned a lot about FARDS and Pronounciation of Koran
from Tableeghees. But don’t give them more than 3 or 4 days.
And please read their book FAZAIL AMAL again. Some of the
topics SEEMS fabricated. Please, brother read it again.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Brother Baoo
I agree i learned a lot about FARDS and Pronounciation of Koran
from Tableeghees. But don't give them more than 3 or 4 days.
And please read their book FAZAIL AMAL again. Some of the
topics SEEMS fabricated. Please, brother read it again.
[/QUOTE]
kindly point the fabricated ones....
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by rehman1: *
Brother Baoo
I agree i learned a lot about FARDS and **Pronounciation of Koran*
from Tableeghees. But don't give them more than 3 or 4 days.
And please read their book FAZAIL AMAL again. Some of the
topics SEEMS fabricated. Please, brother read it again.
[/QUOTE]
Since when "Tableeghi" brothers started teaching "pronounciation of Quran"??? or were you totally way out on pronounciation?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Since when "Tableeghi" brothers started teaching "pronounciation of Quran"??? or were you totally way out on pronounciation?
[/QUOTE]
yeah i think that is the duties of qaree who teach you quran not the tableghi's.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Since when "Tableeghi" brothers started teaching "pronounciation of Quran"??? or were you totally way out on pronounciation?
[/QUOTE]
its like their routine on first day that people gather around and recite
Last SURAHS of Koran. And it was pointed out that I WAS making a few mistakes. And even one mistake, IS ONE TOO MANY.
So they helped me out.
Kher they are doing a good job. As long as you stay with them for
few days. Because soon they start to talk about THEIR
people back at RAIWAND. Their BUZARGS. As far as i am
concerned i am least interested in anybodys stories or routine
except Prophet Muhammad(SAW) and his(SAW) companions(RA).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
kindly point the fabricated ones....
[/QUOTE]
Give me time. And i will point out the deviations.
few of my mates become quite tableghi copule of years back and went for the 40 days to sydney and
after that they never went back even for the 3 days.
coz they found
1) that 80% of the tableghis do not want to listen to you point of view and want to force their own teachign on you in polite way.
2) they strongly believe in cold calling and do not respect any ones privacy coz to them its brotherhood.
3) 50% +/- tablegis are madrassa students ( no wisdom of their own)
4) 25% +/-of them are people who are not at all higly educated and run their own business and are just there to go to Heaven.
5) 15% +/- are the highly educated but very confused (e.g. not using jews made things but watching movies etc) and calling indian our enimies and forgettign that 30% of inda is our muslim brothers)
6) 5%+/ are very higly motivated and intelectuall ppeople
7) 5% +/- are th one who are controlling rest 95%
37) Zikr is the basic principle of Tasawwuf (Sufiism) and is in vogue in all the schools of Sufi-ism. A person who gets conversant with Zikr enters the gateway to Almighty Allah, and one who enters this gate-way is sure to reach Almighty Allah, from whom he will get whatever he wants, for Allah’s treasures are unlimited.
THIS ONE KUCH SAMJH NAHE AYA
- The Nur (radiance) of Zikr remains with a person in his life as well as in his grave. It will go in front of him on the ‘Pulsarat’ (waybridge) in the Hereafter. Almighty Allah says in the Quran: (Can he who was dead and whom we gave life, and a light whereby he can walk among men, be like him who is in utter darkness whence he cannot emerge). The one mentioned first is the faithful, who believes in Allah and shines with the light of His love, Zikr, and cognizance, while the second one is devoid of all these virtues. In reality this radiance (Nur) is a great blessing and leads to perfect success. That is why Rasulullah (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) used to beg for it in prolonged prayers, and prayed for Nur for every part of his body. As mentioned in many Ahadith Rasulullah (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) prayed that Almighty Allah may bless his flesh, bones, muscles, hair, skin, eyes and ears with Nur, and that he may be surrounded with Nur on all sides; he even prayed that he may be blessed with Nur from top to bottom, and that his whole person may be made into Nur. One’s deeds will shine according to the Nur in oneself, so much so that the good deeds of some people (while going up to heaven) will shine like the Sun. similar Noor will be found in their faces on the Day of Judgement.
