Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Why does Pakistan still support Taliban? Does ISI play any role in this in nurturing Islamic insurgency.

Jan. 21, 2007 at 10:00AM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi/20070121-095620-7491r.htm

There is evidence Pakistan is supporting a Taliban resurgence along the border of Afghanistan, the New York Times said Sunday.

  Pakistani officials denied the allegations from Western diplomats, saying it supported U.S. and NATO forces that drove Taliban militants from control in Afghanistan in 2001, The Times said. 

  But the newspaper said interviews with many residents indicate Pakistani officials are "encouraging" the Taliban. 

  A former Taliban commander told the newspaper he was jailed in Pakistan for refusing to fight in Afghanistan. Other former Taliban members who would not re-enlist have been arrested or killed, sources told The Times. 
  "The Pakistanis are actively supporting the Taliban," a Western diplomat told the newspaper. 
  After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States, President Pervez Musharraf said he would battle Islamic extremism in Pakistan. 
  But analysts told The Times Pakistani officials are preparing for the day when Western troops leave Afghanistan. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/world/asia/21quetta.html?hp&ex=1169442000&en=671457afad271bb2&ei=5094&partner=homepage

By CARLOTTA GALL
Published: January 21, 2007
QUETTA, Pakistan — The most explosive question about the Taliban resurgence here along the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is this: Have Pakistani intelligence agencies been promoting the Islamic insurgency?

The government of Pakistan vehemently rejects the allegation and insists that it is fully committed to help American and NATO forces prevail against the Taliban militants who were driven from power in Afghanistan in 2001.

Western diplomats in both countries and Pakistani opposition figures say that Pakistani intelligence agencies — in particular the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence and Military Intelligence — have been supporting a Taliban restoration, motivated not only by Islamic fervor but also by a longstanding view that the jihadist movement allows them to assert greater influence on Pakistan’s vulnerable western flank.

More than two weeks of reporting along this frontier, including dozens of interviews with residents on each side of the porous border, leaves little doubt that Quetta is an important base for the Taliban, and found many signs that Pakistani authorities are encouraging the insurgents, if not sponsoring them.

The evidence is provided in fearful whispers, and it is anecdotal.

At Jamiya Islamiya, a religious school here in Quetta, Taliban sympathies are on flagrant display, and residents say students have gone with their teachers’ blessings to die in suicide bombings in Afghanistan.

Three families whose sons had died as suicide bombers in Afghanistan said they were afraid to talk about the deaths because of pressure from Pakistani intelligence agents. Local people say dozens of families have lost sons in Afghanistan as suicide bombers and fighters.

One former Taliban commander said in an interview that he had been jailed by Pakistani intelligence officials because he would not go to Afghanistan to fight. He said that, for Western and local consumption, his arrest had been billed as part of Pakistan’s crackdown on the Taliban in Pakistan. Former Taliban members who have refused to fight in Afghanistan have been arrested — or even mysteriously killed — after resisting pressure to re-enlist in the Taliban, Pakistani and Afghan tribal elders said.

“The Pakistanis are actively supporting the Taliban,” declared a Western diplomat in an interview in Kabul. He said he had seen an intelligence report of a recent meeting on the Afghan border between a senior Taliban commander and a retired colonel of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence.

Pakistanis and Afghans interviewed on the frontier, frightened by the long reach of Pakistan’s intelligence agencies, spoke only with assurances that they would not be named. Even then, they spoke cautiously.

The Pakistani military and intelligence services have for decades used religious parties as a convenient instrument to keep domestic political opponents at bay and for foreign policy adventures, said Husain Haqqani, a former adviser to several of Pakistan’s prime ministers and the author of a book on the relationship between the Islamists and the Pakistani security forces.

The religious parties recruited for the jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan from the 1980s, when the Pakistani intelligence agencies ran the resistance by the mujahedeen and channeled money to them from the United States and Saudi Arabia to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, Mr. Haqqani said.

In return for help in Kashmir and Afghanistan the intelligence services would rig votes for the religious parties and allow them freedom to operate, he said.

