Why do we say Shias are non muslims

Again, as I said in another post, by shia claims that wahi was supposed to come to Hazrat Ali...., I get stumped on this thought. From the Shia belief, it doesn't seem like we are following the righ God. If God was not able to protect his message and was not able to ensure that the right person get it, was he or is he the "All Mighty" we really believe he is? Rest of the discussion on other differences is of much minor nature. Our God, it appears, is nothing more then a farce, by Shia claims.

Another thing and let me put it this way: You want to become my friend but REALLY bad mouth my closest friends and my daughter then how close will I let to come to me or what would I feel about you? You know what I mean by this, right?

It makes me wonder....

I want to know (Sherraz, sherybaba, and other shia's)..that :

do you or do you not believe on the completion of Quran???


Yesterday is history,
Tommorow is a mystery,
Today is a gift,
That's why we call it PRESENT!

[quote]
Originally posted by X_Communist:
**I want to know (Sherraz, sherybaba, and other shia's)..that :

do you or do you not believe on the completion of Quran???

**
[/quote]

This IS what is wrong with you SUNNIS You doubt Allahs word when He says that

"He personally took the Garantee of Quran" SO HOW CAN SHIAS CHANGE IT?

COME out of you stupidity and dont EVER doubt Allahs word!

Saleem,
These things you say are all false and Have have no Relation with the Shia faith!

When I ask for proof from Shia books about All that you guys are labeling us with Everyone sits Quiet like Idiots!!

This is all nonsense and NO ONE DARE DOUBT ALLAH WHEN HE SAYS THE QURAN WONT CHANGE UNTIL QYAMAT!


OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS

(3:193)

yawns
Don’t you guys ever get bored with saying the same thing again and again, to the same audience…?

I mean, this shia-sunni stuff, and the exact same arguments have been posted again and again and again (zillion times) in this board. Why don’t all of you do a search and then nod and shake your heads, then eat your dinner and do something useful. Do you really believe you are contributing something very original? Or do you think ppl have very short memories and they need to be reminded again and again else they will deviate… maaf karo bhai!

One guys walks in and posts something (which may be true but) which is totally inflammatory. Then few others join the band-wagon and contribute their own 2 cents worth to make it even more hostile. Then shias, and ahmadis and everyone else swings by and knock a few punches. Some ppl get warnings, the other calmly whistle and the circus goes on…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Come on guys…be creative, and be original. Atleast don’t consider everyone else who comes here to be permanently suffering from Alzheimer!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

Why can’t we make ‘tolerance’ a bee-word for us, and assure ourselves? It is entirely possible that we may be wrong ourselves.

i think its all a load of b.....ks. Allah didn't create Shiahs, choudreys, etc etc we as the people just started believing who was right and who was wrong. Theres only one god up there but millions of way of preaching to him. Look at the hindu's for example.. how many have they got, one for each problem?

We are spending way too much time labelling others as "INFIDELS" and "NON-MUSLIMS". Have you asked yourselves, Am I good muslim ? Do I help the poor ? Do I follow the 5 tennents of Islam ? etc. etc. etc.

Let others do what they may, because you will not answer for them but only for yourselves.

Allah(SWT) knows best

sherry baba…my intentions were CALM and COOL…you needn’t GET HUFFY and VIGOROUS over such questions…

it was a simple question, demanding a simple answer…so relax…

i would have to admit that sheraaz can handle his emotions better than you…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


Yesterday is history,
Tommorow is a mystery,
Today is a gift,
That’s why we call it PRESENT!

huh??..you must be mistaken..it was shah jahans reply not mine..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

Yes we do believe in the completion of Quran

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

and we also believe not a single word has been changed

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

. Our belief over Quran is exactly same as yours ..end of the story.

is sherazz still better than me in emotions ?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

sherazz ziada pehlo nahee..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

[This message has been edited by sherrybaba (edited November 15, 2000).]

onaizah this has be discussed so many times..i dont know why people have to spread false rumors about shias..its really stupid u know..shah jahan has much more knowledge and most of the time he gives references from Quran
we ask many times from sunnis to bring the references from shia books but nothing so far..u people say ur kalma is different and ur azaan is different..what makes u think ur way is the right way?
there is a reason shia have hatred towards some companions..first of all not all the people close to Prophet have to be good..2nd hamari in logo say koi zaat’ti dushmani to hai nahi..reading books and talking to scholer makes it obvious that these people werent good the Prophets family..there was this hadith in sahi that Prophet said If i were to take someone with me I would take Abu bakr..thats just a lie it doesnt make sense..how can Prophet not take Imam Ali over any other man..Imam Ali was the cousin of Prophet, husband of His daugther Fatima, was with him in every battle and won every battle for Prophet..Prophet lived with the father of Imam Ali(whom sunnis call kafir btw)..Abu bakr is the person who hurt Prophets beloved daughter Bibi Fatima..so how can it make sense..i dont have any problems with sunni..i just believe k sunni thoray behkay way hain thats all..if u really want to do some research then this might tell u what shia really r onaizah ji www.al-islam.org/guided
rather then spreading false rumors people check this book first, u will get most of ur answers..thank u

Sheeraz ji
thats totally different,,,,,

Hazarat Muhammad(SAW) said" maine tamam logon ka qarz utar diya hai magar Hazrat Abu Bakar ka qarz Allah utare ga....

