… you go boy !!
Belief in God is a matter of faith.
Faith is a feeliing.
A feeling inside your heart.
A warmth you feel when you pray.
God is the reality and so is the faith on God
Faith on God is as tangible as anything
Its the difference between the right and the wrong
The distance between heaven and hell
The demarkation between the good and the evil
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Belief in God is a matter of faith.
Faith is a feeliing.
A feeling inside your heart.
A warmth you feel when you pray.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Belief in God is a matter of faith.
Faith is a feeliing.
A feeling inside your heart.
A warmth you feel when you pray.
[/QUOTE]
Faith in God is a matter of Faith. Faith is feeling. Feeling inside your own heart is only your personal matter. So neither you should try to preach it nor you should try to impose it upon others. Because it is only your personal matter.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ramyssysIX: *
God is **the* reality and so is the faith on God
Faith on God is as tangible as anything
Its the difference between the right and the wrong
The distance between heaven and hell
The demarkation between the good and the evil
[/QUOTE]
All these are only the claims. They have nothing to do with the reality.
Claims without proof have no importance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do you believe?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *
thanks again, I apologise for responding late as my internet connection had problems.
Before I put forward my view and questions, I have to say that this discussion has been very productive and emotions havent dominated it and I thankyou for your participation.
Ok, so you and I both agree that when discussing the cause of the universe we need to discuss it from the principle of cause and effect. as you said
Yes we need to apply rational method in such a case.
So now, we are going to confine ourselves to the rational way of thinking and the principle of cause and effect. I want to point out that the mind can arrive at definate facts when applying this principle.
So as an example, If you and I went on a rocky mountain (maybe for a trip) which is surrounded by other giagantic mountains and on our way we heard an echo of a sound. So both of us heard, " Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello" and this is due to the echo.
Both of us would arrive at the same conclusion, by using the cause and effect principle, that there was a 1st cause which was the starting point and that there was nothing before this first cause ie it was independent from any cause.
So even though none of us saw the person who yelled "hello", we know for a fact that there had to be a starting point ie the first hello sound and this would not be open to interpretation.
So now if someone asked the question, " what caused the first hello sound", We would respond that there was nothing before that sound and it was the 1st cause. So there was a starting point and it made a chain of sounds.
So now when we say that the universe had to be created by a 1st cause, that first cause has to be the starting point and there was nothing before it and this is consistent with the mind and the cause and effect principle.
so even the communists recognised that there had to be a starting point which is eternal and uncaused and foe them it was matter.
What are your views regarding the above
Thanks
[/QUOTE]
Thanx for positive arguments. I agree to the conclusion presented by you of your own example. The cause of so many Hello's is definately only the one in this example. But I have doubts in applicability of same conclusion to all the universal problems. But for discussion to proceed, I am ready to suppose the applicability of same conclusion in the problem of "Universe Creation". So I suppose that Universe was created by the 1st cause and this cause was the starting point.
Looking for your further arguments.
chandigarh,
Seems to me that people are trying to tell you in their own explanation why they believe, however you do not find their answer acceptable and thus ask again why a person believes. I believe the only satisfactory answer to you will be for one to say, "I dont believe." Tell me what answer you find satisfactory/acceptable for those that have faith? Only then will I tell you my answer. smile
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ramyssysIX: *
God is **the* reality and so is the faith on God
Faith on God is as tangible as anything
Its the difference between the right and the wrong
The distance between heaven and hell
The demarkation between the good and the evil
[/QUOTE]
do you belileve people who suffer in this earth are punished
by god reagrdless of faith?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
chandigarh,
Seems to me that people are trying to tell you in their own explanation why they believe, however you do not find their answer acceptable and thus ask again why a person believes. I believe the only satisfactory answer to you will be for one to say, "I dont believe." Tell me what answer you find satisfactory/acceptable for those that have faith? Only then will I tell you my answer. smile
[/QUOTE]
Munni good analysis! thats what I think !
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
do you belileve people who suffer in this earth are punished
by god reagrdless of faith?
[/QUOTE]
just a corection;
we Muslims don't belive in 'god' but we do believe in ** God** ...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do you believe?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Thanx for positive arguments. I agree to the conclusion presented by you of your own example. The cause of so many Hello's is definately only the one in this example. But I have doubts in applicability of same conclusion to all the universal problems. But for discussion to proceed, I am ready to suppose the applicability of same conclusion in the problem of "Universe Creation". So I suppose that Universe was created by the 1st cause and this cause was the starting point.
Looking for your further arguments.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your reply
Before we proceed i wanted to ask you regarding the comment you made, which was,
The cause of so many Hello's is definately only the one in this example. But I have doubts in applicability of same conclusion to all the universal problems
Why do you have doubts? Are we not applying the cause and effect principle which is decisive?
Also is there a factual example where you can show me where there is an unlimited amount of causes and where there is no first cause?
Anybody who uses there senses to observe the world around us will always see this universal law of cause and effect.
But it would be interesting to hear your viewpoint
M.Ali
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do you believe?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *
Thanks for your reply
Before we proceed i wanted to ask you regarding the comment you made, which was,
The cause of so many Hello's is definately only the one in this example. But I have doubts in applicability of same conclusion to all the universal problems
Why do you have doubts? Are we not applying the cause and effect principle which is decisive?