“The religious parties provide them with recruits, personnel, cover and deniability,” Mr. Haqqani said in a telephone interview from Washington, where he is now a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

The Inter-Services Intelligence once had an entire wing dedicated to training jihadis, he said. Today the religious parties probably have enough of their own people to do the training, but, he added, the I.S.I. so thoroughly monitors phone calls and people’s movements that it would be almost impossible for any religious party to operate a training camp without its knowledge.

“They trained the people who are at the heart of it all, and they have done nothing to roll back their protégés,” Mr. Haqqani said

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

If its true, then the Pakistani govt has a lot to answer for... I for one hope the Westerners force the govt to change its ways once and for all, whatever that entails.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Look who is telling all this "NEWS": NY Times and Washington Times, yeah we believe ya yawn

Did these jacks read about Pakistan fencing the border? Why would Pakistan fence/mine the borders if they were supporting Taliban "officially"?

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Didn;t NY Times and Washington Times also report that there were WMDs in Iraq?

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

al kayda <> taleban <> tribals <> pashtuns

the day they understand it, they may be able to plan things a litle better. what they consider 'taleban' is a pahstun movement ..which includes former taleban, because they dont like the domination of northern alliance type warlords in the Kharzai govt that allied forces propped up.

whyc are NYT and washington post not writing that the Taleban's major source of funding is from sale of drugs grown in the lands run by warlords who are part of Kharzai govt.

In denying the pashtuns good representation in the govt, its the allied forces planners that have blundered into pashtun masses getting up in arms against them, which includes former taleban.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Not quite, they reported the twisted intelligence the Bush administration was giving out

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

This is being reported on and commented by Karzai himself:

KABUL, Jan 21: Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Sunday “certain Pakistani circles” were protecting insurgents fighting in Afghanistan and added that drugs and corruption in his government were contributing to the violence.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/01/22/top2.htm

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Lest we in Pakistan saw the Musharraf-Singh Havana meeting as the start of the stalled dialogue process between Pakistan and India, the diatribes coming out from New Delhi post this meeting should make it clear how wrong we were – yet again!

** India is simply not interested in any serious conflict resolution dialogue and continues to use the opportunity for point scoring – both internally and abroad. In fact, there seems to be a new belligerency in New Delhi’s tone, with accusations against Pakistan and its ISI coming out fast and furious. **

** With such an approach, it hardly seems likely that there can be any rational dialogue with the Indians – unless we take dialogue to mean succumbing to Indian demands on how to “resolve” the outstanding conflicts. Perhaps that is what India is seeking to do with its aggressive rhetoric and accusations.**

Nor is India alone in this. It seems our conciliatory tone has been mistaken for an inherent psychological weakness, with all and sundry attacking the country and its institutions. The British have had the temerity to suggest we dismantle the ISI when it is their intelligence setup that has been hand in glove with internationally illegal activities such as aiding and abetting renditions and secret CIA abduction flights – to name just a few.

And what of the CIA itself? Surely if any agency deserves to be dismantled it is this institution which has had a consistent record of political murders and instigation of regime changes abroad even much before 9/11 – and which now seems to have carte blanche to do as it wishes across the globe.

** This is not to write in defense of our intelligence agency which is under fire, although it is only fair to point out a simple fact that this agency does not have an independent identity or structure since it comprises serving officers from the three services, who rotate through regular postings. So it is an integral part of the military bureaucracy and thus cannot function independently of this bureaucracy, although it may be a powerful segment of that setup. This may not fit the imagines of Pakistan’s detractors but this is the reality on the ground. **

In any case, the purpose presently is primarily to point out that the self-appointed guardians of political morality – that is, the US and UK have a far worse record so they should lead by example and dismantle their agencies guilty of all kinds of illegal and often murderous activities. In fact, the British officer who sought to write an “academic” discourse should first have focused on his own country’s intelligence setups before having the gall to suggest we dismantle ours. Perhaps he has forgotten that British imperialism is a thing of the distant past – recollection of which requires sending British troops as far away as the Malvinas (The Falklands to imperialists).

