Re: Why do you not pray?
No twists please.
You stated"Seems like the least religious countries are most peaceful. surprise "
I said.. "non-peaceful" coutures are rather vulnerable..
Re: Why do you not pray?
No twists please. You stated"Seems like the least religious countries are most peaceful. surprise "
I said.. "non-peaceful" coutures are rather vulnerable..
no twists at all. YOU mentioned amreekans want to level off middle east and want to invade them for oil. please tell me which americans want that? the atheists or the christian conservatives?
Re: Why do you not pray?
Ok you won. I can not control discussion...
Religious Americans!!
Now go wild.
Re: Why do you not pray?
^and those who believe in one thing do not believe in anything else. Does it sound accurate? No right? Then stop assuming.
Yes it does ...
Re: Why do you not pray?
I was looking at the criteria by which this is measuring “peace” and I disagree with much of the methods and there are some major failures in this.
First of all … There was no information on altruism in this report … please provide the page reference for altruism figures and how they measure that.
I was surprised to see that not a single mention was given over the “drug usage” and “alcoholism” and “suicide rates” - which for me are directly related to the state of peace of people - so they are less inclined to absorb themselves in escapism and distraction. Japan ranks highly in this reports “peace” - but those people are internally sick and spend most of their lives escaping from the reality of it.
Also, this report seems to treat inactivity as being equivalent to peace … But there are regimes so in control that the people are afraid to lift a finger - that does not make them peaceful also other states are are better at distracting their populations. Another problem with this report is that views and concludes “material wealth to be a factor for peacefulness”
The real issue is dreaming … if you give someone a dream and do not provide them the means to realise that dream then you get unrest … If however, you tell your own people to grateful while give them relatively good facilities then they will be more at peace.
Another problem with this report is that it blames the condition of the country on the country … It has side-stepped the fact that many of the “peace” countries are the ones providing the weapons and creating the conditions where the “not so peaceful” countries start to war … terrorism to this day is being fuelled with weapons from the West.
Also I do not see that simple charity giving is a good measure for peace - I have heard that much of the charity raised in the West is from Muslims anyway … governments also give aid - but they have strings attached … True altruism is to give away for the needs of others when the amount is not surplus but also within the donors needs …
Re: Why do you not pray?
no twists at all. YOU mentioned amreekans want to level off middle east and want to invade them for oil. please tell me which americans want that? the atheists or the christian conservatives?
Both - The right-wingers are just more sincere about it ...
Re: Why do you not pray?
Funny list indeed. Story is this simple. White country with big gun are only peace full when things are working for them. Most of those countries among first 18 have colonized parts of the worlds just to steal their resources. Amreekan on record have said that they would level middle east if the have to get to oil.
Are we supposed to have short memory so atheists can make their point in peace?
Except the USA is actually 99 on the list..I could see your point however.
Re: Why do you not pray?
I was looking at the criteria by which this is measuring "peace" and I disagree with much of the methods and there are some major failures in this.
First of all ... There was no information on altruism in this report ... please provide the page reference for altruism figures and how they measure that.
I was surprised to see that not a single mention was given over the "drug usage" and "alcoholism" and "suicide rates" - which for me are directly related to the state of peace of people - so they are less inclined to absorb themselves in escapism and distraction. Japan ranks highly in this reports "peace" - but those people are internally sick and spend most of their lives escaping from the reality of it.
Also, this report seems to treat inactivity as being equivalent to peace ... But there are regimes so in control that the people are afraid to lift a finger - that does not make them peaceful also other states are are better at distracting their populations. Another problem with this report is that views and concludes "material wealth to be a factor for peacefulness"
The real issue is dreaming ... if you give someone a dream and do not provide them the means to realise that dream then you get unrest ... If however, you tell your own people to grateful while give them relatively good facilities then they will be more at peace.
Another problem with this report is that it blames the condition of the country on the country ... It has side-stepped the fact that many of the "peace" countries are the ones providing the weapons and creating the conditions where the "not so peaceful" countries start to war ... terrorism to this day is being fuelled with weapons from the West.
Also I do not see that simple charity giving is a good measure for peace - I have heard that much of the charity raised in the West is from Muslims anyway ... governments also give aid - but they have strings attached ... True altruism is to give away for the needs of others when the amount is not surplus but also within the donors needs ...
well, if you disagree with the methodology then the list is pointless. Anyway, I do agree somewhat about more peaceful countries being involved in some fishy activities. They have a hand in creating the chaos in the not so peaceful countries. Why do you say about Japan what you said?
Re: Why do you not pray?
when a person belonging to religion does something wrong or evil, we are told not to blame religion for it. but when atheist/non-religious folks do anything wrong, it's automatically blamed on atheism or lack of religion... wonder why that is.
Re: Why do you not pray?
I read the atheism report also ... Somewhat questionable ... However, based on the reports I find no correlation between increasing atheistic countries and altruism so far ... in principle it defies their stance.
Now looking at page 14 there is a chart of income per capita vs religiosity ... generally the trend that they are trying to show is that the poorer people are more religious ... so they might be trying to insinuate that to be richer you need to less religious. Qatar for example will be the highest on this scale in income but it does not feature and also will be quite religious.