Also is there a factual example where you can show me where there is an unlimited amount of causes and where there is no first cause?
Anybody who uses there senses to observe the world around us will always see this universal law of cause and effect.
But it would be interesting to hear your viewpoint
M.Ali
[/QUOTE]
there is some supreme being even help bacteria we try to fight
with antibiotics develop resistant by produsing enzymes agianst
the antibiotics. who programed the even the aids virus to cheat
the imunity?so there is some mysterious force that we dont understand
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
chandigarh,
Seems to me that people are trying to tell you in their own explanation why they believe, however you do not find their answer acceptable and thus ask again why a person believes. I believe the only satisfactory answer to you will be for one to say, "I dont believe." Tell me what answer you find satisfactory/acceptable for those that have faith? Only then will I tell you my answer. smile
[/QUOTE]
Actually, if you did read the posts, people were trying to pick holes in my (non) belief.
I am not looking for a satisfactory answer. That was never the point of the thread anyway. I am just asking, 'why?'
Your turn... :)
Chd
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ?: *
just a corection;
we Muslims don't belive in 'god' but we do believe in * God** ...
[/QUOTE]
And the difference is?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chandigarh: *
Actually, if you did read the posts, people were trying to pick holes in my (non) belief.
I am not looking for a satisfactory answer. That was never the point of the thread anyway. I am just asking, 'why?'
Your turn... :)
Chd
[/QUOTE]
I did read the posts, and regardless of the fact that others are trying to pick holes, it doesnt take away from the fact that you may be as well.
If the point of your thread is not to find an answer you find satisfactory, why did you tell a poster that responded with her reasoning, that its essentially not good enough or not the type of answer you were looking for?
For your reference:
Sholay:
I have a problem with your "CHOICE" argument though
Fallacious argument really (imho). Please reread what ou have said.
The only part that does make sense is that people believe (or not) as to what they are comfortable with.
Acceptable reason, but one I personally do not like. Its like a government/authority saying "Ignorance is Bliss" as people would rather be blissful than vexed.
OK, if anyone has actually read all this stuff. the question is:
"Why do those who believe, believe?"
Please try to answer that (questioning my beliefs is secondary).
You go on to say this argument of sholay is fallacious, you dont like it, and then you re-ask the question, as if nobody has actually read your question prior to your re-asking.
I'd say this is proof enough that you are looking for an answer acceptable to only yourself. smile
null
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
For your reference:
Sholay:
You go on to say this argument of sholay is fallacious, you dont like it, and then you re-ask the question, as if nobody has actually read your question prior to your re-asking.
[/QUOTE]
But then how many people actually answered ?
[QUOTE]
I'd say this is proof enough that you are looking for an answer acceptable to only yourself. smile
[/QUOTE]
Ok, Sholay said something like "However, in answer to your query, of why does one believe? The answer is very simple. CHOICE. We choose to believe or not to believe. Everyone ponders over Creation and then makes that decision to Believe in what they feel comfortable with. Even you believe. Not the same as us, but you still believe that their is no God based on your pondering."
Sure, you have a choice. But is that it? What I wanted to know was, why that choice? She said " people believe what they are comfortable with", and that did answer my question. I acknowledged that in my post.(Even though I may not agree)
[QUOTE]
I'd say this is proof enough that you are looking for an answer acceptable to only yourself. smile
[/QUOTE]
Do you still stand by the above? Now quit fudging and gmme yer answer. grin
Chd
ps: suppose I was "looking for an answer acceptable to only yourself", (which, excuse me, I am not), it would still be besides the point, wouldn't it ? Your turn. :)
If you are asking a person why they believe what they do, you dont rebuttal with "i find the argument fallacious." What is the point of this statement if infact you were simply looking for an answer? Why does one have to dig further, sholay answered, and that was that.
Yes, I do believe you are looking for an answer that satisfies you, eventhough you claim you are not. Why? Because apart from what you stated above to sholay, you havent given me the answer that I asked for, which is, what answer you would find acceptable for a person of faith.
When you do, then I will believe that you are genuinely interested in my answer. Until then, I wont.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
If you are asking a person why they believe what they do, you dont rebuttal with "i find the argument fallacious." What is the point of this statement if infact you were simply looking for an answer? Why does one have to dig further, sholay answered, and that was that.
Yes, I do believe you are looking for an answer that satisfies you, eventhough you claim you are not. Why? Because apart from what you stated above to sholay, you havent given me the answer that I asked for, which is, what answer you would find acceptable for a person of faith.
When you do, then I will believe that you are genuinely interested in my answer. Until then, I wont.
[/QUOTE]
LOL, storm in a teacup!!
Sholay wrote, "The answer is CHOICE". My fault here, I should have considered her qualifier too. I said that saying "Choice is the answer" is fallacious, as its like saying '2+2=Canada'. The qualifier ansewrd my question.
" I asked for, which is, what answer you would find acceptable for a person of faith. "
eh? Anything really. Even if you said "Coz my Abba said so" or whatever. I don't see how acceptability or unacceptability comes into this at all...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chandigarh: *
Anything really. Even if you said "Coz my Abba said so" or whatever. I don't see how acceptability or unacceptability comes into this at all...
[/QUOTE]
I do.
My answer: Coz my Abba said so.