2- Agar koi nabi hota mere baad to Hazrat Umar hota.

3- Hazrat Usman had married with 2 daughters of Our Prophet

My apologies to Sherrybaba..all those smileys lead me to conclude that ur not emotional at all (yearrite)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rotato.gif

.adn my post is redirected to SHAHJAHAN (who still is somewhere)…
Sheraaz,I’ve been using this service about a month now,and yes there have been many issues raised about shia/sunni…the thing is…every time sunni’s question the shia’s about their beliefs, teh shia’s (instead of providing proof, alone) retreat with comments like “suni behkuay hain” …have you ever seen any of my posts degrading the shia’ sect??? I just question..adn if you questioned me (as in teh sahi bukhari) I just ask you to get books and not use the internet as a resource, yet you continue to provide us with teh IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunity site…

as far as the beliefs go,i dont think the sects should’ve started in teh first place b/c one is wrong and the other is right…now..instead of creating such argurments as to who is wrong and whos right, why dont we follow the SIMPLE RELIGIOUS GUIDLINES AS TO HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES ON EARTH!! when this thought of guidelines comes up, differences arise..and then ppl of ‘opposition’ question each other,which i think is perfectly normal…if we really believe in our religious values,we should not get emotional over trying to explain it…


Yesterday is history,
Tommorow is a mystery,
Today is a gift,
That’s why we call it PRESENT!

onaiza i expected a better reply from u..too bad
i have provided the links to YOUR BUKHARI..i dont need to buy bukhari in order to prove somone wrong..and madam these links were given to me by ur fellow sunni cool dude..all these sunni boys make up stories but they dont have any references..i always provide u references..just admit it please
and bout the al-islam.org/guided ..this person was a sunni SCHOLER..he was not an average muslim like us..so its basically how he got enlightened..instead of saying things bout that site..it would be wise to check it out once..

cool dude is a wise person in this matter..he said he would read NAHJUL BALAGHA before commenting on it..take it easy

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

““this proves nothing unfortunately””

maximboy i advise u to get a part time job as a stand up comedian

provide refrences maximboy please

The Prophetic tradition: O Ali! You hold in relation to me the same position as Harun held in relation to Musa except that there will be no prophet after me

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
** This IS what is wrong with you SUNNIS You doubt Allahs word when He says that

"He personally took the Garantee of Quran" SO HOW CAN SHIAS CHANGE IT?
[Qoute][br]he is not saying that you guys have changed it, but asking if you belief that it is notcomplete? either u don't get the question or u are just trying to avoid answering it.so now, do u believe that hazrat usmans' goat ate 10 paras? or do u not,
[qoute]
[br]
COME out of you stupidity and dont EVER doubt Allahs word!
[qoute]*[br]
we are not doubting allah's word, but asking wether u doubt it or not? *
[br][qoute]
Saleem,
These things you say are all false and Have have no Relation with the Shia faith!

When I ask for proof from Shia books about All that you guys are labeling us with Everyone sits Quiet like Idiots!!
[qoute]*[br]
well , my best friend was a shia, we used to debate about this stuff all the time, but with out any result, but i did got him to plead to many things, like they have pics of hazrat hussain,and hasan,and ali in their bargahs, don't know if they are in front of them while praying, they sajda on rock or wood block from karbala, that their kalma is different,{i can write it for u if u want conformation}, and lots of many other things. so u can't deny that, now would u want to justify having paintings of hussain,hasan and ali (RT) in a place of worship? and other things....?
This is all nonsense and NO ONE DARE DOUBT ALLAH WHEN HE SAYS THE QURAN WONT CHANGE UNTIL QYAMAT!
*