Another problem I see is that the vast majority of the world is religious and the vast majority of the world have under paid people ... the countries that are counter balancing them are richer and have more power to ensure they remain that way. Resources are mostly found in these religious countries but are benefiting the non-religious countries more ...
More labour concerns are with places like China regarding working conditions and suicide rates or attempts ... which are not shown in either of the two reports.
Re: Why do you not pray?
I had a quick look at it as well as the other link you provided. I saw no connection made between religion and lack of peace. Also, as per the second link it seems that they’re only basing their stats on how many people describe themselves as religious or not.
So that doesn’t really show a connection between atheism and altruism. From what I’ve seen growing up in Canada, the level of religiousness among Muslims has increased over the years. This has not been linked with increasing levels of trouble and has not had any adverse effect on the level of peace here. Muslims have been targeted by politicians for their own ends but there hasn’t been any decrease in peace due to their becoming more practicing.
Re: Why do you not pray?
Thank you Theorist for a fair response … Japanese and many of these “peaceful” European countries are not fighting with their governments not because of peace - but because of depression.
WHO/Europe | Data and statistics
Japan has a suicide problem:
Suicide in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In my opinion suicide is directly prevented by a belief in an afterlife that would judge us. Japanese men are absorbing themselves in virtual relationships.
Meet The World’s Most Loving Girlfriends – Who Also Happen To Be Video Games
Japanese Man Marries Videogame Girlfriend | The Escapist
Is this peace? I don’t think it is …
Religion is a code for being good - thou shalt not kill, not steal, etc … If that is not there … then what we only have are laws to prevent these things … if the consequence of not being caught is not there - the religious person would be afraid of God … if a person has no reason to be ethical - why would they stop themselves from benefiting?
Even those who follow a religion and do crimes - in my opinion they are irreligious - for not following their CODE. However, there is a real issue of those who interpret their code in certain ways to support and justify their own violent tendencies … and they remain to be a problem.
Re: Why do you not pray?
If I saw a class of 20 children, some of the thinner, smaller and more feeble ones crying and holding their limbs in pain ... some of them fighting with each other ... but none of them going anywhere near this chubby boy who has a smile on his face, sitting at a distance with a catapult in his hand ... I would think 'what is chubby boy up to?'
I would not interpret his smile and gluttony as being signs of his "peace" - but a cover and facade of an internally sick person, one who thrives on the despair of others.
Re: Why do you not pray?
Religion is a code for being good - thou shalt not kill, not steal, etc ... If that is not there ... then what we only have are laws to prevent these things ... if the consequence of not being caught is not there - the religious person would be afraid of God ... if a person has no reason to be ethical - why would they stop themselves from benefiting?
Even those who follow a religion and do crimes - in my opinion they are irreligious - for not following their CODE. However, there is a real issue of those who interpret their code in certain ways to support and justify their own violent tendencies ... and they remain to be a problem.
majority of atheists/nonbelievers donot go around killing and stealing either despite of not believing in God. many people have basic compassion and humanity without the fear of hell. I donot believe that one must have fear of God as the only reason to be good or kind to others. whether someone believes in religion or not, good and bad qualities exists in both types of people. atheism or lack of religion does not cause lack of peace.
Re: Why do you not pray?
majority of atheists/nonbelievers donot go around killing and stealing either despite of not believing in God. many people have basic compassion and humanity without the fear of hell. I donot believe that one must have fear of God as the only reason to be good or kind to others. whether someone believes in religion or not, good and bad qualities exists in both types of people. atheism or lack of religion does not cause lack of peace.
Peace bella88
Again ... my post that you quoted already accounts for this ... as I said ... "then what we have are only laws to prevent these things" ...
When a person chooses to do a crime they do so on the premise that nothing governs them - no law no religious ideal.
If atheists choose to follow the law - they do so out of the consequence of being caught or because they have no urge to do the deed. They don't have the extra safety net that stops them from doing a crime out of a sense of duty to their faith, despite wanting to benefit from that crime.
Religion cannot be blamed like no religion can ... Because the major religions positively enforce not killing and not thieving. Having no religion cannot positively enforce anything.
Peace if meant external silence then I agree with your last statement ... but if peace is meant in the sense of inner peace and tranquility then I am sure that this is wrong ... Even those man-made religions developed because they needed to create a mechanism for instilling peace within people.
Re: Why do you not pray?
Here you have switched to a completely different meaning of peace! Whatever the Japanese are doing to themselves in their homes does not harm another person outside of it so that is what’s being measured as peaceful. Another issue is the lack or reporting in developing countries. I am very sure of the records we do have of suicides in japan, but do we really know the number of suicides that actually happen in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan? No, we don’t. They are not accounted for. Developed countries hold a better record of these events, that’s all.
Now as to why I think religion plays a role in keeping peace or destroying it, I believe the lack of religion is just one less thing to worry about for people. It cuts down many crimes simply because people don’t really care about religions in the least religious countries of the world. Again, there is no denying that the least religious countries have the least number of crimes even on the state level where country governments don’t play a big role. Religion clearly causes a great divide in people, which even on local level raises the crime rate.