** As for the British government’s claims that their officer was simply doing an academic exercise, this seems to be a new approach to political interventionism with British and American establishment people writing “academic” discourses on how to restructure Muslim states and societies (recall “Blood Borders”) and what institutions should be dismantled in these countries.** There is a pattern emerging here that needs to be noted, especially since the British government has now taken upon itself to penalize even the thought processes of its Muslim citizens.

Coming back to the controversial work of Western intelligence agencies, why even that consistently high-moral-ground-adopting country, Canada, has now been found guilty of sending its own citizen to Syria to face imprisonment and torture for over a year simply because he was a Muslim of Syrian origin and suspected of having friends who had links with some Al Qaeda suspects. But of course the Canadians attempted to use the US to indulge in this mischief hoping to remain untainted. But the truth does surface eventually and this present Canadian government, obsessively loyal to the US, is now under fire domestically. That is why we should realize that detentions outside of the purview of the law and forced disappearances cause fear and eventually hatred within our own societies.

After all, the state has a whole body of law within which it can protect national interest and its citizens also from terrorism and other crimes – as well as to bring the guilty to book.

** Unfortunately, even as the state is tough on its own citizens here, it seems to have allowed itself to become the whipping boy for all the West’s failures in the war on terror. **Clearly, the assumption that the British would fare well in Afghanistan simply because historically they had had experience in that country, was an absurdity to begin with. Not only had the British never fared particularly well in that region unless they made deals, the new generations in the British Army certainly have no experience in that region to fall back on. Hence they are suffering severe losses, which they should have anticipated.

** Meanwhile, it is indeed an irony that after the US and British media, as well as the US government, subjected Pakistan to scathing criticism for its “deal” with its own tribal citizens, the British military has struck a deal with the Taliban in Afghanistan, in the face of their military failures.** Let us wait and see if the US media and politicians will be equally abusive of the British government and its military for making a deal with the Taliban. More rationally of course, this is a beginning which Pakistan has been suggesting for a while – that is, there is a real need to distinguish between the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Should we now tell the British, “Told you so?”

Meanwhile, India continues to suffer from an “accuse Pakistan” disease so their accusations have almost no credibility here – the anti-Pakistan refrain is to be expected whenever something goes wrong in India. But look at Hamid Karzai. With almost no real power and a country which is still full of foreign military forces who take no orders from the Afghans, he has not only sustained an irrational bellicosity towards Pakistan – to which we are showing too much tolerance – he has also sought to interfere in our internal affairs. This he has done by declaring that he will restore the monthly stipend to our nationals – the FATA elders. This is the “revival of the old Kabul policy”. Well, if he is going to be openly hostile towards Pakistan, is it not time for us to make him aware of the limitations of his political sphere of action? We also need to begin fencing our international border with Afghanistan, wherever physically possible. Of course, given the US control over Afghanistan presently, clearly Mr.Karzai cannot be making his statements without support from the US.

** A****ll in all, it is time Pakistan adopted a more resolute approach with clear red lines of what it will tolerate from our allies and adversaries. The accommodation and tolerance of abuse of the Pakistani state and its institutions from outside should end even as the state develops a more accommodative approach to its own citizens. As for the foreign media and political NGOs funded from abroad, on this count let us follow the Indian example of zero access and zero tolerance for these respectively. After all, enough is enough. **
http://www.pakistanlink.com/Commentary/2006/Oct06/13/01.HTM

The US intent towards Pakistan has now become completely unambiguous and it is a threatening and hostile design the US is unfurling in the context of its frontline ally in the war on terror. **F****or the US, it is of no significance that this country’s leader has put his life on the line for the erroneous military-centric strategy the US continues to dictate in the war against terror; or that some innocent citizens of Pakistan have paid with their lives for this cause, while others have had their kith and kin disappear to feed America’s insatiable appetite for punishing “Muslim extremists”. **

** The more Pakistan and its leadership have sacrificed in order to deliver Al Qaeda to the US and be the most committed ally in the war against terror, the more abuse has been hurled at it from the US – both the political elites and the media – and its Afghan puppet, Hamid Karzai.** After all, surrounded by foreign forces it is hard to assume that Karzai’s diatribe against Pakistan has come without the acquiescence, if not actual goading, of the Americans.

