Why do you not pray?

Re: Why do you not pray?

Peace Theorist

I actually made several arguments, but skipped presenting them in formal ways for brevity.

First of all let me clarify Atheism is NOT organised it is the polar opposite of organisation ... It is disorder.

Now here are my premises for saying such a thing:

Organisation seeks to establish common ground in rules, code of conduct and sense of limit. Disorganisation seeks to oppose these ... When religion can achieve that in a Divine God ... The Criteria of right and wrong is defined by that Entity and all under that order must conform, bringing everyone on the same page.

Another piece to to support myself is that atheists themselves boast about there being no organised approach to atheism.

In an arena where criteria for right and wrong is left with the individual to carry ... Then they will inevitably create a system around themselves where they are in the right ... It will be selfish. Or if not then they will be easily inclined to make exceptions as there is no one governing them ... Again selfish.

This creates a sphere of competing individuals ... Survival of the fittest kicks in ... This becomes material and hence materialistic ... Which is consumeristic. Now you equating atheism with consumerism is absurd ... If that is so ... Let's look for examples of atheists who are not consumeristic and are actively demonstrating that their atheism is leading them to lead lives that is one of prudence and self restraint. Can we find an example?

Atheism is slavery from person to person for the benefit of people ... Religion ... True religion is slavery to God. Consumerism is slavery to ones own desires.

Why? In survival of fittest the system demands that those who manage to be "more equal than others" put measures in place to ensure they remain on top ... That is what is happening.

Praying to God has many reasons ... The most important reason is not for what He might do to us, or for what we might get from Him ... But rather from what He has already given us ... The primary point of worship is to recognise His already huge favour to us for the life He has given us.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Then why the most altruistic countries are the ones with rising Atheism? And the most chaotic countries are the most religious ones! That in itself defies all your arguments against Atheism being disorderly. If that is disorder, then I welcome it. :)

Re: Why do you not pray?

@redvelvet sister ...

What you said above made me think ... My Shaykh said that ... The Arabs used to question about God ... and ask who is this who we need to pray to? And the answer given to them was ... Have you ever been on a fishing trip when you thought that that was the end and your ship would break. they said yes ... Then it was asked from them did you have any hope to survive? They said yes ... So then it was asked from them ... In Whom?

Humans make promises with God, but then when out of the fear and in comfort we quickly forget ... Forget not only the feeling of being helpless before God, but for even making a dashing hope for survival to a God that we deny most of our conscious time. That is why calamity and danger is important because it wakes the sleeping soul in to a sense of need for God.

so the Islamic message is simple ... We are merely calling to that God in whom they already place their hopes when no other hope is available to them.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Might I add it was yourself and atheists here and away from here who constantly argue that atheism is not organised. I have merely agreed with them. We differ because for me ... Organisation by Religion is a good thing ... One criterion in employment is to be an organised person. Why should that good thing be a bad thing when it comes to religion?

Is there a connection between altruism and atheism? I don't think there is ... Atheism can only rise in a place that is relatively not atheistic ... And there is no evidence to suggest that there is a connection between the two trends ... The better data to look at is to see whether the actual donations are being given by atheists or religious people? And then to look at why ... What is their motivation? For religious people it is easy ... We have faith in receiving justice and reward ... But what is the motivator for atheists?

Re: Why do you not pray?

Really? So if something is not organized, it must be disorderly? Clever.

I am asking you if atheism and altruism are not linked then why do we see the most peaceful countries becoming more nonreligious. I don't know the connection. Maybe there is a sense of responsibility to humanity rather than saving oneself from hell fire by praying 5 times a day while ignoring everything else? Who knows!

Re: Why do you not pray?

I'd say the rise in non-religiousness is more connected to the fact that people don't want to be told what to do rather than being altruistic. I don't think that it has anything to do with a sense of responsibility to humanity, or anything else for that matter.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Again, the most altruistic countries have a growing number of nonreligious people. For whatever reason, the more a country becomes secular in approach and people become nonreligious, the more crime rates go down and there is less corruption. This has been a trend and there are many examples. I am not making it up. Th Global peaceful index speaks for itself

Re: Why do you not pray?

I pray, but I don’t pray in a foreign language, or going into certain postures, or facing certain direction while praying.. I pray whenever I want, sitting, laying, sometimes even while watching TV. So far, 99% of my prayers have been answered and I am truly blessed. So I must be doing something right!:halo::slight_smile: #blessedmurtid](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=blessedmurtid)

Re: Why do you not pray?

Those who believe in nothing ... Believe in anything.

Re: Why do you not pray?

^and those who believe in one thing do not believe in anything else. Does it sound accurate? No right? Then stop assuming.

Re: Why do you not pray?

praying in itself is subjecting the du'aa to the highest divine authority. you can't pray to some abstract god/gods.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Theorist, give me some examples of the altruistic and peaceful countries. I am not mocking you, just curious as to which ones.

Re: Why do you not pray?

those who don't believe in your religion or any religion?
one doesn't need to believe in any one particular religion to believe in God or to pray. plenty of people pray, are spiritual, but don't belong to a particular religion.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Google Global peaceful index. Here is 2013 GPI report.
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/pdf/gpi/2013_Global_Peace_Index_Report.pdf

Re: Why do you not pray?

Here is the 2012 report on Global Index of Religiousity and Atheism.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Seems like the least religious countries are most peaceful. surprise surprise.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Funny list indeed. Story is this simple. White country with big gun are only peace full when things are working for them.
Most of those countries among first 18 have colonized parts of the worlds just to steal their resources. Amreekan on record have said that they would level middle east if the have to get to oil.

Are we supposed to have short memory so atheists can make their point in peace?

Re: Why do you not pray?

FYI, war mongering Americans are generally religious ones. the liberal atheists are the hippies who want peace, love and weed and are always doing ANTI-war protests. its the bible belt and conservatives who love war in America.
all the invasions and colonization in the past by white people, were mainly Christians, NOT atheists.

Re: Why do you not pray?

any comment on colonizing ?

also if rich countries causing issue in poor countries.... that make poor country "vulnerable" rather then peace hating.

Re: Why do you not pray?

Most of it was done by religious folks, mainly christians/catholics. so why are you blaming atheists?