[/quote]

from al-islam:
The disagreement about the caliphate should not be a source of division
between the two schools. Muslims agree that the caliphate of Abu Bakr came
through election by a limited number of people and was a surprise for all
other companions. By limited number, I mean, the majority of the prominent
companions of prophet had no knowledge of this election. Ali, Ibn Abbas,
Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Salman al-Farsi, Abu Dhar,
Ammar Ibn Yasir, Miqdad, Abdurrahman Ibn Owf were among those who were not
consulted nor even informed of. Even Umar confessed to the fact that the
election of Abu Bakr was without consultation of Muslims. (See sahih al-
Bukhari, Arabic-English, Tradition 8.817)

this is nothing but bullshit, u guys want evidence, here it is (translation)from the history of islam for BA: when prophet PBUH died, the ansar in madina got together and talking of succession after him PBUH,seeing that this might have caused a break up in islam, so he took umar,abu ubaida RT and took
them to the seat of the ansar. he then told them the poeple there that if we now start a fight over succession, then islam will break in two sects, and prophet PBUH will never forgive us in the hereafter. and he presented umar and abu ubaida for the chalipahthood. but umar RT said that no, abu bakr RT was the only person to have ever lead a jamaat during the life of the prophet PBUH, and thus he should be the one who rules after the death of prophet PBUH;

The Shi'a scholars say that a divinely appointed Imam is sinless and
Allah does not grant such position to the sinful. The Sunni scholars
(including Mu'tazilites) say that Imam can be sinful as he is
appointed by other than Allah. Even if he is tyrant and sunk in sins
(like in the case of Muawiyah and Yazid), the majority of the scholars from
the schools of Hanbali, Shafi'i, and Maliki discourage people to rise against
that Caliph. They think that they should be preserved although they disagree
with the evil actions.

from al-islam:
The Shia say that Imam must possess above all such qualities as knowledge,
bravery, justice, wisdom, piety, love of God etc. The Sunni scholars say it
is not necessary. A person inferior in these qualities may be elected in
preference to a person having all these qualities of superior degree.

if u believe this, then u are the biggest idiot in the world, for a imaam, you have to be superior in islamic knowledge and if u have knowledge of islam and fear of allah, then u will be all the stuff described above, so if this is what shias go by then what can i say... the site says it better than i can, that they are stupid.

mr gladiator if u want to prove somthing u first have to start making sense ok..stick to one topic and then talk bout only that ok..if u want to copy somthing from a source then do it so other could understand it also..
u people can go ahead and believe that even Prophet could make mistakes..shia strictly believe that Prophet , Bibi Fatima, and our 12 imam are masomeen, meaning they cant make mistakes even unintentionally ok
Prophet said many times and i wrote here many times that Imam Ali will be ur next khalifa, but these khilafat hungry people rather debate bout next khalifa then attend Prophet's funeral..tells alot about them

Stupid topic again… how in this world can you suggest that shia’s are kafirs ?

Who makes that decision allah or dumb people like …

NEways, islam is not somthing which if YOU dont protect will disintegrate or something … its the greatest religion in the world (the only religon in my opionion

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

We can’nt judge anyone, as long as they believe in the holy prophet and allah being one they are considered muslims…

I remember a hadith in which one of the companion of the prophet says that once a muslim killed his kafir enemy even though the kafir said the kalima at the last moment when he had lost the battle… feeling that the kafir just said the kalima to escape death the muslim man killed him anyways upon hearing this Hazart Muhammed PBUH got angry at the person and asked him did you know his heart ? if not then how could you have juged him ??

Moral of the story dont judge people … specially in religion … becuase god is strong enough to tackle all the hypcrotis… so we can’nt assume the role of god…!

Simple as that… do namaz mind your own bussiness and let the shia, ismalies, ahamadies, sunnis, wahabis, be what they want to be…

allah can protect islam … because he is all knowing…!


Give mushraf a chance!

[This message has been edited by Pakistani-NotPaki (edited November 15, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Pakistani-NotPaki (edited November 15, 2000).]

Gladiator Jee!

I have told this coutless times but I'll say it once more!

Shias do not pray to our Imamas nor the Prophet, Got it!

Shias Do pray on a Stone(so did the prophet but I cant find that hadith yet)

Hazrat Usmans goat ate All the sunni scholars brains if you ask me!(meaning Yes we belive that quran is complete)

Pics are ussually made in pakistan matirial and are diffinatly haram and In the Imambargha I go to (here pak and canada)there are none and if I meet this friend of yours I'll talk to him personally!

let start with sunnis now you have to admit this!

Sunni added on As-salat ul khair-ul-minal noum in the fajar Azan and this is not a sunnah of the prophet SOOOo your call to namaz is wrong!

Whlie paying namaz when Sura al-fathia is finished all you say ameen which again is not a sunnah of the prophet!

hazart umer being next prophet?
Most of the above mentioned things are by him sooooo again he is responable for all your sunni inovation mess!


OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS

(3:193)

Sheeraz taasub ki ainak utar kar dekho, personal comments paas karne se kuch nahi hota......

baat karo shias sunni ki meri job wagaira ki fikar na karo

maximboy please provide me some references pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

just provide me the references of the first 2 things u wrote above
u know i provide u with SUNNI references, so u should provide me shia references..but i bet u cant even provide sunni references abou those 2 things u wrote above