** Through all this, Pakistan has shown an overly tolerant attitude. However, now it is abundantly clear that there is a larger plan to target the only Muslim nuclear state in terms of its strategic assets.** A clear pattern can be discerned by all but those who deliberately want to keep their blinkers on. Post-9/11, there has been an attempt to undermine the Pakistani state and society. We had the whole A.Q. Khan affair and despite our going the extra mile by penalising him, handing over old centrifuges to the IAEA and going public with all our export controls and National Command Authority, for the US the nuclear issue is a constant stick with which to beat Pakistan ad nauseam. Conveniently, India’s damaging proliferation record is forgotten despite repeated publications in the press.

Add to the proliferation issue the publication of an article in the US Armed Forces Journal outlining a proposal to break up strong Muslim states like Pakistan, and one should have seen where the US was headed vis-a-vis Pakistan. And alongside, there was the constant refrain that Islamabad can do more in terms of the war on terror. Thus we saw the US ingress into Pakistani territory bombing civilians while claiming to be targeting the Al Qaeda leadership. With a resurgent resistance from a growing Pashtun force, the US, NATO and the Karzai government have found it convenient to lay the blame on Pakistan for their failures, instead of reassessing their own erroneous strategies and tactics.

Now the US has effectively moved to threaten Pakistan directly. In the second week of January, the Democrats in the House of Representatives put forward a bill providing recommendations for the implementation of the recommendations presented by the 9/11 Commission. Without following procedural niceties, the bill was passed by the House on January 12. The section on Pakistan (1442) effectively takes Pakistan-US relations back to the Pressler days with limitations placed on US security assistance to Pakistan, which would now require a Presidential waiver or certification regarding certain conditionalities relating to Pakistan. Amongst the conditionalities, the President would have to certify that the Government of Pakistan was preventing the Taliban from operating in “areas under its sovereign control” including specifically Chaman, Quetta, FATA and the NWFP.** One can see how some fifth columnists among us having been feeding the US often concocted information that they feel the US wants to hear.**

Nor is this all. The US president has to still certify, even in the wake of the NPT-breaking India-US nuclear deal, that Pakistan is curbing the proliferation of nuclear weapons technology. Yet more conditionalities include Pakistan dealing effectively with “Islamic extremism” and setting up “secular public schools”. So the US effectively wants Pakistan to suppress its Islamic identity or else be denied a US presidential certification or waiver for American assistance.

What is interesting is that the language used in this bill is similar to the language used by John Negroponte, now Condoleezza Rice’s deputy, in testimony that he gave before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence on Jan. 11. His accusation that Pakistan is a “major source of Islamic extremism” and a safe haven for Taliban and “the home for some top terrorist leaders” seems to have been almost lifted from the text of the bill passed by the House.

But he puts the US threat most clearly when he states that: “Eliminating the safe haven that the Taliban and other extremists have found in Pakistan’s tribal areas is not sufficient to end the insurgency in Afghanistan but it is necessary.” And who will do this eliminating? Obviously this is a statement of intent by the US to ingress militarily into Pakistan through the border with Afghanistan. There is no ambiguity in this formulation of the threat since arrogance tends to have an element of clarity to it.

The threat is further heightened because as in the bill, Negroponte also raised the proliferation issue alongside the “extremists” problem. He declared that “Pakistan was a major source of nuclear proliferation until our efforts disrupted the A.Q. Khan’s network”. So he is building a raison d’etre that since it was the US which intervened in Pakistan to deal the blow to the A.Q. Khan network, it could do so again. As he put it: “We are watching several states for nuclear weapons aspirations, in part because of reporting of past contact with A.Q. Khan and his network when it was active.” Again, the language is similar to the conditionality in the bill which says: “Pakistan’s maintenance of a network for the proliferation of nuclear and missile technologies would be inconsistent with Pakistan being considered an ally of the US.” Who in Pakistan thought this issue would go away if we adopted an overzealous confessional approach? And no word on the known Indian links to nuclear programmes of Iran and Saddam.