I will find some more info and post.
http://www.ahya.org/news/nashirt_eng.pdf
Also have a look at these few pages.
A brief quote from the PDF file.
their norm is to mention quranic verses, fragments of hadith, stories and fables, stories of their elders and karguzraris without distinguishing between them-all along giving the ignorant people the notion that all of this has come from ALLAH for the guidance of people.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
kindly point the fabricated ones....
[/QUOTE]
Here is what i found. Now i am tired.
This one is authentic. also look at the bottom for references.
Its reply to TABLIGHEES for their deviations.
Praise be to Allaah. _
When Hudhayfah asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, we were in a state of ignorance and evil, then Allaah brought us this good. Will there be any evil after this good?” the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Yes.” Hudahyfah asked, “Will there be any good after that evil?” He said, “Yes, but it would be tainted with dakhan (i.e. a little evil).” I asked, “What will its dakhan be?” He said, “There will be some people who will guide (people) according to something other than my guidance and will lead them according to something other than my Sunnah. You will see their actions and disapprove of them.” Hudhayfah said, “Will there be any evil after that good?” He said, “Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them).” Hudhayfah said, “O Messenger of Allaah, describe those people to us.” He said, “They will be from among us and speak our language (i.e., from among the Arabs).” Hudhayfah asked, “What do you command us to do at that point?” He said, “Adhere to the jamaa’ah (group) of the Muslims and their leader.” Hudhayfah asked, “What if there is no jamaa’ah and no leader?” He said, “Keep away from all those different sects, even if you have to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you die while you are still in that state.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim)._
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kewlsolara: *
few of my mates become quite tableghi copule of years back and went for the 40 days to sydney and
after that they never went back even for the 3 days.
coz they found
1) that 80% of the tableghis do not want to listen to you point of view and want to force their own teachign on you in polite way.
2) they strongly believe in cold calling and do not respect any ones privacy coz to them its brotherhood.
3) 50% +/- tablegis are madrassa students ( no wisdom of their own)
4) 25% +/-of them are people who are not at all higly educated and run their own business and are just there to go to Heaven.
5) 15% +/- are the highly educated but very confused (e.g. not using jews made things but watching movies etc) and calling indian our enimies and forgettign that 30% of inda is our muslim brothers)
6) 5%+/ are very higly motivated and intelectuall ppeople
7) 5% +/- are th one who are controlling rest 95%
[/QUOTE]
I strongly disagree "kewlsolara"
dear brother kewlsolara islam was not supposed to be for educated and the most of sahaba were not educated poor people.
and remember islam will continue to be spread by these poor "uneducated" & madrassa students.
Actually we have not been able to uderstand what is the aim of tableeghi jammat and then we also feel free to comment on it as we do on other islamic things becuz v r educated intelectuals.
more than one lakh 24,000 messengers have been send for mankind.
after nabi kareem sallahoalaihiwassalm nabuwat is closed and it is the responsibility of muslims to do what messengers used to do that is tell pople about allah
i m not saying that the tableeghi are perfect but their message is indeed the Best at present.
we run away frm them becuz we have to take out time for smething very and mostunimportant and certainly tableegh do bring some mujahida with it a very fractional taste of sahaba's difficulties.
since all of us wanna go in jannat and be part of the rigth group.
pray allah that if u like tableeghi's make us their part and the most efficient one and if u don't like them keep us away from them.
Rehman.......thanks a ton.....but kindly make a refrence to the fazail e aamal........main kahan dhondo ga in refrences ko.....also plz point out the objections on these quotations......
i agree with ophiolites.......
also...with such span of work........there ought to be some black sheeps as are present anywhere else.....though i dont attach with tableeghees but i dont dislike them.........
sorry here is the ref.
i have just given me one hadith and tell me whether its authentic or not.
and when you go to their website and read their book “fazail amal”.
you will understand my pointfo view.
FIRST PAGE:authentic hadiths.with arabic and references.