Re: Why do you not pray?
Atheism is the inherent call for disorder ... By saying that there is no God, then they are also saying that all suggestions of good and evil are subjective, which should then mean that everyone for himself ... Because when there is no commonality then there is selfishness ... Atheism is a mechanism of consumerism ... It is worse than a fairy tale .... It is a means to subdue the people in to slavery of other people and slavery to their own desires.
Atheism, again, is a position on a single issue; the existence of a deity. It's not a political movement, it's not an organization, it's not an ideology, it's not a world view, and it's not a call for anything. You'll find atheists that proscribe and subscribe to all sorts of things.
Second, it's ludicrous to suggest that the notion of good and evil aren't subjective. I believe any killing is evil, absolutely! I bet your preferred religion condones capital punishment! Is that evil?
Third, if a deity is your basis for good and evil, how do you judge what is good and what is evil? Does the deity only do good? If that's the case, then the notion of good is outside the deity and the deity isn't needed. Or, is it good because the deity says so? If the latter is case, then if the deity says to rape and murder does that become good?
Peace bella88
Again ... my post that you quoted already accounts for this ... as I said ... "then what we have are only laws to prevent these things" ...
When a person chooses to do a crime they do so on the premise that nothing governs them - no law no religious ideal.
If atheists choose to follow the law - they do so out of the consequence of being caught or because they have no urge to do the deed. They don't have the extra safety net that stops them from doing a crime out of a sense of duty to their faith, despite wanting to benefit from that crime.
Religion cannot be blamed like no religion can ... Because the major religions positively enforce not killing and not thieving. Having no religion cannot positively enforce anything.
Peace if meant external silence then I agree with your last statement ... but if peace is meant in the sense of inner peace and tranquility then I am sure that this is wrong ... Even those man-made religions developed because they needed to create a mechanism for instilling peace within people.
This is an absolutely unsettling thought! If you didn't have religion, you would be stealing and killing? So, the only reason you're not, by your own argument, is because you think there is a higher power? That's a scary thought! It's not religion you need, then!
I follow the law because I choose to! Because I want to live in a society that's governed by objectivity and equality. I don't steal, or kill, or cheat, not because of a fear of laws...but because it is inherent within me not to. I treat people well because I try to lead from example; I treat them the way I wanted to be treated.
Your point about people commit crimes on the premise that nothing governs them is completely illogical. Are you saying that people who steal don't know they are stealing and that there are laws against it? Are there sane people that don't think murder is against the law? Well...if religion is your justification for right and wrong..then anything goes!
Oh, by the way...when someone does something in the name of religion, then the religion is to blame! Let me guess...the no true Scotsman argument.....
Re: Why do you not pray?
Atheism, again, is a position on a single issue; the existence of a deity. It's not a political movement, it's not an organization, it's not an ideology, it's not a world view, and it's not a call for anything. You'll find atheists that proscribe and subscribe to all sorts of things.
Second, it's ludicrous to suggest that the notion of good and evil aren't subjective. I believe any killing is evil, absolutely! I bet your preferred religion condones capital punishment! Is that evil?
Third, if a deity is your basis for good and evil, how do you judge what is good and what is evil? Does the deity only do good? If that's the case, then the notion of good is outside the deity and the deity isn't needed. Or, is it good because the deity says so? If the latter is case, then if the deity says to rape and murder does that become good?
This is an absolutely unsettling thought! If you didn't have religion, you would be stealing and killing? So, the only reason you're not, by your own argument, is because you think there is a higher power? That's a scary thought! It's not religion you need, then!
I follow the law because I choose to! Because I want to live in a society that's governed by objectivity and equality. I don't steal, or kill, or cheat, not because of a fear of laws...but because it is inherent within me not to. I treat people well because I try to lead from example; I treat them the way I wanted to be treated.
Your point about people commit crimes on the premise that nothing governs them is completely illogical. Are you saying that people who steal don't know they are stealing and that there are laws against it? Are there sane people that don't think murder is against the law? Well...if religion is your justification for right and wrong..then anything goes!
Oh, by the way...when someone does something in the name of religion, then the religion is to blame! Let me guess...the no true Scotsman argument.....
Peace kprasad
That is an interesting concept ... No killing, no stealing and no cheating is inherent in you ...
The animal kingdom that evolved from survival being from the fittest would disagree with you ... It would call your desire to be fair and just a malfunction ...
But you are testimony that there is a higher cause than self interest ... Where are your limits in your goodness? When do they start to become burdens and cumbersome? Some would say when it comes to making true sacrifices ... Helping others when it harms oneself to do so ... That requires a conviction that is beyond what atheists could rationally muster.
Re: Why do you not pray?
altruism is easily explaining via evolution. there are many animals that live in social groups - right from bees and ants upto higher primates. please read more about this, psyah. its fact, not fables.
Re: Why do you not pray?
Congrats on totally derailing the OP’s good intentions.
:smh: