[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
I do.
My answer: Coz my Abba said so.
[/QUOTE]
:D Whatever works for you kid....
damnit this threads resurrected!
now i'll be pestering myself to write that promised essay on 'why raza believes'
and munni..i think you had him cornered there. IMHO hes looking for idiotic replies, more reasons to give him that feeling of superiority he mentioned ages ago. since I said imho, you have no reason to be mad chandi. :D. just speculation..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
damnit this threads resurrected!
now i'll be pestering myself to write that promised essay on 'why raza believes'
and munni..i think you had him cornered there. IMHO hes looking for idiotic replies, more reasons to give him that feeling of superiority he mentioned ages ago. since I said imho, you have no reason to be mad chandi. :D. just speculation..
[/QUOTE]
I am forced to believe the same.....
Oh, I just remembered an interesting logic table that shows why it is better to believe than not to...
There are two possibilities after you die:
You find out that there is no God The believer and the non-believer will be equally well off, since it wouldn't matter what you did in your previous life.
You find out that there actually is a God In that case the non-believers are doomed. They will have to answer to God for why they denied him and all that. The believers still end up well, since they had spent there lives accordingly.
So, what do you think is more wise? :) The believers are safe in either case.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chandigarh: *
And the difference is?
[/QUOTE]
The man made idols built with clay you worship are called in english 'god' ... as per your definition...
while God is Allah and is creater of every thing, ... and if doesn't HE want... you can not inhale yr next breath!
Well... *to all My Muslim members here *...these folks are here for behas baray behas...as Munni said they just wanna listen 'there is no god' ... well I would say leave them alone ... cuz they can not be convince if Allah don't want them to be convince...and only once there is Allah's will (which I wish)!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ramyssysIX: *
Oh, I just remembered an interesting logic table that shows why it is better to believe than not to...
There are two possibilities after you die:
You find out that there is no God The believer and the non-believer will be equally well off, since it wouldn't matter what you did in your previous life.
You find out that there actually is a God In that case the non-believers are doomed. They will have to answer to God for why they denied him and all that. The believers still end up well, since they had spent there lives accordingly.
So, what do you think is more wise? :) The believers are safe in either case.
[/QUOTE]
If Im not mistaken this is the argument offered by Hazrat Ali in nahj..
also later came to be known as Leibnitz's gamble..
Its not doubt is excellent theroy…
thans to Ramysys 
[QUOTE]
The man made idols built with clay you worship are called in english 'god' ... as per your definition...
while God is Allah and is creater of every thing, ... and if doesn't HE want... you can not inhale yr next breath!
[/QUOTE]
Than why does the all mighty Allah allow the suffering of muslims and from the most incompetent, primitive and backwards peoples on earth, the kaffirs?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *
Than why does the all mighty Allah allow the suffering of muslims and from the most incompetent, primitive and backwards peoples on earth, the kaffirs?
[/QUOTE]
you can think they are suffering...but our believe is...if A muslim dies with a Kafir...he/she goes to heaven ...besides...what you call suffering we call it Jihaad...get it!
and we are happy with it
'aap iss ki chinta na karain'
...
Chadigarh,
You started out this thread by explaining that your lack of faith in God comes by way of your trust in science?
Dr. E. Conklin, a Biology professor at Princeton University has this "scientific" view, one that I myself, am inclined to believe -
"The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the Unabridged Dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing factory."
If you are satisfied with your decision not to believe in God, then why so much curiosity about the reasons behind faith?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Faith in God is a matter of Faith. Faith is feeling. Feeling inside your own heart is only your personal matter. So neither you should try to preach it nor you should try to impose it upon others. Because it is only your personal matter.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry
Not trying to impose my views on you, though maybe my words sounded that way. Only sharing. I think the topic was "Why do you believe?"
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waiting for your reply.
the discussion was just getting better............
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *
Thanks for your reply
Before we proceed i wanted to ask you regarding the comment you made, which was,
The cause of so many Hello's is definately only the one in this example. But I have doubts in applicability of same conclusion to all the universal problems
Why do you have doubts? Are we not applying the cause and effect principle which is decisive?
Also is there a factual example where you can show me where there is an unlimited amount of causes and where there is no first cause?
Anybody who uses there senses to observe the world around us will always see this universal law of cause and effect.
But it would be interesting to hear your viewpoint
M.Ali
[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *
Thanks for your reply
Before we proceed i wanted to ask you regarding the comment you made, which was,
The cause of so many Hello's is definately only the one in this example. But I have doubts in applicability of same conclusion to all the universal problems
Why do you have doubts? Are we not applying the cause and effect principle which is decisive?
Also is there a factual example where you can show me where there is an unlimited amount of causes and where there is no first cause?