** In fact, on India it is clear that present US policy-makers approve of Indian interventions in other South Asian states. **Very approvingly, Negroponte declares that “New Delhi seeks to play a role in fostering democracy in the region, especially in Nepal and Bangladesh and will continue to be a reliable ally against global terrorism.” And we thought we were that ally!

The point is that by now we should accept that the US intent towards us is threatening and overall negative. And there is a pattern to it all -– the bill, followed by the Negroponte statement and then by Major-General Benjamin Freakley’s accusations against Pakistan from Kabul -– all coincide thereby playing to a certain strategy. But the reality is that the US does need us in the war against terror in Afghanistan so we have leverage on that count for the moment. Why are we then not using it?

At what stage of the US threat’s materialisation will we begin to use our counter-leverage? Have we become so overwhelmed by a psychological confidence deficit that we cannot take such a step? If that is the case, then the threatening design laid out in various US analyses that preceded the Congressional bill, the bill itself and John Negroponte’s statement against Pakistan, will begin to unfold.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=39130

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Pakistan isnt protecting Taliban, though there are Taliban elements in Pakistan which the Army is getting rid of. It will never be able to completely get rid of them and Musharraf knows this. But here’s a quote from a US Army general on Pakistan’s role

“The Post reporter quotes Lt Gen David Richards, the outgoing NATO commander in Kabul, who said in an interview recently, “The Pakistan government does not wish to see the Taliban in power here. They are determined to bear down on the insurgency. But when they help us, they get no credit for it. No one says thank you.”
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\01\22\story_22-1-2007_pg7_20

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

If strategic depth in Afghanistan is in Pak long term interest, any move is justified. States are not bound by morality.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

That is after the fact after the retard invaded Eyraq.. there was nothing else to report.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

[quote=roadrunner]

They are determined to bear down on the insurgency. But when they help us, they get no credit for it. No one says thank you."
[

The ‘credit’ totals billions of dollars that have flowed since 9/11, as well as keeping this govt in power, no bigger ‘credit’ could be given.](“http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\01\22\story_22-1-2007_pg7_20”)

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

The 'credit' totals billions of dollars that have flowed since 9/11, as well as keeping this govt in power, no bigger 'credit' could be given.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Considering the opposition is so screwed up in Pakistan, do you really think the Musharaf govt needs America to keep his govt in power? Who in Pakistan is even a remote threat to the Army?

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

absolutely, without 9/11 the economic and political situation would be completely different, and he would have been gone long ago

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?


Then who knows if NYT and WT are getting this dole from govt again? that makes them untrustworthy to me.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

A suicide car bomber attacked a military convoy in northwestern Pakistan, killing himself and at least four soldiers, an intelligence official said, raising fears of renewed fighting in volatile tribal regions.

The attack happened near the Kajori checkpoint on the outskirts of Miran Shah, the main town in North Waziristan, where the government, pro-Taliban militants and tribal elders signed a peace deal last year to end violence there, the official said.

An army official in the region confirmed that the bombing was a suicide attack, saying it also wounded at least six soldiers, two of them seriously. The intelligence official, however, said 16 were wounded.

Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to media.

The intelligence official said the attacker had parked his bomb-laden car on the side of the road and detonated it when a patrol convoy passed by, damaging three pickup trucks. He called the attack “an act of terrorism.”

No one claimed responsibility for the attack, which came after tribal militant leader Baitullah Mehsud in neighboring South Waziristan vowed to target Pakistani security forces to avenge a military raid last week on a suspected al-Qaida hide-out. The raid killed at least eight people and wounded 10 others.

The violence is likely to strain the peace deal signed in North Waziristan in September. http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2812233

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

yeah but he ‘added’ that statement. as if it was not an issue of primary importance. He needs to get his house in order, we all have read about the number of broder checkpoints afghanistan maintains which s minimal compared to what Pakistan has.

so now it has become certain pakistani circles rathr than pakistan at large.

I guess his leash got pulled a little.

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

And then they found 'miss. democracy'

Re: Why does Pakistan still support Taliban?

Yeah, but who would have enough power to oust Musharaf from power? Outside of an internal military coup, no one in the current opposition establishment has enough support to put any real pressure on the govt.