SECOND PAGE:Hadith without references.
Third page: Hadith and their interpretation and within the
paragraphs BUZARGS ke BATEEE.
Its like a lot of mixing of words. Man, its very cleverly written
stuff.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
Rehman.......thanks a ton.....but kindly make a refrence to the fazail e aamal........main kahan dhondo ga in refrences ko.....also plz point out the objections on these quotations......
i agree with ophiolites.......
also...with such span of work........there ought to be some black sheeps as are present anywhere else.....though i dont attach with tableeghees but i dont dislike them.........
[/QUOTE]
37) Zikr is the basic principle of Tasawwuf (Sufiism) and is in vogue in all the schools of Sufi-ism. A person who gets conversant with Zikr enters the gateway to Almighty Allah, and one who enters this gate-way is sure to reach Almighty Allah, from whom he will get whatever he wants, for Allah’s treasures are unlimited.
i am posting this again for your ref.it was on their website.talk about sufism.
and the second ref is about NUR. i am not sure about that hadith,
that they have posted. i will spend more time on their book.
and let you know what i find out.
Also refer to these ref.
Praise be to Allaah.
The Deobandis are one of the groups of Muslims. This group is connected to and named after the University of Deoband – Dar al-Uloom – in India. It is an intellectual school of thought that is deeply rooted, and everyone who graduated from that university was influenced by its academic characteristics, so that they became known as Deobandis.
The University of Deoband was founded by a group of Indian ‘ulamaa’ (scholars) after the British had put a stop to the Islamic revolution in India in 1857 CE. Its establishment was a strong reaction against western advancement and its materialistic civilization in the Indian Subcontinent, aimed at saving the Muslims from the dangers of these circumstances, especially when Delhi, the capital, had been destroyed following the revolution and the British had taken full control of it. The scholars feared that their religion might be assimilated, so Shaykh Imdaadullaah al-Muhaajir al-Makki and his student Shaykh Muhammad Qaasim al-Nanatuwi, and their companions, drew up a plan to protect Islam and its teachings. They thought that the solution was to establish religious schools and Islamic centers, thus al-Madrasah al-Islamiyyah al-Arabiyyah was established in Deoband as a center for Islam and Sharee’ah in India at the time of British rule.
The most prominent figures of this intellectual school:
1- Muhammad Qaasim
2- Rasheed Ahmad al-Kankoohi
3- Husayn Ahmad al-Madani
4- Muhammad Anwaar Shah al-Kashmiri
5- Abu’l-Hasan al-Nadvi
6- Al-Muhaddith Habeeb al-Rahmaan al-A’zami
Thoughts and beliefs
With regard to basic tenets of belief (‘aqeedah), they follow the madhhab of Abu Mansoor al-Maatreedi.
They follow the madhhab of Imaam Abu Haneefah with regard to fiqh and minor issues.
They follow the Sufi tareeqahs of the Naqshbandiyyah, Chishtiyyah, Qaadiriyyah and Saharwardiyyah with regard to spiritual development.
The thoughts and principles of the Deobandi school may be summed up as follows:
-
Preserving the teachings of Islam and its strength and rituals. -
Spreading Islam and resisting destructive schools of thought and missionary activity. -
Spreading Islamic culture and resisting the invading British culture. -
Paying attention to spreading the Arabic language because it is the means of benefiting from the sources of Islamic sharee’ah. -
Combining reason and emotion, and knowledge and spirituality.
See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fil Adyaan wal Madhaahib (1/308).
Because the Deobandis follow the Maatreedi madhhab with regard to belief (‘aqeedah), we have to define what al-Maatreediyyah is:
This is a philosophical (kalaami) group which is named after Abu Mansoor al-Maatreedi. It is based on using rational and philosophical proof and evidence in disputes with opponents from among the Mu’tazilah, Jahamiyyah and others to establish the truths of religion and Islamic ‘aqeedah (belief). With regard to sources, the Maatreediyyah divide the bases of religion into two categories depending on the source:
1 – Divine or rational: these are matters which are established independently by reason and the reports follow that. This includes issues of Tawheed and the Divine attributes.