Anybody who uses there senses to observe the world around us will always see this universal law of cause and effect.
But it would be interesting to hear your viewpoint
M.Ali
[/QUOTE]
There may be other examples for which the cause may appear to be only one but actually there may be more than one causes. I am not going in its details. I am ready to suppose that cause of this Universe is only the one. Now you have the base to put your core arguments.
Waiting...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Sorry
Not trying to impose my views on you, though maybe my words sounded that way. Only sharing. I think the topic was "Why do you believe?"
[/QUOTE]
Actually my wordings were not specifically for you. I pointed towards "Muslim Believers". To impose their beliefs upon others is included in "Muslim's Beliefs".
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
There may be other examples for which the cause may appear to be only one but actually there may be more than one causes. I am not going in its details. I am ready to suppose that cause of this Universe is only the one. Now you have the base to put your core arguments.
Waiting...
[/QUOTE]
I would really like to move the discussion forward, but before I do, I would like for you to expand on your examples from reality, where there is no starting point or a cause behind an effect.
The reason why I insist that you should mention your examples, is because I want to build my core arguments on a solid foundation, not on a foundation that you agreed upon for the sake of moving the discussion forward.
Also I want you to realise by yourself, that in reality, no one can point to things which do not have a cause (starting point).
Waiting for you to reply
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *
I would really like to move the discussion forward, but before I do, I would like for you to expand on your examples from reality, where there is no starting point or a cause behind an effect.
The reason why I insist that you should mention your examples, is because I want to build my core arguments on a solid foundation, not on a foundation that you agreed upon for the sake of moving the discussion forward.
Also I want you to realise by yourself, that in reality, no one can point to things which do not have a cause (starting point).
Waiting for you to reply
[/QUOTE]
Read the Philosophy of David Hume, who has completely denied the Cause and Effect Principle with Proof. According to him, we only can use the principle of cause and effect in our daily life matters just as a matter of ease. Otherwise, he has completely denied cause and effect principle to be a real principle. He has detailed proofs in this connection. You yourself have to consult his writings for details.
However, as a matter of ease in this discussion, I accept the applicability of cause and effect principle. I am also ready to assume that the cause of this Universe is one. Now you should put your core arguments.
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Read the Philosophy of David Hume, who has completely denied the Cause and Effect Principle with Proof. According to him, we only can use the principle of cause and effect in our daily life matters just as a matter of ease. Otherwise, he has completely denied cause and effect principle to be a real principle. He has detailed proofs in this connection. You yourself have to consult his writings for details.
However, as a matter of ease in this discussion, I accept the applicability of cause and effect principle. I am also ready to assume that the cause of this Universe is one. Now you should put your core arguments.
[/QUOTE]
Very scientific discussion which AAG cannot contribute to. I cannot quote philosophers opinion.
But maybe my story should be filed under mystery.
A few days after my little boy died I was outdoors with my sister. There was a sweet sweet scent in the air and a soft wind. Mind you, this is the end of January. Winter. Tree's were empty of leaves. Ground was straw colored. No greenery. I keep smelling flowers. Lilacs. All day.
Suddenly a a feeling like this sweet breeze went thru my body and in my thinking and feeling that sweetness was my son's soul going through my body. Hard to explain and not believable to skeptics, but true. It happend to me.
I kept it to myself for a few days. Then I told my mother-in-law. She told me the story gave her the chills. Her husband, my father-in-law was checking the oil under the hood of his car and the same thing happend to him. He smelled lilacs and flowers while checking under the hood of his car, as far away from flowers as a person could be, not to mention the fact that it was mid-winter in the midwest.
To this day. Every January 22nd I smell lilacs and to me is a sign that my little boy is allright.
When at times I have felt alone, or abandoned, angry and tempted into questioning the existence of God, I remember the lilacs and that yearly reminder tells me that God is. A sign that encourages me to believe, and not the only one I have experienced.
I believe in God because God exist. I am a science whizz as well, the more i read the stronger my belief gets.
As to basic force, yaar who is forcing you here? Just quit your critcism, alot of stereotypical views you hold, you manage to offend every muslim. Seems like you have a habit of imposing your idealogy.
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AvgAmericanGirl:
Yes religion after all have a kind of phsychological hope. Philosophy and science, both are very cruel. I can wish your God should exist so that you may have hope that your beloved son is safe and sound. Please do not try to apply cruel arguments of philosophy to your God. Because You have the God who is loving, caring and an ulimate hope for you.
I am only fighting against people who have God, who teaches violence, who teaches not to make friends among other nations. Who is not the ultimate hope BUT IS AN ULTIMATE FEAR. Who has made Hell for every person who is not a true muslim. Who want us to worship him without knowing him. Who insists on a rigid, unflexible, unchangeable and not suitable social system for human kind.