2 – Legislative matters or transmitted reports, These are matters which reason states may or may not exist, but there is no way to prove rationally that they exist, such as Prophethood, the torment of the grave and issues of the Hereafter. It should be noted that some of them regarded Prophethood as coming under the heading of rational issues.
It is obvious that this is contradictory to the methodology of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, because the Qur’aan, Sunnah and consensus of the Sahaabah are the sources of guidance in their view. This is in addition to their bid’ah (innovation) of dividing the sources of religion into rational matters vs. transmitted reports, which was based on the false notion of the philosophers who assumed that the religious texts contradict reason, so they tried to mediate between reason and the transmitted reports. This led them to force reason into fields where it has no place, so they came up with false rulings which contradicted sharee’ah, and that led them to say that they did not know what the texts mean and that only Allaah knows their meaning, or to misinterpret them altogether. In the view of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, on the other hand, there is no contradiction between sound reason and the sound transmitted reports.
See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah, 1/99
Attitude of Ahl al-Sunnah towards the Maatreediyyah
It was narrated from the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that this ummah would split into seventy-three sects, all of which would be in the Fire apart from one. The Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained that the saved group is the Jamaa’ah, which is the group that follows the same path as the Messenger SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions.
Undoubtedly Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, who adhere to the Qur’aan and Sunnah in terms of both knowledge and actions, are the saved group, and this description applies to them, i.e., they adhere to that which the Messenger SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions adhered to in terms of knowledge and actions.
It is not sufficient for an individual or group merely to claim to belong to the Sunnah whilst going against the methodology of the salaf, namely the Sahaabah and Taabi’een. Rather it is essential to adhere to their methodology in knowledge, action, approach and spiritual development.
The Maatreediyyah are one of the groups whose opinions include true and false views, and some things that go against the Sunnah. It is known that these groups vary with regard to the truth, how near or far they are; the closer they are to the Sunnah, the closer they are to the truth and the right way. Among them are some who went against the Sunnah with regard to basic principles, and some who went against the Sunnah with regard to more subtle issues. There are some who refuted other groups who are farther away from the Sunnah, so they are to be praised with regard to their refutation of falsehood and what they have said of truth, but they have overstepped the mark in so far as they have rejected part of the truth and gone along with some falsehood. So they have refuted a serious bid’ah by means of a lesser bid’ah, and refuted falsehood with a lesser form of falsehood. This is the case with most of the philosophers (ahl al-kalaam) who claim to belong to Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah…”
(From the words of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, al-Fataawa, 1/348).
There remains one important question to be answered, which is: what is our duty towards the Maatreediyyah and groups who hold similar beliefs such as the Deobandis and others?
The answer varies according to differences in the persons involved.
If someone is stubborn and propagates his bid’ah, then we must warn others about him and explain where he has gone wrong and deviated. But if he does not propagate his bid’ah and it is clear from his words and actions that he is seeking the truth and striving for that purpose, then we should advise him and explain to him what is wrong with this belief, and guide him in a manner that is better; perhaps Allaah will bring him back to the truth. This advice is included in the words of the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Religion is sincerity (or sincere advice).” We [the Sahabah] asked, “To whom?” He said, “To Allaah and His Book, and His Messenger, and to the leaders of the Muslims and their common folk.”
(Narrated by Muslim, 55).
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)
Jazak’Allah Khair brother Rehman :k:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
I strongly disagree "kewlsolara"
dear brother kewlsolara islam was not supposed to be for educated and the most of sahaba were not educated poor people.
and remember islam will continue to be spread by these poor "uneducated" & madrassa students.
[/QUOTE]
Dear brother , Islam is for everyone not only for poor and un educated.
Islam was basically spread by the good actions of the muslims. their dealing , way of trade and specaill their treating of other people.
It was accepted by poor mostly (specially in indopak) because they were not treated as equal by the society.
[Quote]
Actually we have not been able to uderstand what is the aim of tableeghi jammat and then we also feel free to comment on it as we do on other islamic things becuz v r educated intelectuals.
[/Quote]
I completly understand the meaning of Tableghi jammat, but what 80% of the tableghis dont understand is to accept and then argue other peoples point of view.
If a PHD professor teaches to a class of 15 years old about chemistry but at the PHD level , not a single student will understand, unless untill he well teach them like 15 years old.
similarly if a tableghi who come to teach about islam and dosent posses manners to talk and sit properly and is not ready to listen to other peoples point of view and then dose not have enough wisdom to answer the quiries , is no good.
[quote]
more than one lakh 24,000 messengers have been send for mankind.
after nabi kareem sallahoalaihiwassalm nabuwat is closed and it is the responsibility of muslims to do what messengers used to do that is tell pople about allah
i m not saying that the tableeghi are perfect but their message is indeed the Best at present.
[/quote]
i agree , their message is the best
[quote]
we run away frm them becuz we have to take out time for smething very and mostunimportant and certainly tableegh do bring some mujahida with it a very fractional taste of sahaba's difficulties.
[/quote]
No We run away from them becoz they do not have any presentation and they can not convince enough and can not answer our question. so for a person who first try to teach/ tell me about some thing and then cant clear my mind about my questions is just waste of time.
[quote]
since all of us wanna go in jannat and be part of the rigth group.
pray allah that if u like tableeghi's make us their part and the most efficient one and if u don't like them keep us away from them.
[/quote]
I pray that all the time , especially more often from todays onwards.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kewlsolara: *
Dear brother , Islam is for everyone not only for poor and un educated.
Islam was basically spread by the good actions of the muslims. their dealing , way of trade and specaill their treating of other people.
It was accepted by poor mostly (specially in indopak) because they were not treated as equal by the society.
I completly understand the meaning of Tableghi jammat, but what 80% of the tableghis dont understand is to accept and then argue other peoples point of view.
If a PHD professor teaches to a class of 15 years old about chemistry but at the PHD level , not a single student will understand, unless untill he well teach them like 15 years old.
similarly if a tableghi who come to teach about islam and dosent posses manners to talk and sit properly and is not ready to listen to other peoples point of view and then dose not have enough wisdom to answer the quiries , is no good.
i agree , their message is the best
No We run away from them becoz they do not have any presentation and they can not convince enough and can not answer our question. so for a person who first try to teach/ tell me about some thing and then cant clear my mind about my questions is just waste of time.
I pray that all the time , especially more often from todays onwards.
[/QUOTE]
As i said earlier Tableeghis are deviants. Lekn when they are visitng somebody they are extra nice. And they only talk about Tawheed and
Namaz. They are not impressed by house or cars or their wifes.
They don't even eat or drink at the visitors house.
Man, you don't know anything.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
As i said earlier Tableeghis are deviants. Lekn when they are visitng somebody they are extra nice. And they only talk about Tawheed and
Namaz. They are not impressed by house or cars or their wifes.
They don't even eat or drink at the visitors house.
Man, you don't know anything.
[/QUOTE]
considering that you are opposing me on both threads :) and telling me that i dont know any thing
then why are you telling us to not to give them more than 3-4 days ???? why not have few weeks and 40 days with them???
and
you are the one who claimed the tablegi's books being fabricated not me.
care to explain????
rehman …sorry bhai…i still dont see anything fabricated here…these may be daif ahadith …(it is always mentioned in “faida” written by hadrat moulana zakariyya) plz dont believe the ahya ppl …they even dont let anyone explain the opposite view ..closing the thread…so that explains their onesidedness…
i seriously doubt that deobandies r deviant from the mainstream…many stories that have no basis r spread about them…many deobandi ulema question some ahadith that htey r daif …but i have not seen anyone questioning on the basis of fabrication…
Kweleswera i agree with u regarding tableghees to some extent…but as i have said before there r many different types of ppl there …if u have bad experiance then pray with ALLAh …inshallah u 'll get attached with abetter jammat …otherwsie attaching with thme may cause more harm then benift…
sorry for the spelling mistakes…i am considering to include it in my signature 